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On June 25 2012 22:41 Guardian85 wrote:
It should be possible to make christmas tree, using landing lights, just gotta variate the height of them.
I looked into it, didn't turn out very well. The tree sways in the wind and the light stays still. It doesn't look good.
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United States10154 Posts
Terran has mules. Saturation isn't really needed for a Terran player 
But w.e. man. If you are going to stick with this even though the majority of people think differently, that's your choice.
I still think you need to change the layout of the 4th's. Don't know how, considering you don't have much room to do it since the islands take up the corners.
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While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes.
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United States10154 Posts
On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes.
I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg.
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On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg.
Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though.
Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances.
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United States10154 Posts
On June 26 2012 01:16 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg. Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though. Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances.
The entire point of the creep tumors/things that block from terrans lifting, is so that terran has to get drop research as well as zerg and protoss. thats the whole point. sure, mining it out won't be that big of a deal in the beginning of the game, but if you could have a base that couldn't be harassed for 8-10 minutes without forcing, say zerg to tech instead of pump econ, and for protoss to be forced to get an earlier robo for WP, would you take it? its an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it.
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On June 26 2012 01:33 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 01:16 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg. Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though. Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances. The entire point of the creep tumors/things that block from terrans lifting, is so that terran has to get drop research as well as zerg and protoss. thats the whole point. sure, mining it out won't be that big of a deal in the beginning of the game, but if you could have a base that couldn't be harassed for 8-10 minutes without forcing, say zerg to tech instead of pump econ, and for protoss to be forced to get an earlier robo for WP, would you take it? its an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it.
I know, and agree. I only meant to point out that the mule doesn't really have an effect on the strength of taking islands that early, not to argue that it would be okay or balanced to have unblocked islands. I want to keep an open mind, but it would probably not be okay to leave islands unblocked.
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United States10154 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:00 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 01:33 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 01:16 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg. Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though. Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances. The entire point of the creep tumors/things that block from terrans lifting, is so that terran has to get drop research as well as zerg and protoss. thats the whole point. sure, mining it out won't be that big of a deal in the beginning of the game, but if you could have a base that couldn't be harassed for 8-10 minutes without forcing, say zerg to tech instead of pump econ, and for protoss to be forced to get an earlier robo for WP, would you take it? its an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it. I know, and agree. I only meant to point out that the mule doesn't really have an effect on the strength of taking islands that early, not to argue that it would be okay or balanced to have unblocked islands. I want to keep an open mind, but it would probably not be okay to leave islands unblocked.
I mean i guess. i still think if terran were to get some early macro OCs, it could turn imbalanced. but im sorry that i miss understood you before.
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On June 26 2012 02:05 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 02:00 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:33 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 01:16 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg. Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though. Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances. The entire point of the creep tumors/things that block from terrans lifting, is so that terran has to get drop research as well as zerg and protoss. thats the whole point. sure, mining it out won't be that big of a deal in the beginning of the game, but if you could have a base that couldn't be harassed for 8-10 minutes without forcing, say zerg to tech instead of pump econ, and for protoss to be forced to get an earlier robo for WP, would you take it? its an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it. I know, and agree. I only meant to point out that the mule doesn't really have an effect on the strength of taking islands that early, not to argue that it would be okay or balanced to have unblocked islands. I want to keep an open mind, but it would probably not be okay to leave islands unblocked. I mean i guess. i still think if terran were to get some early macro OCs, it could turn imbalanced. but im sorry that i miss understood you before.
That's okay. No big deal. I'm probably bad at communicating my thoughts properly.
But do you think that by the time they would have any macro orbitals that they would also have drop tech and be able to remove a tumor? Meaning that mules would become an issue even if the island is blocked. At least on a map like metro, where, kinda like shakuras, it becomes hard to take bases late game in zvt. I could see that with this map, even if the islands were blocked.
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United States10154 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:17 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 02:05 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 02:00 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:33 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 01:16 Gfire wrote:On June 26 2012 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:On June 26 2012 00:58 Gfire wrote:
While terran has mules, they aren't effected by other workers and thus expanding doesn't increase your income from mules any more than having an in-base OC. The only increase in income you get from taking the island would be from the SCVs you make/take there. And it also means you won't mine out your other bases as fast if you send your mules to the far location, but I don't think that really has a significant effect on how OP terran becomes. I forget who was playing who, but basically in the late game, terran went mass OC and grabbed the two islands on metro. basically the islands became dry in 3 minutes, but terran basically wasn't pressured at all in those 3 short minutes, and their econ skyrocketed, leaving zerg no choice but to try to take the two middle expos, which terran denied continously, running out the zerg. Yeah, your right, it does effect how OP terran becomes. But I in terms of fast expanding to the island by floating to it, it doesn't really come into effect for a really long time. The inability to transfer workers to it hurts Terran nearly as much as the other races, although they are able to pick up a few SCVs in a CC. What you refer to is an issue with islands in general, even if blocked by tumors or rocks, though. Of course, that doesn't make islands balanced or mean that you shouldn't block them, although maybe if done properly you could counteract the imbalances. The entire point of the creep tumors/things that block from terrans lifting, is so that terran has to get drop research as well as zerg and protoss. thats the whole point. sure, mining it out won't be that big of a deal in the beginning of the game, but if you could have a base that couldn't be harassed for 8-10 minutes without forcing, say zerg to tech instead of pump econ, and for protoss to be forced to get an earlier robo for WP, would you take it? its an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it. I know, and agree. I only meant to point out that the mule doesn't really have an effect on the strength of taking islands that early, not to argue that it would be okay or balanced to have unblocked islands. I want to keep an open mind, but it would probably not be okay to leave islands unblocked. I mean i guess. i still think if terran were to get some early macro OCs, it could turn imbalanced. but im sorry that i miss understood you before. That's okay. No big deal. I'm probably bad at communicating my thoughts properly. But do you think that by the time they would have any macro orbitals that they would also have drop tech and be able to remove a tumor? Meaning that mules would become an issue even if the island is blocked. At least on a map like metro, where, kinda like shakuras, it becomes hard to take bases late game in zvt. I could see that with this map, even if the islands were blocked.
but that's the point. the tumors slow down terran so they are forced to get that drop research. and then zerg and protoss can catch up on tech at that stage in the game. there's nothing we can do about macro OCs. we cant force blizzard to not allow that. we are just giving a chance for the others to put pressure, or even take the bases for themselves first.
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EPT
