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United States2095 Posts
So I've already played a few games with the new patch out. I find the new select larva addition that makes you choose eggs if you have no larva left is the worst mechanic to add. I feel like instead of taking Zerg into the world of SC2, it brings it back down to SC .5. Becuase you can't click S and recieve a larva quickly, I feel like you can't get a continuous stream of drones produced. I feel like I have to know exactly when my larva will pop so that I can get a drone in. If Blizzard was trying to make Zerg easier, I'd just like to point out that for me it makes it ALOT harder. Do any other zergs feel this way? Have any zergs found a way to get it back to the old way, or at least make it less damaging to macro?
I have no problems with the hotkey changes even though they mess up my macro, because I feel like I'll get used to them in time. I feel like I could eventually get to getting my larva timing down Juuuustttttt right, but I might just switch races before then. So I'm somewhat complaining here, but what I'm really trying to ask is, does anyone have any ideas on how this won't annoy us zergs ?
Thanks for all of the support everyone. Thanks alot Zelniq for making this wonderful thread on Battle.net for us. Battle.net Petition Everyone is welcome to post there with their agreement or diagreement with this change. Hopefully we will get Blizzard's attention. Roach nerfs, hydra nerfs, infestor buffs everything with balance is fine. But the zerg will not stand for messed up Larva!!!!!
Good News ! Also, the corresponding problem with currently-morphing Larva (eggs) being selected when you Select Larva with your Hatchery/Lair/Hive is also being addressed, but will not be a part of the fix for Larva cancellation. We're hoping this one will be covered in the patch following the Larva fix.
This quote is from Scroll Down To Blizzards Post
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Judging by the games I've seen of you, you've probably earned the right to complain. Yeah, it's pretty annoying and unfortunate. I suppose that makes up for the canceled eggs thing not killing the larvae, though I'd like to see both revert to the old way. It seems like a very unnecessary change, and I can't think of an upside to it.
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Yeah, sometimes I used to spam S until a larva was made. Now I'll have to press 5S 5S 5S.
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United States2095 Posts
Ender, yeah the canceled eggs thing never really bothered me, I find it kind of weird u can cancel an egg. In real life if you have an egg and u want it to go back inside the chicken... well yeah. And yes I know SC isn't real life. =)
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Agreed. Although with the other ridiculous zerg buffs like the cancel egg with no penalty I can't feel like we can complain too much. I almost feel like they did it just to solve the problem of hitting v with no larva and building the overlord drop ability instead. Hopefully they have better reasons haha
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On April 23 2010 12:27 Sheth wrote:
Ender, yeah the canceled eggs thing never really bothered me, I find it kind of weird u can cancel an egg. In real life if you have an egg and u want it to go back inside the chicken... well yeah. And yes I know SC isn't real life. =)
Thank god. I wouldn't want to see something puke everywhere to create more eggs.
On April 23 2010 12:28 MementoMori wrote:
Agreed. Although with the other ridiculous zerg buffs like the cancel egg with no penalty I can't feel like we can complain too much. I almost feel like they did it just to solve the problem of hitting v with no larva and building the overlord drop ability instead. Hopefully they have better reasons haha
I wish they hadn't done that with the eggs. It won't change my game play much at all, but it will definately feed the "Zerg is ezmode" whiners.
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I totally agree. Change the hotkey for the overlord upgrade, not the mechanic.
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It is pretty screwy 
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(edited out, dunno how to delete)
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i havent got to try this new patch yet but i see the new larva inject thing and this select larva mechanic messin me up.
if it throws me off its a great time to learn a new race atleast. I was at 1700pts with z and if i tried to off race i got rolled so hard at that level lol
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i just played 2 games and i think my teammate is already tired of listening to me rant about egg selection :/
i keep seeing larvae ready to be morphed but it's really just a couple of eggs chillin' there. ugh.
at least we can select -> esc if we want to cancel right?
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Stop whining!
Kidding, its really annoying because it makes selecting a larvae right as it spawns much more difficult. On a side note, thanks for posting this it reminded me of ur ID.
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United States2095 Posts
Nps Ostojiy =)! Add me if you want again, I'm Sheth.root.
As a side point, to all you zerg users the best new thing I've figured out to make this feel a little bit better is : I click the number for my hatch and click s, if I see eggs I do 1s again quickly, and you slightly get used to the fact that you have to watch for either "eggs" or "larva" screen. Its not that helpful, but its something!
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Oh god ! I havent thought about that. That´s ridiculous. I did sdsdsdsdsdsdsd all the time till my larva spawns. For drone 14 all the f´in time man...oh god..
