• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:21
CEST 10:21
KST 17:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
INu's Battles#13 < ByuN vs Zoun > Tenacious Turtle Tussle SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BSL Season 21 BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW caster Sayle BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1291 users

TLMC9 Feedback Thread - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
October 14 2017 03:34 GMT
#81
On September 22 2017 21:19 Samro225am wrote:
i'd love to have some feedback, too. Specifically third base, gold base, spacing (openness, chokes, distances) and expansion layout. + Show Spoiler [Verdure Island] +
[image loading]

Verdure imo is a very, very solid map, the layout is cool enough, the spacing between bases is also good, but even when things like the bridges are interesting and all it still failed to catch enough attention vs the competition, remember that the standard category is basically the most competitive of them all.

Here's some of the changes I have in mind.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Many of the changes are focused on slightly increasing openess, and small quality of life changes like the overlord spotting highground, adding the small bridge at the middle in order to avoid a straight line attack path and accent even more the bridges that are already set up, reduce the lenght of some of the bridges to have more space for armies moving around, and have more space in case you want to create changes here and there.

Hopefully the feedback better show you some of the issues that left the map out.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-16 23:05:45
October 16 2017 23:01 GMT
#82




On September 23 2017 06:59 SidianTheBard wrote:
Already heard feedback on Blackwood Timbers & 2Fort via Discord but since Fatam raged at me...

Habitation Station 2:
https://i.imgur.com/Sye765b.jpg

Tried to bring out different features with the return of the gold base, all the little ramps toward the middle, the potential forward 3rd base for aggressive. Figure maybe it was just too "normal"? I dunno. Thanks!

Ok, hopefully this comes out alright

Habitation Station 2 had couple issues, but most of them sprout from the changes you made to the center of the map inverting the position where there used to be choke points and where there used to be wide ramps:

[image loading]


More specifically I'm talking about these choke points:

+ Show Spoiler [chokepoints leading from the central h…] +
[image loading]


These changes, even when they generate issues which where correctly addressed like the increased danger of things like armies camping in the highground with siege units (read correctly moved the highgrounds away from the third because of siegetank range):

+ Show Spoiler [siege tank range on HS 2.0] +
[image loading]
      Overlay of Siege Tank range

[image loading]
      Because the highgrounds were pushed back a bit, they correctly leave enough breathing room for the defender to maneuver


At the same time, that extra needed openness, leads to issues with the third bases being probably too exposed when accouting, for the missing chokes which were present on the version 1.0 of the map:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Specifically, that key choke near the natural ramp is the one which helped slow down armies from being able to fully envelop the defender's army at the base of the Natural ramp.

[image loading] [image loading]

Habitation Station 1.0 ---- ---- Habitation Station 2.0


The increase in openness above from 1.0 to 2.0 is very clear on the map analyzer.

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Non-Gif links] +
  • Habitation Station 1.0

  • Habitation Station 2.0

  • Side to Side


The main issue here, is that said chokepoint helped a fair amount, on allowing the rather exposed Third base set up on Habitation Station to work, because it helped reduce the flow of the attacker's army, and acted as a small buffer.

Now unlike many of the other maps that I have reviewed on this thread, this map accounted very well for the "Siege Tank Menace", by moving the central highgrounds a bit back, but on doing so, and by removing the chokepoint near the natural ramps, it helped weaken its own Third base set up.

The trick here, is that, if the Shield Batteries that are being tested atm end up working, and allowing Toss players to take more exposed Third bases, then that would indeed mean that this map as it stands might very well work in that scenario, the kicker tho, is that the Shield Batteries atm are not on the main game, and as such, it got dropped off the "Standard Category race".




Now that out of the way, here's a more personal mapmaking angle to other things which I consider issues with the way the choke points were inverted, and it is the creation of a central plateau which is not particularly easy to for both players access to, specially when the armies are roaming around the map on the Early Lategame or Late Midgame. Meaning, I see this plateau as an area where a single player will want to be around most often than not, instead of having the two players interact.

Classic colored map:

[image loading] [image loading]


By the coloring you can kinda tell what I mean, I consider the center of the map might be too "detached", choke points were highlighted to better show the idea.

And here is how it looks with the attack paths are shown.

[image loading] [image loading]

[image loading] [image loading]

      Size of arrows, represent difficulty traversing terrain, the bigger the arrow, the easier big armies can travel.

Both maps clearly have the preference for the "top" attack path (bottom on 2.0), which is the mark of Habitation Station, yet, Habitation Station 2.0 also has this almost pendulum like attack path on the middle/central plateau, because on 2.0 it is easier to attack the "enemy" side of the plateau once you "climbed" onto it, than it is to actually "get" your army on top of the plateau because the chokepoints prevent easy access to it when going "up".

So because of those difficulties, at the end, on my mind you kind of end up with something like this:

[image loading] [image loading]


Where the central plateaus can become kind of like a pendulum. Swaying depending on who's on top of the plateau, and whoever is, because of the inherent difficulty of actually getting there can also keep the other player down, because he has the highground advantage.

Most maps which have mirroed symmetry can become like this, in the close past we have played on Gettysburg which had this kind of feature, yet there the Third base wasnt as exposed as here, nor was it on the same scale, it was for the most part limited to the North of the map, not quite the entirety of the center, and it had the large ramps which made easier to attack up.

