Size: 148 x 116
Main to main: 61.1 seconds
Nat to nat: 43.5 seconds
Watchtowers: 0
Destructible Rocks: 1 pair
Bases: 12
Theme: Mystical jungle
Title Set: Valhalla (modified)
Textures: Valhalla Dirt, Port Zion Grass, Umoja Grid Small, Typhon Brick, Valhalla Cracked Dirt, Korhal Platform Panels Small, Immortal Forge Concrete, Castanar Small Tiles

Published: NA

Analyzer:

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Description:
This is currently the second version. I decided after all that the watchtower set up that I had going on wasn't going to work out on this map, but I'm keeping the idea for later. I know I'll be able to make it work someway

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Ancient Realm still has a strong focus on the center of the map, since that is the main area where you can cross sides, excluding the natural, which is more choked and initially blocked with rocks. The center choke can be walled off with one 3x3 building. There are two choices for a third, and beyond that, the expansion pattern is pretty flexible. The map has circle syndrome, but with the way the center is, I hope to minimize the negative effects.

Aesthetics:
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Thanks for the feedback so far. I will probably be submitting this for the TLMC.

moskonia

Israel1448 Posts

February 02 2015 01:06 GMT

Having so few attack paths feels a bit awkward to me, as well as having a split main path which causes scouts to be less effective, as well as increase the amount of basetrades. I think changing the middle into being more open would make the map easier to play on, although removing a bit of its unique parts.

The map looks very good anyways. It's nice to see a relatively dark map, those are not really common nowadays. The flow is also good, while the 3rd is a bit hard, and there exists a circle syndrome, the bases layout is pretty standard.

OtherWorld

France17333 Posts

February 02 2015 05:53 GMT

That map is sexy as hell ! And very interesting in its layout/concept too, gj.

ScorpSCII

Denmark499 Posts

February 02 2015 09:24 GMT

Looks pretty cool, but you end up having a very split map. I would suggest you to add a middle path, much like what I did on Lyote.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

February 02 2015 09:57 GMT

I like it when antares makes maps :D

p.s. very nice decal work

-NegativeZero-

United States2141 Posts

February 02 2015 10:33 GMT

Agreed with moskonia and scorp, pathing's extremely restricted right now - I think a very small scout/rush path past the watchtower would be a good addition, and it would remove Z's disadvantage in holding the tower in the early game. The man-made texturing is awesome, although the use of artificial cliffs with the natural low ground terrain is bizarre, why not just use natural cliffs?

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

February 02 2015 18:41 GMT

On February 02 2015 10:06 moskonia wrote:
Having so few attack paths feels a bit awkward to me, as well as having a split main path which causes scouts to be less effective, as well as increase the amount of basetrades. I think changing the middle into being more open would make the map easier to play on, although removing a bit of its unique parts.

The map looks very good anyways. It's nice to see a relatively dark map, those are not really common nowadays. The flow is also good, while the 3rd is a bit hard, and there exists a circle syndrome, the bases layout is pretty standard.

The split main path was essential for the whole plan around the watchtower that I came up with. I really want the center idea to work, but if I have to change it, I will. I think the increase in probability of base trades is negligible. The middle is already very open, it is the most open area on the map by far. I most likely will not increase the openness there.

On February 02 2015 18:24 ScorpSCII wrote:
Looks pretty cool, but you end up having a very split map. I would suggest you to add a middle path, much like what I did on Lyote.

Hmm ok.

On February 02 2015 19:33 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Agreed with moskonia and scorp, pathing's extremely restricted right now - I think a very small scout/rush path past the watchtower would be a good addition, and it would remove Z's disadvantage in holding the tower in the early game. The man-made texturing is awesome, although the use of artificial cliffs with the natural low ground terrain is bizarre, why not just use natural cliffs?

Yes, Zerg does have a disadvantage in scouting early game due to the watchtower, which is really unfortunate because they are the most reactionary of the three races. I tried to have many Overlord spots that they can abuse. I will try to add more before redesigning the middle though.

I honestly am not understanding what you guys mean when you say the pathing is restricted. I may be acting stubborn here, but I don't get it. There are multiple routes you can take through the map. They are restricting in the sense that they require more commitment since you can't disengage and attack at a different angle easily, and that by moving out you won't cover all the counterattack paths. Or are you guys mostly talking about the middle? I just went and looked at some other threads and realized that most maps do not have a split middle like Ancient Realm does, and those that do implement it in a much less extreme way (ie a group of doodads in the center, or a hole). What I can do is shrink the divide. I don't want to remove it entirely.

I'm going to experiment in the editor and see if I can come up with something that fixes some of the problems that a two-path map would have without compromising the watchtower idea in the center. If you guys have any suggestions, please post them.

EDIT: I just came up with this:
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The middle is shrunk. That way, I keep the watchtower, add more paths, and diminish the size of the divide through the middle. Obviously I'll need to modify the side paths slightly to make up for it. Is this the direction that Ancient Realm should head in?

EDIT 2: I already dislike the idea...

it makes the map too standard and now the attack paths are less significant than before. The tower's importance is also diminished too much since an attack around the high ground is much easier. Those are my thoughts.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

February 02 2015 22:59 GMT

If you add a small path in the center (which is not the worst idea -- it makes the most sense as an "easy fix" for any design issues) it ruins the concept of the map, so while objectively I somewhat support it I'd much rather see the map without. The key point is that in the original design the tower watches every attack path in the early game while being nearly impossible to hold indefinitely. While zerg gets the short end of the stick on this one, I don't think they need the tower to scout attacks anyway, and the tower is a bonus, not a necessity. Indeed on this map it's zero sum. But I love that it really really pushes being in the middle of the map in the early game.

I think the design is fine tbh. I see the map this way: in the early game you have the cool tower dynamic that looks like a split path scenario but is really a closely tied open center due to the tower. As the game progresses and bases are taken ccw, the axis of movement and engagement shifts 90deg to go bottom-left to top-right across the center, making the tower area into an important but less polarizing split path area. I envision holding your own half of the plateau with continual skirmishing over the tower and a tense watch to keep an eye out for attacks pushing onto your lowground corner.

Existor

Russian Federation4295 Posts

February 03 2015 00:37 GMT

Epic design, but one unbalanced thing I found - marine can take xelnaga, while zergling can't

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

February 03 2015 04:30 GMT

#10

I'm thinking that if Zerg really wants the tower, they can put Zerglings on the opponent's side. It's not that long of a route around.

I am going to add another spot for Overlords in between the natural and the center high ground. This will be out of range of the tower, and still be able to see units moving on the high ground. This will give Zerg a slight boost in scouting ability. I'm also thinking about making the thirds larger and pushing the wide ramp from the high ground back towards the center and further away from the natural. I'm not considering any drastic changes right now. I'm going to try to get some test games going tomorrow and see how it plays out.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

February 09 2015 03:43 GMT

#11

Ancient Realm 1.1

Aesthetics:
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I decided to change the center to a more standard and acceptable layout, but I'll definitely try the watchtower idea in a different map in the future.

Changes:
-Removed the rocks on the 3x ramp to the third, and shrunk the ramp to a 2x size.
-Increased the size of the third.
-Changed the natural ramp from a 3x to a 2x.
-Added line-of-sight blockers and a new path between the third and the high ground to add more maneuvering options.
-Changed the middle by removing the tower and opening up the path slightly.
-Added an Overlord spot in between the natural and the center.

Thanks for the feedback so far! I will probably be submitting this for the TLMC.

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