I was wondering if there was any difference in the build time of a gateway compared to the recharge time of the warpgates. It turns out the warpgate recharge time is actually less then the gateway build time. All these figures were recorded using a stopwatch, in a 1v1 vs a CPU, no Chrono Boost.

Unit Recharge/Build times

Warpgate
Zealot - 16.7
Sentry - 23.4
Stalker - 23
Templar - 32
DT - 32.4

Gateway
Zealot - 23.8
Sentry - 30.4
Stalker - 30.3
Templar - 40
Dark Templar 40

So warpgates produce units roughly 30% faster than normal gateways, in addition to all the other benifits.

CowGoMoo

United States428 Posts

March 02 2010 06:31 GMT

Heres a secret, tooltips now display build times in addition to mineral/gas costs =)

Ftrunkz

Australia2474 Posts

March 02 2010 06:38 GMT

Wow, i dont have the beta, but i didn't know warpgates produced units faster than gateways... I was always wondering why everyone always upgraded every single gateway to warpgates more or less ASAP when not doing strategies specifically involved in proxy pylons etc.

30% seems like a LOT, and definitely discounts the small gas/mineral cost per gateway to do it.

ffswowsucks

Greece2234 Posts

March 02 2010 07:29 GMT

Protoss are imba :D they can make units fasterrrrrrrrrrrrrr ^_^

Can you also tell us the timings on a gateway when it gets chrono boosted!?

Floophead_III

United States1832 Posts

March 02 2010 07:33 GMT

It's whatever the number is over 1.5.

So for a zealot it's 23.8/1.5 seconds.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm doing Laplace transforms at 230 am and I'm a little mindfucked at the moment.

bodysnatcher21

Australia147 Posts

March 02 2010 08:04 GMT

Also its worth considering this;

Gateways cost 150 minerals and 65 seconds to build, this time can not be reduced by chrono boost.

Researching warpgate costs 50 minerals/50 gas and takes 60 seconds and can be chrono boosted.

Converting a gateway to a warpgate takes 10 seconds (no mineral/gas cost) and can be chrono boosted.

I think based on this we can conclude the following;

You should ALWAYS research warpgate and upgrade your gateways BEFORE BUILDING A 3rd GATEWAY, as this is much, much more efficient.

Plexa

Aotearoa38209 Posts

March 02 2010 08:10 GMT

I've gotten into researching warpgate asap while building 2 stalkers in PvT. By the time they finish I upgrade my gate to a warp gate and then land down a third. Pretty neat way of getting 3 stalkers out pretty quick.

Mikilatov

United States3897 Posts

March 02 2010 08:18 GMT

Excuse me for my ignorance, (I've played like ~450 games with terran but nothing else) but units which come out of warp gates must be 'warped in' in pylon power, right? Do these build times include the few second 'warp in' time while they spawn?

I feel that the warping in sometimes can be problematic as your base is being pushed, for the unit is vulnerable during this time and cannot move or attack. Just a thought!

exeprime

United Kingdom639 Posts

March 02 2010 08:25 GMT

On March 02 2010 17:18 Mikilatov wrote:
Excuse me for my ignorance, (I've played like ~450 games with terran but nothing else) but units which come out of warp gates must be 'warped in' in pylon power, right? Do these build times include the few second 'warp in' time while they spawn?

I feel that the warping in sometimes can be problematic as your base is being pushed, for the unit is vulnerable during this time and cannot move or attack. Just a thought!

Add to this the fact that you're almost never gonna start building a new units *exactly* when the cooldown finishes. Without queuing, you're bound to miss seconds here and there, which makes faster build speed less impressive.

Plexa

Aotearoa38209 Posts

March 02 2010 08:27 GMT

#10

Theres a 5 game second warp in time afaik

Catch]22

Sweden2461 Posts

March 02 2010 09:37 GMT

#11

On March 02 2010 17:27 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Theres a 5 game second warp in time afaik

I do feel this reaffirms Liquid´Drones opinion that there was enough to do not to worry about MBS, in order to maximize efficiency with toss, you REALLY need to be on the ball as there is no queueing of units, and warpgates only save you a few seconds(sans the walking time). If you miss production rounds, tehy are actually worse since you can't queue, but if you are good, they are faster.

Voilá, Macro Skill required. I approve.

Twe3k

89 Posts

March 06 2010 19:02 GMT

#12

srry for digging this up, I'm nub... But with warpgates, you can Warp in freshly produced units to anywhere with pylon power? but you can't move Already produced units instantly across the map to another spot with pylon power?

FiBsTeR

United States415 Posts

March 06 2010 19:12 GMT

#13

On March 07 2010 04:02 Twe3k wrote:
but you can't move Already produced units instantly across the map to another spot with pylon power?

Now that would be imba.

