I have added doodads to the map in my previous post. Fennec's Depot:144x150 + Show Spoiler +
Newest map idea. Frozen canyon with rivers. Only 12 bases total. Layout not so thought out. Also I could not find map that has low ground only at middle and high ground only at edges, so balance may be questionable. Also is there any magic tricks about adding many simple doodads like trees? It just feels overwhelming to add them one by one and it still doesn't look good. Korouoma: 148x148 + Show Spoiler +
And last, my first map with name. I'm pondering about environment effects. Raining and may be lightning would match sea theme. but then map would be darker. PookiOutpost:152x156 + Show Spoiler +
I will probably submit all of these to TLMC soon. Currently no idea for the fourth map.
(2)Hesperus 152x152 Like many others TLMC9 relit the candle a little bit. What do you think this map would qualify as? having the straight line to the opponent, but at the same time having a somewhat safe backdoor expansion? Rush? Standard? What do you think?
On August 25 2017 04:24 Legan wrote: I have added doodads to the map in my previous post. Fennec's Depot:144x150 + Show Spoiler +
Newest map idea. Frozen canyon with rivers. Only 12 bases total. Layout not so thought out. Also I could not find map that has low ground only at middle and high ground only at edges, so balance may be questionable. Also is there any magic tricks about adding many simple doodads like trees? It just feels overwhelming to add them one by one and it still doesn't look good. Korouoma: 148x148 + Show Spoiler +
And last, my first map with name. I'm pondering about environment effects. Raining and may be lightning would match sea theme. but then map would be darker. PookiOutpost:152x156 + Show Spoiler +
I will probably submit all of these to TLMC soon. Currently no idea for the fourth map.
map1 >mains are way too small >very standard main/nat/3rd setup, I assume that's intentional
>middle bases are really weird. They don't really seem that way at first, but the flow of the map is really hard to follow. For example, on King Sejong Station, the middle bases flow really well with the rest of the map. They allow for smooth and clear army movement around the map, and most importantly divide the map in the late game. Here, they do more of the opposite of splitting the map, and army movement is very confined in a strange way due to the few ramps and their directions around the middle bases. I don't know if this is bad. I don't really like it though. If it were me, I'd remove the rocks and make that area blocked off, and add an additional 2x2 ramp on the other side of the 3x3 ramp. It makes troop movement a little easier and allows the map to be split while players expand into the middle. >good tower positioning
map2 >not much to say about this one >pretty standard, a bit to open for my tastes >match point esque highground in corners is cool, but probably wouldn't be used much aside for harrassment >river aesthetic is cool but the bland trees aren't
map3 >main is again too small >bases are too easy to take imo >center is alright but generally you want the tighter areas to not be in the center of the map
On August 25 2017 08:18 nesta-kun wrote: (2)Hesperus 152x152 Like many others TLMC9 relit the candle a little bit. What do you think this map would qualify as? having the straight line to the opponent, but at the same time having a somewhat safe backdoor expansion? Rush? Standard? What do you think?
>standard map, considering this type of backdoor is more common than a regular base outside your main ramp [hyperbole]. You should also give the main ramp/ main ramp distance if you are asking if it's rush or not. >map is too open
On August 25 2017 04:24 Legan wrote: I have added doodads to the map in my previous post. Fennec's Depot:144x150 + Show Spoiler +
Newest map idea. Frozen canyon with rivers. Only 12 bases total. Layout not so thought out. Also I could not find map that has low ground only at middle and high ground only at edges, so balance may be questionable. Also is there any magic tricks about adding many simple doodads like trees? It just feels overwhelming to add them one by one and it still doesn't look good. Korouoma: 148x148 + Show Spoiler +
And last, my first map with name. I'm pondering about environment effects. Raining and may be lightning would match sea theme. but then map would be darker. PookiOutpost:152x156 + Show Spoiler +
I will probably submit all of these to TLMC soon. Currently no idea for the fourth map.