And why the hell the changed the hotkeys ? Has anyone complained about this ?
I can see me constantly hitting R and spawning no larvae at all..this will probably last for weeks..
Im really upset about this atm..
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I very much dislike this change, it was un-needed, and badly thought out, cmon blizzard, get your head out of your ass and actually play zerg a couple times...
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I agree that's a change that takes adjustment, but you don't need to know anything about your larva timing. The select larva icon on the hatchery tells you the amount of larvae you have. It does mean you have to look at your bottom right if you're unsure if you have a larva or not but it's better than spamming 4s4s4s4s until you see there's a larva
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i agree, this mechanic is insanely annoying. i'm used to spamming s continuously to make units as quickly as possible. i honestly thought the spawn larva ability where they popped 1 at a time so if you spammed s you would only get like 2 of them until you re-targetted the hatchery was annoying too. what is the purpose of that spawn larva mechanic or this new one? both are idiotic if you ask me.
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On April 23 2010 12:25 Attica wrote:
Yeah, sometimes I used to spam S until a larva was made. Now I'll have to press 5S 5S 5S.
Same here, I hate it
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Yeah I hate it, I accidentally re-rallied my cocoons because of this -.- the way it was before was fine IMO.
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Selecing eggs with select larva is EXTREMELY EXTREMELY annoying
+1
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I agree, I found it really annoying to keep selecting my eggs, I liked the way it was so I could spam s.
I don't mind the hotkey change much, but I just got my beta 3 days ago so it wasn't really ingrained in my muscle memory =]
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United States7166 Posts
i agree this is a *very serious* issue, more serious than anything else for zerg right now.
if they really want a way to select eggs right now, add a hotkey specifically for that, but this has to go.
if you dont understand play a game of zerg and you'll quickly see the problem. every time you're waiting for larvae to spawn, which is obviously a lot, it totally screws with your gameplay, and not something you can just 'get used to' like hotkey changes.
I wish a mod would move this to SC2 general and change the title to something like "Serious issue with Select Larva"
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It's horrible and there's no possible scenario where I would rather have this mechanic than the old one. I posted about it on battle.net. I haven't seen one post that favours the new system.
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Sincerely hope they change this back in the next patch...
I haven't thought it through completely, but why would they not just change the hotkey for the upgrade? Seems like a way less intrusive to fix the problem.
About the hotkey change: I guess they needed to change this to avoid conflict. W was one of the global hotkeys. If you were to neural parasite a probe and build a warpgate there could be some conflicts.
I agree it's very annoying when hotkeys are changed. However, and I use this sentence with caution, we're still in beta and this is probably the only time in the game's lifetime where they can get away with it. I don't see they doing a change like this when the game has gone gold.
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On the bright side it now requires more apm, 100% more. WOW what a change! 
But seriously yeah it's annoying and the only positive thing about it is that now you wont be listening to the zerg voice saying "we need more mineraalllzzzzz".
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Ya this is a pain no more spamming to instantly make a unit when the larva spawns
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Add my voice to the chorus. This is an absolutely horrible change. Even the Spawn Larva button shows the number of eggs and larva - the number is meaningless. :\
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On April 23 2010 14:28 Feefee wrote:
I agree that's a change that takes adjustment, but you don't need to know anything about your larva timing. The select larva icon on the hatchery tells you the amount of larvae you have. It does mean you have to look at your bottom right if you're unsure if you have a larva or not but it's better than spamming 4s4s4s4s until you see there's a larva \
the select larva icon now tracks eggs as well as larva. WTF right?
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I'd be pleased if the "Select Larva" button looked like an egg whenever it would only select eggs.
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complete garbage changes.
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On April 23 2010 16:41 codewarrior wrote:
I'd be pleased if the "Select Larva" button looked like an egg whenever it would only select eggs.
No decent player will ever want to look at those buttons.
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I AGREE WITH MASTER SHETH, REQUIRES US TO SPAM TWO KEYS CONSTANTLY TO MAKE A DRONE AND DELAYSSS, JUST CHANGE THE HOTKEY FOR THE VENTRAL SACKS NO NEED TO DO THIS USELESS EGGY SELECTION THANKSSSSSSS
User was temp banned for this post.
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seriously, why didn't they just make ventral sacks K?
I think I can get used to spawn larvae being V and no more wireframe macro eventually, but the selecting eggs and counting eggs and larvae together thing is immensely terrible.
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On April 23 2010 15:32 NeoLearner wrote:
Sincerely hope they change this back in the next patch...
About the hotkey change: I guess they needed to change this to avoid conflict. W was one of the global hotkeys. If you were to neural parasite a probe and build a warpgate there could be some conflicts.
