Umoja Panels Medium Light Moros Panels Large Skygeirr Lab Inner Grid Medium Korhal Platform Panels Medium Korhal Platform Panels Small Dark Castanar Small Tiles Umoja Grid Small Korhal Platform Manmade Cliffs Skygeirr Platform Manmade Cliffs Custom Skygeirr Platform skybox
Description: Main has an in-base natural. The main ramp is a large ramp but blocked by debris to have the ramp wall-off like a normal main ramp. The natural has the mineral line oriented towards the center which favours air harass. The third is rather close, but can be harassed by the side cliff and has a fairly open space just in-front of the third.
For your forth, you will probably want to expand away from the opponent. In the center, you have a xel'naga tower that can only be approached by small and medium unit, which means that archon, thor, ultra,etc... Can not go near it because of the small choke surrounding the tower.
In conclusion, the map favours macro game, but offers a lot of harass opportunity.
IMO the debris should be removed from the main base entrance since there are two full bases behind it. Kespa made the change to the entrance to the natural on Planet S because it was too easy to wall off at the natural and have two bases behind it. I think the same logic applies here.
On May 07 2013 06:45 MarcusRife wrote: IMO the debris should be removed from the main base entrance since there are two full bases behind it. Kespa made the change to the entrance to the natural on Planet S because it was too easy to wall off at the natural and have two bases behind it. I think the same logic applies here.
On May 07 2013 06:45 MarcusRife wrote: IMO the debris should be removed from the main base entrance since there are two full bases behind it. Kespa made the change to the entrance to the natural on Planet S because it was too easy to wall off at the natural and have two bases behind it. I think the same logic applies here.
That's a valid point. We obviously didn't want to have just a single-wide ramp to the main, but because the natural is so exposed to air we didn't want the main to be too vulnerable either. This is the safer route which we decided to go with, its possible, given testing, that an unblocked 2-wide ramp may suffice.
On May 07 2013 06:57 yoigen wrote: your map looks like a swastika
In the layout, i would remove the central xel'naga since i feel it removes from the game more than it adds to it, but other than that the map is good, maybe too good....
In all seriousness the swastika is not only the symbol of the Nazi, it's even a symbol for many ancient religion. I would also like to quote something very interesting that Nightmarjoo said on a post on Broodwarmaps.net about swastika:
Either math is a code of nazism, blizzard is a wing of neo-nazism, or fractals are a very inherant part of mapping; which makes sense since chaos theory and fractal behavior is very much so part of landscape and of nature and shapes
The TPW circlejerk is strong in this thread. I can make out a swastika, but it's not bad at all, so I don't think arguing about it is necessary.
Now, regarding the map.
I'd like maybe a little more room behind the mineral line in the in-base natural. It'd make the base a little safer from air because you could plant more static defense or units behind the mineral line, yet it'd still be exposed quite a bit. With Air being much stronger in HotS I think doing that would help out quite a bit.
I worry about the single wide ramp above the 3rds. Terran could abuse that extremely hard and Protoss could abuse that even harder. 2 base all-in, get above the zerg 3rd and you can easily defend yourself with the single forcefield ramp.
Cross positions I like, but close might be a problem. How fast is it main ramp to main ramp in close positions? I assume you did the main hall to main hall to measure the distance, but it'd probably be another ~15 seconds closer if measured from ramp to ramp. Also getting off a 3rd base close positions might prove to be very difficult.
XWT, I'm on the fence about. I like having it in the middle, you see a lot, but you can also sneak around the sides. With that said, have you tried it without a watchtower? The map itself isn't very complicated so maybe you might be better without one?
Aesthetics are great. Props on using the orange outline because without that the map would be very bland and not as appealing.
On May 07 2013 10:39 SidianTheBard wrote: The TPW circlejerk is strong in this thread. I can make out a swastika, but it's not bad at all, so I don't think arguing about it is necessary.
Now, regarding the map.
I'd like maybe a little more room behind the mineral line in the in-base natural. It'd make the base a little safer from air because you could plant more static defense or units behind the mineral line, yet it'd still be exposed quite a bit. With Air being much stronger in HotS I think doing that would help out quite a bit.
I worry about the single wide ramp above the 3rds. Terran could abuse that extremely hard and Protoss could abuse that even harder. 2 base all-in, get above the zerg 3rd and you can easily defend yourself with the single forcefield ramp.
Cross positions I like, but close might be a problem. How fast is it main ramp to main ramp in close positions? I assume you did the main hall to main hall to measure the distance, but it'd probably be another ~15 seconds closer if measured from ramp to ramp. Also getting off a 3rd base close positions might prove to be very difficult.
XWT, I'm on the fence about. I like having it in the middle, you see a lot, but you can also sneak around the sides. With that said, have you tried it without a watchtower? The map itself isn't very complicated so maybe you might be better without one?