map1 >mains are way too small >very standard main/nat/3rd setup, I assume that's intentional
>middle bases are really weird. They don't really seem that way at first, but the flow of the map is really hard to follow. For example, on King Sejong Station, the middle bases flow really well with the rest of the map. They allow for smooth and clear army movement around the map, and most importantly divide the map in the late game. Here, they do more of the opposite of splitting the map, and army movement is very confined in a strange way due to the few ramps and their directions around the middle bases. I don't know if this is bad. I don't really like it though. If it were me, I'd remove the rocks and make that area blocked off, and add an additional 2x2 ramp on the other side of the 3x3 ramp. It makes troop movement a little easier and allows the map to be split while players expand into the middle. >good tower positioning
map2 >not much to say about this one >pretty standard, a bit to open for my tastes >match point esque highground in corners is cool, but probably wouldn't be used much aside for harrassment >river aesthetic is cool but the bland trees aren't
map3 >main is again too small >bases are too easy to take imo >center is alright but generally you want the tighter areas to not be in the center of the map
The size of the mains isn't too bad. Maybe the first one is a bit too small, but I think the third one is fine. New Gettysburg showed us how small mains could be without hindering gameplay overmuch.
upping this post because new page was at unfortunate time.
although gaming PC broke, so RIP probably
160x160 is huge, and only having 12 bases on a map that big is concerning. It means the base density is really low which makes expanding difficult. Both the third and fourth feel really distant consequently. I'd suggest to go back and measure the distance between the bases and shrink them down to the textbook ~40 (and shrink the map accordingly). Not a huge fan of the ledge with rocks at each end either. If just feels like it says no to zerg ever expanding there early.
upping this post because new page was at unfortunate time.
although gaming PC broke, so RIP probably
i really like the main/nat/3rd layout here, with that little rock blocked corridor. gives the tradeoff of either leaving your 3rd vulnerable to drops, or opening up the nat to runbys. imo i'd change the rock closer to the nat to a collapsible tower, so terran drops are still more vulnerable there until they take it down themselves. also, add a high ground ridge between the main and the corridor so you can't blink directly into the main without high ground vision.
i don't like the backdoor to the main though, those are just annoying to deal with. and i agree that the base density's too low for a 160x160 lotv map - either add a couple more bases, or (the better option) shrink the map and scale everything down.
Hey all. Don't know which 2 of these to submit for tlmc (already have 2 I know I'm submitting). Would love any help/advice/thoughts on which 2, or if you see one with potential but it has some issues you think need fixing, feel free to critique!
Ala'dor and Grime I think are the best ones. The natural of Red Dragon looks too hard to defend with attacks from both sides plus potential drops or elevators from the front, and Cthulhu's layout looks a bit unwieldy. Grime just looks like a fine standard map with non- orthodox layout,and I really like how you cleaned up Ala'dor since the original iteration (the door thing is of course still a bit of a question mark but of course it would be).
On August 27 2017 01:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Ala'dor and Grime I think are the best ones. The natural of Red Dragon looks too hard to defend with attacks from both sides plus potential drops or elevators from the front, and Cthulhu's layout looks a bit unwieldy. Grime just looks like a fine standard map with non- orthodox layout,and I really like how you cleaned up Ala'dor since the original iteration (the door thing is of course still a bit of a question mark but of course it would be).
yeah they are real strict on custom things this time around so things like doors are a no-go. But I kinda liked the layout even w/out the doors so I figured I'd try an edit. I was starting to lean away from cthulhu already (maybe down the road I can fix it to make it more elegant) so thanks for reaffirming that.
I kind of agree with you that the double entrance nat for a rush map like red dragon is probably bad, I just am not sure how to properly edit it to have 1 nat entrance yet. It's a little trickier for a small map like this because the nat entrance pretty much needs to be where it is (or so) because if you put it more towards the middle then the rush distance is too small. But keeping it where it is and getting rid of the 2nd natural entrance.. makes it hard to access the other side of the natural (the 12/6 o'clock area) easily. Will have to figure something out. Maybe that area doesn't need to exist at all.