I agree it's very annoying when hotkeys are changed. However, and I use this sentence with caution, we're still in beta and this is probably the only time in the game's lifetime where they can get away with it. I don't see they doing a change like this when the game has gone gold.
But "W was used only for burrow, they could change burrow to B or U whatever but they did mess everything up and select larva system is RETARDED right now.
Burrow W>B
Spawn Larva R>R
Ventral Sacks V> eg. X or any other key
Select larva - old style.
Problem solved but no, Blizzard knows best.
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Going protoss until they do something about it. I'm around 700 games down with zerg, no way I'm going through this bullshit. A bunch of my very high level zerg friends are going to do the same as well, when you are in the middle of a goddamn ESL tournament or something you don't have the time to count sheep while waiting for the right moment to spam your production of units, you do it automatically and mechanically and it works, period.
F this, it's the first time I actually rant about something since this beta came out, I got in with the first wave, been very patient with every single change they made since it's a beta, but this? really? V for queen macro is ok but the larvae? -_-
Sad panda going to bed, my 2cents etc...
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I played 36 games tonight and after a while you get used to it. It does end up making you click more when you're trying to get a larva that hasn't spawned yet. I feel like it was an unnecessary change since I never needed to select my eggs that often. Maybe other people do I dunno. Burrow changing to R really threw me for a loop and I haven't used it enough to get used to it yet so that's gonna take a while. Does anyone know what grid keybinds look like? I haven't checked yet.
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Yeah I didn't see the issue with it before, isn't it part of the zerg playstyle to lose a few games becasue they made that greedy round of drones?
It just feels werid to have that constructing larva there...and unnecessary!
please change this back blizzard!
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its very annoying. i have gotten used to the new key rebind for spawn larva from queen (a lot of V now in are buildings -.-)
makes u wonder if they really do test zerg, i think right now they focused on protoss/terrain.
the burrow change ....y??!?!?!?!!? i guess this is why the fucked up the queens spawn larva....srsly fucking pointless changes that annoy every zerg player..
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This HAS to be a bug. It doesn't even make sense that "Select LARVAE" button would also select EGGS.
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I play random and I have to say I'm also pretty annoyed of it. So now I just decided to bunk up some Protoss only games for a while, and baby, its been good 
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it's pretty awful T_T and the revert to larva is pretty annoying to because it makes 6/7 pool so much stronger T_T
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On April 23 2010 16:03 Joga wrote:
Add my voice to the chorus. This is an absolutely horrible change. Even the Spawn Larva button shows the number of eggs and larva - the number is meaningless. :\
lol omg, does blizzard even think before patching? honestly they gotta be kidding, this is like ten steps backwards in terms of UI. my faith in blizz was already low, but I still couldnt have imagined that theyd do such a terrible, terrible job.
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I really dislike this change too. Hopefully when they get rid of being able to cancel shit for no cost they'll change this back too.
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On April 23 2010 16:03 Joga wrote:
Add my voice to the chorus. This is an absolutely horrible change. Even the Spawn Larva button shows the number of eggs and larva - the number is meaningless. :\
It does? Because I would think this makes it more likely to be a bug than a "working as intended". I see no reason for this number to show, except a bug in some routine which now handles larvae and eggs the same...
I do hope they realize this is annoying and patch it next time. Works case scenario it was a bug, but they actually like it
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can someone please log a bug for this...
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they should just remove this crap, add a new icon and name it "Select Eggs"
i cant even imagine how annoying it must be for z users not being able to spam s all the time
blizzard is moving in the right direction in terms of balance but they r really sucky at this kind of stuff
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I guess it would be helpful only if i were to be cancelling a bunch of eggs but how often does that happen, there should be a separate key for select all eggs.. it was better before
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The new patch makes zerg macro soooo hard 
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Was reaaly better before imo
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these changes make me not want to play zerg anymore. burrow should of been moved to V, and inject could stay as R. removing wireframe casting is a big pain in the ass for me, i used it all the time, mainly for inject larva, but i also found it really useful for overlord drops, you cast drop on each overlord wireframe, so they drop while moving. i havent verified if this behavior has been removed.
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I know! It used to be while spamming buttons early game, waiting for larvae used to be 5sssssssssssssssssss. Now it's 5s5s5s5s5s5s5s5s5s5s5s5s which is the most annoying thing in the world. And you can't judge it based on the larvae you SEE, cause sometimes the eggs get in the way. This makes it really hard to scout and pump drones too. Bad move bliz
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Slightly off topic, but has anyone else been researching overlord transport accidentally when trying to inject? I'll keep mashing v click hatch, v click hatch and at some point, I must be out of energy and I click a hatch and press v, and I never even notice that I've upgraded transport.
