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Welp now that's a sexy map. Not sure about having that many bases in a HotS map though, you could probably remove the 1g bases. Also double entrance nat is going to make everyone cry d:
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It definitely looks refreshing and new. The 2 entrance nat seems difficult for protoss though.
Have you thought about perhaps changing the symmetry so that both third bases do not have the same layout / surrounding area? I mean similar to King Sojung Station.
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On July 30 2015 23:09 RoomOfMush wrote:
It definitely looks refreshing and new. The 2 entrance nat seems difficult for protoss though.
Have you thought about perhaps changing the symmetrie so that both third bases do not have the same layout / surrounding area? I mean similar to King Sojung Station.
That would break the magic of the simmetry  Currently thinking about something innovative to make the natural balanced , will update if I come up with something.
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your Country52798 Posts
This is interesting... I'm worried about that natural though. I might make both ramps wallable by a pylon + gate or a zealot + gate, just to make things a little easier.
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On July 30 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 23:09 RoomOfMush wrote:
It definitely looks refreshing and new. The 2 entrance nat seems difficult for protoss though.
Have you thought about perhaps changing the symmetrie so that both third bases do not have the same layout / surrounding area? I mean similar to King Sojung Station. That would break the magic of the simmetry Currently thinking about something innovative to make the natural balanced , will update if I come up with something.
But does such a symmetry really add anything to the game?
My point is, if you break the symmetry you might give the players more strategical choices. Taking the north-west third or the south-east third does not make a difference right now. But if you change the symmetry you could make it so that the choice of third could lead to different play styles. It would also allow you to make the choke on one of the natural sides easier to defend (by making it smaller perhaps).
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United States10402 Posts
you're forcing protoss to gate first vs zerg. so sadly, that's not very good. otherwise the map looks sick and i cant think of anything I would change off the top of my head with a quick look.
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Great design for promoting early game map awareness! Now fix the naturals so players aren't so pigeonholed. Maybe just extra rocks on one side so that it's passable to only small units. Also I'm a little concerned about tank attacks from the lowground mid at the natural mineral line cliff. Maybe make more deadspace and/or push the cliff out behind the minerals?
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Pretty interesting. I'm working on something sort of similar with the main/nat setup, the main change I would urge you to consider is making the nat a bit smaller, it makes it easier to defend a setup like this if photon overcharge can cover most of the nat and your units don't have to go as far (not to mention static D is more useful). edit: i'm sure terran would thank you as well if their scv's don't have to go half a mile to repair depot walls.
I think the 4ths on the edge of the map being partial bases makes a lot of sense, the easier base should have less resources. Rest of the map seems standard shmandard but solid ideas all around. Maybe what chokes there are in the middle could be a little more chokey, right now there aren't any real man's chokes.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Would be very interesting to see in void
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Great map, love the experimental aspect of it
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HOLY shiiiizzzz, i loved it. The color is awesome also.
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Map has been updated and uploaded on NA & EU as " Nemesis by IeZaeL". Feel free to play some games on it and post what you think.
Changes 1.0
Both natural ramps are now wallable with gateway+zealot. Dont need the pylon anymore.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aTOoN4e.jpg)
Various little aesthetics improvements regarding performances.
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Whoa, love the look of the map!
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I really love the aesthetics! And I like most of the map layout...
But why do those double entrance naturals pop up time and time again? It has been tried before, Protoss suffers every time and every time we agree to not do it again. And yet here we are again...
Making the entrances small enough to wall it with 1 Gateway and a Zealot does not change the fact that you need 2 Pylons, 2 3x3 buildings and 2 units to block the access to your natural against Zerglings.
I know, it's a frustrating thing that the Protoss balance and design imposes such limits on the mapmakers but until Blizzard changes their approach this is what we'll have to make do with. We don't start adding walls against flying units around the main and natural for the sake of being "experimental" either...
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On August 02 2015 07:06 Nezgar wrote:
I really love the aesthetics! And I like most of the map layout...
But why do those double entrance naturals pop up time and time again? It has been tried before, Protoss suffers every time and every time we agree to not do it again. And yet here we are again...
Making the entrances small enough to wall it with 1 Gateway and a Zealot does not change the fact that you need 2 Pylons, 2 3x3 buildings and 2 units to block the access to your natural against Zerglings.
I know, it's a frustrating thing that the Protoss balance and design imposes such limits on the mapmakers but until Blizzard changes their approach this is what we'll have to make do with. We don't start adding walls against flying units around the main and natural for the sake of being "experimental" either...
if you see the previous post, it's changed to only require a gateway and a zealot on each side, meaning each entrance can also be completely walled with 2 pylons. this is a total of only 8 tiles to wall aka less than a standard nat wall-off.
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On August 02 2015 10:34 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2015 07:06 Nezgar wrote:
I really love the aesthetics! And I like most of the map layout...
But why do those double entrance naturals pop up time and time again? It has been tried before, Protoss suffers every time and every time we agree to not do it again. And yet here we are again...
Making the entrances small enough to wall it with 1 Gateway and a Zealot does not change the fact that you need 2 Pylons, 2 3x3 buildings and 2 units to block the access to your natural against Zerglings.
I know, it's a frustrating thing that the Protoss balance and design imposes such limits on the mapmakers but until Blizzard changes their approach this is what we'll have to make do with. We don't start adding walls against flying units around the main and natural for the sake of being "experimental" either...
if you see the previous post, it's changed to only require a gateway and a zealot on each side, meaning each entrance can also be completely walled with 2 pylons. this is a total of only 8 tiles to wall aka less than a standard nat wall-off.
I read the previous post and my comment still stands.
You are talking about an emergency "OMG 6 lings are running across the map" situation. For a regular wall-in you usually want it to consist of a 3x3 building and enough space to let 1 unit pass or block the entrance. The displayed screenshot is indeed how I would create the wall in a regular game in order to be safe against early ling pressure on this map. What is missing in the screenshot, however, is the Pylon that is required to build the gateway in the first place.
Starting the game thinking "I have to close those 2 holes asap before I can concentrate on anything else lest I die to early Zerglings" is just not very pleasant for me.
On top of that both ramps feature destructible rocks which makes it easier for, say, a roach-bust to break through. On either side.
It doesn't matter how you twist and turn it, this natural layout is disadvantageous compared to regular naturals.
I am not sure how to fix the problem while keeping the general layout the same or similar. If you were to close one side with rocks you'll end up with essentially the same main-nat-third layout as KSS - while also inheriting all the problems that come along with it. One of those is the problem of having a hard time covering all angles against drop play due to the main-nat being accessible from ~270 degrees by air units. As a Protoss player everything about that screams "don't leave your base during the first 20 minutes unless commit to an all-in". That's at least my opinion of it...
As I said, I totally dig the rest of the map and wish we would get something like it in a future map pool.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lGG8AxC.png)
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