|
Damn it guys, i`m gone for a forenight and you are ripping your heads off again -.-
On January 31 2013 08:59 SiskosGoatee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 08:41 Uvantak wrote:On January 31 2013 00:07 Unshapely wrote:
Great map. The critics here are quite harsh, I rather like the way the 3rd base is positioned. Everyone here argues as if the 3rd base on all maps should be alike. Heh, stupid people. I agree with you the 3rds on the maps shouldn't be the same, but the problem is that if the 3rds aren't "easy" to hold protoss loses to 200/200 max roach push, so they need to be safe to an excent, because if they don't then the only chance protoss has to win is via all ins. The thing about this is that many many layouts in which the third base is unsafe aren't really do able because of that, so from the miriad of different layouts we can use only a handfull since these are the ones that allow the protoss play a macro game. Well i already told you what i think of the map on reddit wrl, it`s a really nice map ^^ Or you know, don't FFE because the 200/200 roach max only works versus FFE. But then again, people think not being forced to consider your opening based on the map is a bad thing. And please don't come with this 'You need to forge FE' stuff, I never FFE if I don't think the map is good for it for a variety of reasons and incidentally most maps that are bad for FFE are good for stalker pressure expands which are again bad on good FFE maps. In fact, I'm feeling advantages on open naturals that don't allow FFE because they allow stalker pressure expands which I feel put me in an economically superior position to Zerg than FFE. Also, I asked this on AllThingsZerg, most Zergs say they feel less secure when playing against a non FFE and rather play against FFE.
Yep, it`s really annoying when toss opens with a pressure build, when you are trying to open 15 hatch, but the problem with most of these builds is that if toss loses some of the units or doesn't do enough damage it´s almost an auto lose for what i have experienced, and if the zergs open with a fast speed build (pool first) toss is gonna lose the stalkers and there's not much he can do, besides replenish his troops and expand to his natural while the zerg is taking his third and droning up, so because of that FFE is safest, and there before more common, it's definetly it's not "you need FFE" it's more like "if you are not sure of your skills or the zerg's then FFE on"
And as you say the naturals that are good to FFE are bad to the pressure builds since they are more closed and have less access (accesses?  ) to them which is what the pressure builds needs to work is slight open naturals.
On January 31 2013 09:17 Timetwister22 wrote:Except that protoss doesn't lose to Stephano style max roaches anymore. Ever try sentry immortal all in? Do that, but instead of push, expand around 8:30-9:00. Also, this third is safer than most since most units cannot actually hit town hall from the high ground, hence why it is only a half base.
I have faced it yes, but i haven`t done one yet, but it doesn`t even matter if the nexus can't be reached by the roaches, since zerg just need to camp some roaches in the highground and stop mining while spliting his forces to that lowground area and behind the WRL logo, then when toss goes out to deflect the roaches in the highground the big force camped in the lowground would caugh toss with his pants down and surround it with the roaches harassing and the ones behind the wrl logo, dunno if that would really work (i have done similar things many many times, and have worked wonderfully, but dunno if it worked because my oponents where just retarded tho) but that's the idea i get.
Of you talking about doing an inmortal sentry all in and placing pylons on the highground of the half base, i as a zerg woulnd't take that base, i would take the "4rd" (the one in highground) as a third and make a creep highway to connect the nat to that base, otherwise zerg would get fucked by the immo all in as you guys are saying.
I still love the idea of the layout of this 3rd base, what i would do is say get fucked both (toss/zerg in WoL) and leave the map as it is now, and let HotS decide if the map becomes balanced or not.
|
Based on testing and some feedback, here are the current changes proposed for 1.1
-Moved the mineral line of the third a few units off of the wall. Units with 6 or less range will no longer be able to reach the base from the above cliff, but units with 4+ range will still be able to reach miners. There is not room for a turret, cannon, crawler, etc.
-Fixed an issue where people with OCD would complain about the third.
-The ramp leading towards the natural has been moved a unit closer to the main, this should allow slightly quicker access to the base (numbered 5) vertical of the main.
-The gas at the #5 base has been moved to one side, out of range of the high-ground pod.
-Texture painting underneath decals has been cleaned up. Those running on low graphics settings shouldn't complain anymore about their sloppiness.
|
Beautiful. I do think the incentive to all-in is way too strong for Protoss.
They can't get 6 gas or hold their third with zealots vs Terran
The main is so big and exposed, blink would be ultra strong
There are so many ramps that sentries make 2 base timings invincible
Maybe open it up a bit in the middle and reduce the area that P can blink into the main from, and put the minerals at the back of the third with 2 gas. You can add a back door ramp because it is in the corner anyway.
|
the tileset looks seriously sick, so tron like
|
Map has been updated to 1.1, check OP for changelog.
|
"Fixed an issue where people with OCD would complain about the third."
lol
|
Congrats on having the map in IPL6! (It's in the HotS open bracket)
|
Wow this looks really interesting!
|
Depending on which games are good, we should hopefully see a few games of Phantasm cast from the recent IPL6 HotS open tournament qualifiers. It will definitely be cast live at IPL6 itself as well provided not every single player vetos it.
If I get a hold of any good replays that aren't cast, I'll try and cast them myself, but it won't be pretty.
|
On February 22 2013 00:52 wrl wrote:
Depending on which games are good, we should hopefully see a few games of Phantasm cast from the recent IPL6 HotS open tournament qualifiers. It will definitely be cast live at IPL6 itself as well provided not every single player vetos it.
If I get a hold of any good replays that aren't cast, I'll try and cast them myself, but it won't be pretty.
OR you could just upload the replays
|
Hey guys, me and Sisko have played quite a few games on this map, and I got to say I love it, really good map and the 3rd is really unique in that you can be safe and greedy, but you can't really defend it versus an aggressive player without a force, which means stuff like fast 3 bases with a FFE cannot work and so does 3hatch with no gas versus gate expand, and that is even though there is only one choke.
A thing I do think needs to be changed is that there should be at least 1 or 2 towers, because playing on the map felt kinda random sometimes, I think having towers, at least for the start, is really important. But that might not be necessary for pro players, so I dunno.
If you want the replays then here:
http://drop.sc/306250
http://drop.sc/306251
http://drop.sc/306245
http://drop.sc/306246
http://drop.sc/306247
http://drop.sc/306248
http://drop.sc/306249
Again I have to say well done, a really fun map to play on and I hope you will see a lot of pro's playing at IPL 
|
Thanks for the feedback.I'll watch when I have a bit more free time. I will say that if it were put on ladder it would have a tower in mid.
I also think the third is very ready to hold it just requires adjusting your meta. Time will tell.
|
My opinion is that the third is too easy to hold, especially in PvZ. Z has a really hard time effectively harassing from the high ground as Z is just getting your army forcefielded of.
|
Hello! My name is Ryan and I am the developer of the GameHeart overlay. I would really like to make your map available with the overlay. I know you are still tinkering with it but I wanted to at least start a dialogue so hopefully we can work together in the future!
Here is the thread about my overlay:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400600
|
What is up with this map wasn't it supposed to be in tournaments (IPL 6, i know it got cancelled)
Is there nobody interested in it ?
|
Been waiting for TLMC! We'll see how it goes from there. Thank you for the interest!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