I am far from an expert opinion but I agree with ZigguratOfUr. Red Dragon feels really awkward in general and Cthulhu seems a bit too large / overly complicated. I really like what Grime does, though.
On August 27 2017 13:38 MoonStone1 wrote: Working on a second map for the competition.
What do you guys think of Snowbourne? 140x108
140x108 is very small, and most people are of the opinion that ten bases is too few in LotV. The insanely long ground path with the incredibly short path down the middle that opens up is doubtful but intriguing since it makes this map basically a reverse Secret Spring. With how much it hinders scouting I think this map will unfortunately have brutal cheeses and little else.
@Fatam contrary to what other people are saying, i like red dragon, especially if you're going to enter it into the rush category, which always seems to have a shortage of good maps.
@MoonStone i think 140x108 is doable for a rush map but it would be pretty tricky to get the proportions right. i'm trying to figure out how this map would play out... i can imagine someone trying to attack around the side path and the opponent scouting it and simply counterattacking down the middle, where they'd arrive first since it's so much closer and forcing the original attacker to turn around.
regardless, the 3rds look especially far and hard to defend compared to the distance between players, so i'd probably predict a lot of 2 base all-ins unless you change that.
On August 27 2017 16:07 -NegativeZero- wrote: @Fatam contrary to what other people are saying, i like red dragon, especially if you're going to enter it into the rush category, which always seems to have a shortage of good maps.
Yeah I am thinking the same. I have what I think is a pretty good revision of it almost done (new nat configuration and some other changes), will probably post for feedback tomorrow.
Cthulhu is definitely out. People so far seem to like Grime so it's probably in.
So right now I just have to cut 5 down to 4, (it's 1. an ancient confines edit that I haven't posted yet 2. crimson aftermath 3. grime 4. red dragon edit 5. alador edit. Maybe the alador goes even though I kind of like it, not sure. I feel like crimson aftermath is different enough that I can submit it to the new category, which makes it hard to get rid of.
Progress update on MudWatch, published on EU and NA.
Thanks for the feedback. A rock-blocked backdoor opens a shorter path to the forward and vulnerable third. I think its a main feature, plus the position of the gold. Should the gold be high ground instead?
Thank you guys very much for your valuable feedback.
You should move the main minerals a little closer to the main ramps so it's easier to ping pong an army between the main & natural. The overall map does seem a little small and would probably be too aggressive in the middle, especially since you're making that the point of entrance to the natural and the shortest attack path once the rocks are down.
With the rocks down it's what, 20 seconds nat to nat? Which is waaay too short. It seems the rush distance from Nat to Nat would be faster then Nat to 3rd, so at that point you almost never want to expand to a 3rd.
It's weird because I feel like you're trying to make an aggressive map, yet the corners (1 & 7 are littered with so many bases all super close to each other that it almost screams Macro. Yet again, with the rush distance natural to natural I don't see these side bases ever getting used. You either need to make the 3rds much closer to your natural to allow players to even want to expand to a third, or get rid of the section in the middle and rework pathing around the map to make the direct route from nat to nat longer. Heck, even making the 1 & 7 corner bases the main bases and the naturals being down the ramp, with two choice of thirds would probably make the map more enjoyable and better balanced.
Aesthetics look a ton better so that's a nice step up.
Keep it up bud! Don't take these too harshly at all, just random thoughts. =)
for red dragon. Texturing/aesthetics is still unfinished for some of the changed areas until I'm set on what I'm doing. Would love any feedback. Fun to see the submissions in the tlmc thread so far, some look really good
Here is an update on MudWatch. Feedback appreciated. Uploaded to EU and NA.
Also, testing a safer and closer third ... or just a boring one? Which do you prefer and why? + Show Spoiler +
An observation is that it really helps with movement through the map from first bases to last bases ... but is it a good thing? If that large army movement is discouraged, would we see more split armies?
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