Aesthetics are great. Props on using the orange outline because without that the map would be very bland and not as appealing.
What circlejerk? Icetoad and I both worked on the map, Monitor and I both made jokes.
Area behind the Nat: We went back and forth about that, the consensus was that you can't be able to tank the fourth mineral line from the nat, or vice versa, and the resulting amount of space is what we have, that said the minerals could probably be moved in a tick or two to make it easier to defend without static d.
Ramp above third: it certainly favors zerg the least, I'm a bit worried about it, and if testing proves it, changing it to a 2-wide is definitely doable.
XWT: I really see no problem with the tower on this map other than the fact that its a tower and has all inherent problems every other tower has. There is PLENTY of space to avoid the tower on this map and the center is very wide open, making it difficult to defend.
On May 07 2013 10:34 Semmo wrote: Could I see the original map as well?
Btw, map looks really good.
On May 07 2013 10:39 SidianTheBard wrote: I worry about the single wide ramp above the 3rds. Terran could abuse that extremely hard and Protoss could abuse that even harder. 2 base all-in, get above the zerg 3rd and you can easily defend yourself with the single forcefield ramp.
Well I've talked with Sasquatch about it and said that section above the third will only see it being used in TvT and maybe PvZ, PvT, but he said it wouldn't cause that much of a problem since you could easily stop before it happens. However, it's true that he pointed that it would probably be abused a bit by a 3base all-in with a collosi timing or a blink stalker 2 base all-in. But overall he wasn't very concern about that part.
Yeah I agree, that small ramp is mainly for harass or a dedicated attack that will use it. It's more the threat of it that enhances the positional value of the high ground, which cascades all the way across promoting it from "alternate route" to a preferred route instead of the middle. But to use it uncontested would require a mistake on the part of the defender, which is fair.
I really like the Crevasse/Calm before the storm natural, but doesn't it contribute to positional imbalance as well as general difficulty for protoss to defend drop and muta play? IIRC, those were the things that made protoss dislike those maps in WoL and now muta and drop play is even stronger.
Still, I agree with EatThePath, its better than those two maps and that is really saying something.
Unlike a map such as Whirlwind, the positional imbalances are designed to balance each other out. The Nat is more exposed for the counter-clockwise player, while the third is more exposed for the clockwise player.
As for the natural, the balance remains to be seen, Protoss is now just as capable, perhaps more so, of harassing an exposed mineral line in HotS.
Very nice map. Good work ! May i ask how did you get the Skybox ? Just retextured Skygeirr skybox ? Would love if it could blend with Korhal Platform skybox :D
On May 07 2013 22:56 TheFish7 wrote: Good map... the skybox is really a nice touch.
I really like the Crevasse/Calm before the storm natural, but doesn't it contribute to positional imbalance as well as general difficulty for protoss to defend drop and muta play? IIRC, those were the things that made protoss dislike those maps in WoL and now muta and drop play is even stronger.
Still, I agree with EatThePath, its better than those two maps and that is really saying something.
I agree wrl did an awesome job with the skybox.
Concerning the Crevasse/Calm before the storm natural like wrl said we don't think protoss will have a big problem, plus it's a full base and how the nat and third are placed, they balance out each other.
Also thank you for saying that it's better than these two map since they made GSL...
On May 08 2013 06:11 IeZaeL wrote: Very nice map. Good work ! May i ask how did you get the Skybox ? Just retextured Skygeirr skybox ? Would love if it could blend with Korhal Platform skybox :D
Its kind of a complicated process with a lot of strange things that need to be done, I couldn't describe it without forgetting a step. That said, the general idea involves exporting textures and material files (.dds and .m3) and customizing them using photoshop and a hex editor.
Hmm... I really think you should consider only allowing crossspawns. The map just seems to terran favoured when getting close positions, especially if he's clockwise.
On May 09 2013 21:02 RaGe wrote: Hmm... I really think you should consider only allowing crossspawns. The map just seems to terran favoured when getting close positions, especially if he's clockwise.
Nice map though!
I'm not sure if it'd be terran favoured. You could just pull a fighting spirit style expand and just go south rather than taking the natural third.
On May 07 2013 06:57 yoigen wrote: your map looks like a swastika
On May 07 2013 08:06 Veloh15 wrote: I hate to say it but... It does resemble a swastika. If you remove the intersection at the end of each road it should fix that.
A swastika goes clockwise, not counterclockwise. Google image it.
Also, definitely a cool looking map with that block design. I'm not even close to good enough to comment on balance, but aesthetically it's very unique.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oJqqGHa.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i4.minus.com/iblcGczqTO7eIz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i2.minus.com/i6VmNlSTtrau5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4077.jpg)