Twe3k

89 Posts

March 06 2010 19:16 GMT

#14

On March 07 2010 04:12 FiBsTeR wrote:
Now that would be imba.

well, if you have seen battle report 4, when he hits the 5 0'clock island Xpansion he sets down a warp prism and all of a sudden 12 zealots pop out of the pylon powa to rape all the scvs. perhaps he was just carrying them in the prism however it looked like they were warped in. Let me find the Vid.

At 1 min and 54 seconds the warp prism sets up and zealots get warped to the base. is that just units that were produced out of the warpgates at the time or was he able to send over some zealots that he had laying around.

MidKnight

Lithuania876 Posts

March 06 2010 19:28 GMT

#15

Btw, you also forgot to take into account 5s warp-in time, which also actually makes units vulnerable to attacks.So Warpgates are worse if your base is being under siege already.
Warpgates build units faster and in theory they are better than GWs in every aspect.

However, in practice there's a whole different deal.
You are wasting double as much time warping units in (you can't press "z,z,z,z,z,z,z,z", but instead you need to "z,mouse click,z,mouse click,z, mouse click" etc.) and you can't queue, which requires way more APM lategame.
It also adds more room for error as no player will play perfectly enough to keep warping units in as soon as warpgate's cooldown ends.
So few extra seconds will almost always be wasted.

Still, WGs are superior even with those little nuances, which I believe is wrong cause there's very little reason to ever turn WGs back to GWs and I think there should be.
Otherwise all GWs should just transform into WGs automatically once the upgrade in Cybernetics Core is finished..

da_head

Canada3275 Posts

March 06 2010 19:53 GMT

#16

warpgates are far superior to gateways, and not being able to que up units isn't a big deal. just keep a glance on the warpgate number on the bottom right and ur good to go

ihchulk

Germany60 Posts

March 07 2010 01:22 GMT

#17

On March 07 2010 04:28 MidKnight wrote:

However, in practice there's a whole different deal.
You are wasting double as much time warping units in (you can't press "z,z,z,z,z,z,z,z", but instead you need to "z,mouse click,z,mouse click,z, mouse click" etc.) and you can't queue, which requires way more APM lategame.

But you can just press Z + hold shift + click + click + click.

dham

4 Posts

August 15 2010 12:37 GMT

#18

thank you very much for this OP

Argoneus

Czech Republic273 Posts

August 15 2010 12:47 GMT

#19

... reason for bump?

ggofthejungle

Romania392 Posts

October 16 2010 23:43 GMT

#20

This is the closest post I found that mentions my problem, so i'm bumping instead of creating a new thread. I haven't heard much talk about this on teamliquid, if there is such a topic please post the link.

On March 07 2010 04:28 MidKnight wrote:
You are wasting double as much time warping units in (you can't press "z,z,z,z,z,z,z,z", but instead you need to "z,mouse click,z,mouse click,z, mouse click" etc.) and you can't queue, which requires way more APM lategame.
It also adds more room for error as no player will play perfectly enough to keep warping units in as soon as warpgate's cooldown ends.
So few extra seconds will almost always be wasted.

Exactly my problem: I don't have the necessary APM to use warpgates efficiently. I always forget to warp in units right when they're available, so the 5 seconds you get by warping faster does not warrant the time lost in not warping the unit right when it's available. I prefer gateways to warpgates 90% of the time, especially in the early game where I don't need to warp units to reinforce my main army - my main army is already in my base, right where the reinforcements pop out. Also, in the middle of the battle it is impossible to go back to warping units on time without a high APM. The pros have high APM anyway, so it's not a problem to them.

In the early and mid game, it is more efficient for me to have normal Gateways. My attention is already divided between : make probes, make pylons(which I forget a lot), scout, (sometimes) micro/attack/harass, make upgrades, expand, transfer probes, think of what strategy to use next etc. I can never keep track of when the warpage cooldown ends. If I have gateways instead of warpgates, I can queue units - this way, no time is being wasted. Yes, queuing is bad, but I queue it right when the unit coming out is almost done.

Yes, there are situations where warpgates are more useful to have. If the game is long enough or if there's a large distance to my opponents' base, I get warpgate tech. Late game there's no more probe production and no more pylons if I'm maxed, but how can I get the most out of my warpgates in the early and mid game? Do you guys do something specific - do you have stick-it notes on your screen that say "Warp units?" or you just don't care about the time lost between warping units?

When a unit is out of the gateway, it makes a sound. That is a signal that notifies me - that I need to make more units. But when they're warpgates, there is no notification that lets you know your warpgate is ready to produce again.

How do I overcome this other than, obviously, getting higher APM? Just practice more with warpgates until I get used to their mechanics? I feel like I am missing out and once I can master warpgates, I can become such a better player.

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