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Did some quick testing on LT by myself, here are some approximations for zerg rush timings. (don't ask me how the defending z/p/t base looks if doing a standard build). I'd assume terran can have wall 90% done with a marine out, 1 zealot chronoed out, or zerg can possibly have lings.
But anyways, here are the variations I have used:
6pool
LT 9vX
Pool @ 0:47
Build 2 Drones
Pool Finish @ 1:53 Make 3x2 lings
Ling hatched @ 2:18
Arrivals
12 o'clock ramp @ 2:48
3 o'clock ramp @ 3:01
6 o'clock ramp @ 2:58
8pool
LT 9vX
Pool @ 0:59
Build 2 Drones
Build 1 Lord
Pool/Lord Finish @ 2:05 Make 3x2 lings
Ling Hatched/Build Queen @ 2:30
Arrivals:
12 o'clock ramp @ 3:00
3 o'clock ramp @ 3:13
6 o'clock ramp @ 3:10
Queen Hatch @ 3:20
10pool
LT 9vX
Pool @ 1:15
Build 1 Drone
Extractor trick - Build 1 Drone
Build 1 Lord
Pool/Lord Finish @ 2:20 Make 3x2 lings
Ling Hatched/Build Queen @ 2:45
Arrivals:
12 o'clock ramp @ 3:16
3 o'clock ramp @ 3:30
6 o'clock ramp @ 3:27
Queen Hatch @ 3:30
if someone wants to export this to Likiwiki, feel free.
EDIT- Plexa made this nice chart based on timings for every map/positions vs protoss
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Those statistics are pretty similar to mine.
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On March 31 2010 13:12 Thamoo wrote:
Those statistics are pretty similar to mine.
care to post?
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i was going to do this but since you did it for me, you have my thanks 
very useful information
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On March 31 2010 13:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 13:12 Thamoo wrote:
Those statistics are pretty similar to mine. care to post?
I didn't keep them, and they were much less detailed. I just did a 6 pool, a 8 pool and a 10 pool on blistering sand and noted the times of arrival. And the generalised results were that 6 pool arrives about 15 seconds faster than 8 pool and about 30 seconds faster than 10 pool. Give or take 2-3 seconds.
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On March 31 2010 13:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 13:12 Thamoo wrote:
Those statistics are pretty similar to mine. care to post?
I didn't keep them, and they were much less detailed. I just did a 6 pool, a 8 pool and a 10 pool on blistering sand and noted the times of arrival. And the generalised results were that 6 pool arrives about 15 seconds faster than 8 pool and about 30 seconds faster than 10 pool. Give or take 2-3 seconds.
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I just did a standard 15 pool, and noticed that the pool finished at about 3:10 with 17 drones, so it is possible to defend/delay the early lings long enough for your own lings and still be ahead on drones. Spine, Queen, & Roach Warren finish about a minute later.
So if you don't scout any rush, you can throw down 2 extractors to make lings before cap and cancel them in a pinch. Then you'll have 17 drones and 4 lings.
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^ Wouldn't that mean that its not possible to have lings in time against a 6 pool? They arrive at 2:48 (worst case scenario on LT, would probably be worst on SoW) and you're pool finishes at 3:10, which seems pretty late.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Heh, I can do you one better Charlie
gimme like 10mins to type it up
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On March 31 2010 13:35 Thamoo wrote:
^ Wouldn't that mean that its not possible to have lings in time against a 6 pool? They arrive at 2:48 (worst case scenario on LT, would probably be worst on SoW) and you're pool finishes at 3:10, which seems pretty late.
typically, if I scout an early pool I've 13pool in response. Pretty sure a 13 pool goes down at around 1:30-1:40
Which means that your pool and lings should be done just as his lings are getting there.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Pool timings, with time that it takes the lings to get to the ramp AND zealot warp in times for 10gate and 12gate. Moral of the story? 9 pool is the best fast pool build (less economy sacrifice, and the build works without extractor trick) and the lings still get to the p base really really fast. Steppes of War is the best map for this.
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On March 31 2010 14:33 Plexa wrote:Pool timings, with time that it takes the lings to get to the ramp AND zealot warp in times for 10gate and 12gate. Moral of the story? 9 pool is the best fast pool build (less economy sacrifice, and the build works without extractor trick) and the lings still get to the p base really really fast. Steppes of War is the best map for this.
nice, so the 9pool build is what exactly?
pool
drone
overlord
drone
3x2 lings
queen
etc
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Yup something like that.
9pool
8drone
9drone
overlord
3x2 lings
2x1 lings
queen
drones as normal
Or something like that, it's a pretty simple build to play so if the order is wrong don't blame me lol. But seriously, fast pool on steppes is practically imbalanced.
Furthermore, the close air distance mains on Lotem/Metal aren't the shortest rush time - hence if you ovie scout there and 9drone scout to the "close" position (the other close base  ) you can still get off the 9 pool rush without too much economic harm to yourself while maintaining efficiency. If you happen to get lucky with them at a close position then chances are your lings will arrive before zeal.
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Just tried the 6 pool rush against terran on Blistering sands. Got 6 zergling in his base just before his barracks had finished the wall in. Destroyed all his SCV's and won the game :D
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On March 31 2010 14:53 Skroog wrote:
Just tried the 6 pool rush against terran on Blistering sands. Got 6 zergling in his base just before his barracks had finished the wall in. Destroyed all his SCV's and won the game :D
that sounds like the guy was late tbh, I 6pooled a guy from 12 to 3 LT without him scouting me and his wall was pretty much done and had a marine out.
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On March 31 2010 16:38 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 14:53 Skroog wrote:
Just tried the 6 pool rush against terran on Blistering sands. Got 6 zergling in his base just before his barracks had finished the wall in. Destroyed all his SCV's and won the game :D that sounds like the guy was late tbh, I 6pooled a guy from 12 to 3 LT without him scouting me and his wall was pretty much done and had a marine out.
I would have to agree with charlie there, most times by the time you get a 6 pool out the guy has is sending his scout so either you go down the middle and get seen with all your drones and lings moving out or you take the long way and hope he hasn't started on his 2nd sd to finish off wall.
It's actually easier to go un-noticed to terran or toss on a 4 player map and i've found to have better success rate when it's a full surprise
On steps or war and crap i've gotten terran off gaurd but that's about it.
Else 6-8 pool works much better aganist protoss imo. they usually never guard a surround and you always get there before the first zealot with some clutch micro you'll win esp if they only went 1 gate in going for a fast cybercore
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Am i reading that graph wrong or it means that almost in every situation a P can have a zealot in time without using a chrono boost?
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Thanks for all the stats work, this has made me consider adding a few more 8 or 10 pools into my repetoire, especially against Protoss. I've never done it previously, but 8 pool rushing a 1gate>Robo build without wrecking my economy too bad seems like a great idea, especially since I tend to fend them off primarily with speedlings anyway.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/timing_graph.png)