Also with the egg thing, that really sucks a lot. It requires too much visual inspection and too many key presses to get your drones or units out on time. It is as if blizzard has no zerg players. I can't believe they'd ever do something like this to the other races.
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I agree with your OP Sheth, on both points about the select larvae and hotkey changes. I think they made it select building units if there's no larvae because they assume you would want to quickly select your queued units to cancel them if need be. I would like it to go back as well, since I'm typically spamming "s" waiting for larvae to pop out. I'd rather they put in a new hotkey to select all queued units on a hatchery.
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i haven't been able to play the patch 9 yet, but wtf is this all about?
I read the patch notes, but I don't fully understand what the bitching is about.
Can someone explain this to me?
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On April 24 2010 00:41 Holaneko wrote:
i haven't been able to play the patch 9 yet, but wtf is this all about?
I read the patch notes, but I don't fully understand what the bitching is about.
Can someone explain this to me?
The 'select larva' button (hotkey 'S' by default) now selects all eggs if there are no larva. Previously, it would just select nothing, while leaving the hatchery selected (it worked this way in BW also). It is very annoying, because many people spam the 'S' key when they are waiting for larva, which no longer works.
Now you have to re-select the hatchery every time you want to 'check' if there are new larva at a hatchery. This means it takes twice as many actions to macro consistently.
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United States2095 Posts
Thanks BlasiuS, was just about to post that! =)
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Haven't tried out the new patch (so why am I posting here?)
But I'm not too worried about the implications of this, I tended to 5 sddd, 5szzz, 5sv and then manually position my units where I wanted them to rally to if it was not the default rally point.
Although the cancel drone larva accumulation glitch seems to be a bit of a bitch. Just wondering if there is a "Fair" counter to it as zerg, Terran should be able to wall in in time Toss maybe buggered.
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On April 24 2010 00:46 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 00:41 Holaneko wrote:
i haven't been able to play the patch 9 yet, but wtf is this all about?
I read the patch notes, but I don't fully understand what the bitching is about.
Can someone explain this to me? The 'select larva' button (hotkey 'S' by default) now selects all eggs if there are no larva. Previously, it would just select nothing, while leaving the hatchery selected (it worked this way in BW also). It is very annoying, because many people spam the 'S' key when they are waiting for larva, which no longer works. Now you have to re-select the hatchery every time you want to 'check' if there are new larva at a hatchery. This means it takes twice as many actions to macro consistently.
Hrm... I guess I have to try it out to see wut it really means...
I was thinking of switching to T, and may b this is that perfect chance!
But buff to Infestors look pretty yummy though...
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the more i think about it the more i think this may be intentional for s to select eggs, this is only if the other "cancel egg get larva back" is intentional as well...
i think its either both should be in or both should be out...
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I don't want to swear this change off immediately but I have absolutely no need to see how many eggs that I'm morphing in the larvae counter. I'd really like to hear from someone that has found some benefit to this. What am I missing?
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Feels to me like Blizzard is changing Sc2 for the bad by simply bloating it with features we don't want or need. Simplicity and logic provails, but they seem to fail at both.
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United States2095 Posts
@Delichus Blizzard has made 8 patches that I personally have loved. I don't even "hate" this one. Either way, dont' complain about Blizzard in this forum. Please.
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fortunately doesnt affect me since i always did 5sd 5sz or whatever.
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On April 24 2010 01:46 Sheth wrote:
@Delichus Blizzard has made 8 patches that I personally have loved. I don't even "hate" this one. Either way, dont' complain about Blizzard in this forum. Please.
Like I said they are adding "features" we don't want or need. Just like the one you're complaining about. Not sure what your aim was with that but you're indirectly complaining about Blizzard yourself. Sorry about the off-topic though.
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On April 24 2010 01:51 tenno wrote:probably been posted before, but this is what you get now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiFiQ6nI70Ai vote for just change this back to pre-patch 9 (cancel eggs = larva loss + hotkey adjustment
Yeah, I posted this alrdy on page 3. I wish that gets banned from every single tourny.
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On April 24 2010 01:36 Goincommando wrote:
I don't want to swear this change off immediately but I have absolutely no need to see how many eggs that I'm morphing in the larvae counter. I'd really like to hear from someone that has found some benefit to this. What am I missing?