All of this leads to a final point, how easy to defend the "bottom" bases truly are, and at least to me, the answer is "not very" defensible.

[image loading] [image loading]


So, yeah, there also is the entire thing with the 3 gases on the Golds, and Pros were kind of interested on it, I personally, can't really talk about that kind of specific balance, I mean, I could, but I dont feel personally that I know enough of current and possibly future metagame and balance development to for sure say if those Golds will for certain be "broken" or no, tho, I would seriously advice for caution and at least remove 1 of the gases, they are cute as they are a good bonus lategame, but because of the gold minerals, the entire base also gives a considerable boost to any player's economy at any point in the game, so yeah, tricky.

Almost forgot, bigger main base is kind of neat! And you might want to do what Meavis does when he does the square cliffing, to avoid SCV's getting stuck, just a quality of life kind of thing.

[image loading]
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
October 20 2017 22:55 GMT
#83
On September 27 2017 03:00 Crozo64 wrote:
Want some feedback too : Wuru ice

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

You didnt ask for specifics, so I'll just give a general outline.

Map overall is "fine", the core layout is a pretty solid standard map, the spacing between the nat and all the alternative thirds is overall good tho it touches a bit too much on the too close side of things, but that's a detail, the nat choke is also good + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
.

The space behind the Nat mineral line is also decent, not too big, enough for ovies and the harassing liberator.

Issues on the map are rather limited, and those are the (Avex style!) bases basically overlapping at the 12 and 6, the double ramps at the third, poor cliffing and use of space and aesthetics with cliffs, general lack of clarity on the ground texturing, bad usage of mineral lines.

Tho beyond those issues, the core idea of standard maps such as this one, isnt too shabby, a bit dull in the center, but solid enough with the highgrounds and the Xel'naga Towers.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-23 07:27:40
October 23 2017 07:21 GMT
#84
On October 14 2017 12:34 Uvantak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2017 21:19 Samro225am wrote:
i'd love to have some feedback, too. Specifically third base, gold base, spacing (openness, chokes, distances) and expansion layout. + Show Spoiler [Verdure Island] +
[image loading]

Verdure imo is a very, very solid map, the layout is cool enough, the spacing between bases is also good, but even when things like the bridges are interesting and all it still failed to catch enough attention vs the competition, remember that the standard category is basically the most competitive of them all.


Thank you for taking the time to discuss the map. Amongst other changes I might reconsider how the centre works. The changes won't make it the most exciting conceptual map,but hopefully very, very solid and a bit more interesting than before.

On October 14 2017 12:34 Uvantak wrote:
Here's some of the changes I have in mind.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]


Many of the changes are focused on slightly increasing openess, and small quality of life changes like the overlord spotting highground, adding the small bridge at the middle in order to avoid a straight line attack path and accent even more the bridges that are already set up, reduce the lenght of some of the bridges to have more space for armies moving around, and have more space in case you want to create changes here and there.

Hopefully the feedback better show you some of the issues that left the map out.


The ideas offered are small adaptations that should be easy enough to make and should be quite effective.

The only thing I am not so sure about is the main ramp change due to distance to the third. Probably I can come up with a bigger overall change in the starting quarter of the map that helps me increase main space, but also have a better ramp setup there and create more space for the cliff-hugging low ground base.

About the changes in the map's centre I am also not 100% sure, since the tight corridor will still not be an open area. Mainly i am unhappy about that area's integration to the gold on the one side and the common base on the other.

hence I consider to increase map width slightly to have some more space for that. In this process I will consider to change how the map splits. Right now there is a diagonal split that creates two parallel low ground buffer zones that are a bit tricky to navigate. If I manage to change the central bridge's/choke's orientation (90°). What I mean by this is that the forward ramp from the gold plateau will no longer move down into a tight lateral transfer zone, but down into a more basin shaped area that has a higher connectivity to the opponents bases (the vertical highroad ledge along the map's borders lefthand right. In my imagination at least this will also create better flow and integration overall without making it too anti-macro.

your mock-up with the three bridges is somewhat close to what the setup was before, btw. yet it will make the lateral zones between bridges and bases even a stronger aspect of the map and i think this would be problematic.

Here are two sketches about the probably somewhat problematic lateral transfer zones and an illustration about the basin-idea with the new central bridge idea for more openness and a more vertical split.

Thoughts?

[image loading]
[image loading]
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 97
SortOf 85
StarCraft: Brood War
Zeus 3604
Sea 2402
firebathero 852
TY 318
Larva 311
PianO 217
Killer 143
Shine 80
Aegong 51
Sharp 34
[ Show more ]
soO 21
Bale 19
Sacsri 17
NotJumperer 0
Dota 2
XaKoH 320
XcaliburYe56
League of Legends
JimRising 628
Reynor103
Counter-Strike
olofmeister933
Stewie2K744
shoxiejesuss737
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King151
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor151
Other Games
summit1g13546
WinterStarcraft614
ceh9588
C9.Mang0222
Happy205
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 27
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1809
• HappyZerGling103
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 39m
Monday Night Weeklies
7h 39m
Replay Cast
14h 39m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 2h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.