After more games I've pushed in I found out that because you are able to cancel your eggs now, it is cool that you can get your eggs selected in the first place to cancel much faster, but I think it should be another hot key, in conjunction with S to show eggs. Also, when you select larvae from a certain hatchery, it doesn't show eggs from all of them, but just that hatch from what I can see. It was really annoying me trying to adjust my macro technique last night.
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My only gripe is that the eggs aren't spaced out enough for me to go through em and figure out what's inside.
It isn't very intuitive when all 3 eggs are clumped together and I can't look at them to see if I have an ovie going or not.
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United States2095 Posts
Tennu, Welmu and Two_DoWn, I'm talking about a different issue. Your both talking about the zergling early rush type larva bug. I'm talking about the OP. Feel free to read it if you want.
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On April 24 2010 07:42 Sheth wrote:
Tennu, Welmu and Two_DoWn, I'm talking about a different issue. Your both talking about the zergling early rush type larva bug. I'm talking about the OP. Feel free to read it if you want.
Umm, did you go to the link I clicked? It states in the second part of his answer that the selecting larvae going to egg thing is likely going to be addressed in the next full patch. I read the op, you didn't read my post.
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United States7166 Posts
gg we gotta wait for next patch for the selection fix... so prolly thurs/fri this coming week
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On April 23 2010 14:58 G4MR wrote:
Yeah I hate it, I accidentally re-rallied my cocoons because of this -.- the way it was before was fine IMO.
This.
I don't mind it selecting the eggs, but when the hotkey to rally the cocoons is the same key to make roaches... *shakes fist* I constantly rally my roaches to my queen (i spawn after using the larvae) and have to change it.
Mind you, I think the egg-select was unintended, because the larva count on the hatchery includes eggs. Probably some minor OO logic error =]
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On April 23 2010 17:27 CryGirl1921 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 15:32 NeoLearner wrote:
Sincerely hope they change this back in the next patch...
About the hotkey change: I guess they needed to change this to avoid conflict. W was one of the global hotkeys. If you were to neural parasite a probe and build a warpgate there could be some conflicts.
I agree it's very annoying when hotkeys are changed. However, and I use this sentence with caution, we're still in beta and this is probably the only time in the game's lifetime where they can get away with it. I don't see they doing a change like this when the game has gone gold. But "W was used only for burrow, they could change burrow to B or U whatever but they did mess everything up and select larva system is RETARDED right now. Burrow W>B Spawn Larva R>R Ventral Sacks V> eg. X or any other key Select larva - old style. Problem solved but no, Blizzard knows best.
nah, B is for build
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i fucking HATE this change. update burrow and your queen could get burrowed if you press R instead of V for the hotkey. happened to me multiple times.
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Terrible change imo, its really anoyying and its killing my zerg mojo. >.<
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United States2095 Posts
Two_Down I just read ur post again. Its talking about a different issue. The issue where u can make 12 zerglings in 1:55.
Ok I just finished reading every single post in that thread. The first 14 posts or so were about the issue about 12 zerglings. If you would have simply quoted the blizzard admin it would have been helpful. Still great news I'll put it in my OP, Thanks. Appreciate it! =)
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i never noticed this when i played yesterday, but i only had 2-3 games. Sounds annoying xD
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Agreed, stupid change.
I have yet to think of a single upside to this.
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I think they want less zerg players..
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I agree! Also... the little number on the bottom right of the larvae shows eggs and larvae now, so it makes it even more difficult to make decisions on the fly.
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On April 24 2010 13:24 Sheth wrote:
Two_Down I just read ur post again. Its talking about a different issue. The issue where u can make 12 zerglings in 1:55.
Ok I just finished reading every single post in that thread. The first 14 posts or so were about the issue about 12 zerglings. If you would have simply quoted the blizzard admin it would have been helpful. Still great news I'll put it in my OP, Thanks. Appreciate it! =)
NP. Yeah, prolly shoulda just done that.
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United States7166 Posts
heyyyyy this issue is resolved in the latest patch (tonight's patch).
and so was banelings/broodlords/overseers moving to rally points after morphing.
and obv the egg cancel exploit now just destroys the larvae
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yea, i hate that a lot.
Zelniq. sweet sig. love that part in the movie, it is sooooooo funny.
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i extreamly hate this , i'll be constantly having my hatch selected and keep hitting s to select the larva so much and hit d or r or what ever for unit and then click sometthing else come back and nothing happend the unit was never made i do it again and watch and the larva never get selected. this is really fucking me up right at the beguining when i hit s d for my 7th drone and then i do split and would like to send ovie immedatly to scout but i have to go back to hatch and hit s 20 times before it selects larva then send scout out and now im five seconds behind already because of this. really needs to be changed.
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EPT
