|
FRB Winding Straits ( 1.6) Made by: RFDaemoniac Published on: [NA] Overview:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6SxExl.jpg) Angled Overview:+ Show Spoiler +
In-Game Description:
Basic: High ground and chokes make for a game of chess.
Extended: With 6m1hyg expansions, high ground to defend your first 3 bases at least, and chokes throughout the map, deciding when and where to be aggressive becomes a challenge.
Inspiration:
I recently saw a post on High Ground Mechanics by Barrin and was inspired to use high ground and forward chokes. This is the 2nd map that I created from this inspiration (the first was way too large and thus air was too good, defeating the purpose of playing around with how ground armies work). This map was more of one day exercise for me but I was happy enough with how it turned out that I've decided to post.
Aesthetics
I have not placed many doodads on this map yet, but will continue to work on its aesthetics over time.
+ Show Spoiler +Floating rocks and scars ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dnFoNl.jpg) scars at new combined islands and standard green ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DJ8q5l.jpg)
Data (Aesthetics):- Texture Set:
- Bel'Shir Brush
- Bel'Shir Grass Dark
- Mar Sara Sand
- Braxis Alpha Rock
- Typhon Rock
- Char Red Cracks
- Redstone Lava Cracks
- Cliff Type:
- Typhon Organic Cliffs
Pictures (Gameplay from 1.3):
+ Show Spoiler +Shortest Paths - Main to main: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/soapCl.png) Openness: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ebaSkl.png) Chokes at natural and main: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B75yzl.jpg) Easternmost base: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QN8e2l.jpg)
Data (Gameplay):- Playable Bounds: 140x140
- Main Choke <-> Main Choke Distance(s): 55 seconds
- Nat Choke <-> Nat Choke Distance(s): 42 seconds
- Mineral/Gas Counts: All bases have 6m1hyg except for bases in the SE and NW most corners, which have 4m2g. All mineral fields have 2000 resources, all high yield geysers have 5000, and all normal geysers have 2500.
- 226000 / (140 * 140): 11.53
Further Balance Comments:
The charred texture outside both naturals is unbuildable terrain in every other square. This is so that it is not too easy to wall off your natural while still forcing units close enough to the high ground of your main so as to be attacked.
Also terrain that is not reachable by standard ground units from the map is unpathable. This includes all 3rd level terrain as well as some 1st and 2nd level terrain that is not connected to the rest of the map or do not have ramps.
Changelog
+ Show Spoiler +1.1 - original map + Show Spoiler +1.2 - widened choke at embedded third and ground below corner expansions 1.3 - moved outer third closer to natural and made that island bigger + Show Spoiler +1.4 - widened space on island between natural and thirds, added 2nd attack path to corner bases, increased low ground area on side bases, combined two small islands S of middle (and N as well) and moved resources on this island closer to main 1.5 - minor changes 1.6 - added destructible rocks to both corner base paths (was only on one half of the map before)
RFDaemoniac
|
Uh, I'm not entirely sure, but those mains look awfully big and spread out.
|
Any chance we can get analyzer pictures? I have this feeling that those straits are too winding but I can't really tell.
|
It's actually completely vision coverable with 3 buildings (cc and 2 rax, for example).
I have noticed that the third that is low and away from the main (6:00 and 3:00) is hard to defend for a zerg player, so I was going to open up the area between these bases and the corner expansions.
|
I'm on a mac  so I can't analyze. If anyone were willing to dl and run the analyzer on it that would be awesome. Slash I'll talk to some of my friends about it
|
Analyzer pictures are up and I've made some changes to make some areas more open (see change log)
|
|
|
It seems way too chokey for zerg to ever win a game that goes past 100 supply.
|
PiPoGevy: yeah, it has. I've had quite a good time playing and watching PvZ, ZvP, and PvP on it. Expanding as both races feels awesome. I haven't had much chance to see or play games with Terran players on it, yet. Tanks are so positional and I definitely want mech to be strong, but I haven't gotten a chance yet.
The one game that I did watch was a ZvT but the Zerg didn't play as well as the Terran, so it's hard to see what role the map played. It is true that the Zerg lost a large part of their army in a poor engagement.
TheLetterQ: It is very chokey, and this is often a problem for Zerg, but you can definitely lure armies into more open areas such as the bulge between the natural and thirds or the middle. Zerg has some general gameplay issues with forcing engagements before broodlords (which are really powerful on this map), but fungal growth and burrowed banelings can take advantage of those chokes just as much as other races. It certainly makes mass roach less viable, but I would argue that 11 minute max is overpowered anyway. Because you have so much gas (less geysers for same proportional income plus the gas-heavy expansions in the corners) I see strategies such as hydralisk ultralisk infester being viable on this map, which requires far less surface area than roach ling or ling bling muta.
I am considering some more changes in Zerg's favor, however, such as combining the smallest base that is close to the middle and the island between it and your main that has nothing on it. That would make this base easier to take and hold as Zerg because there is so much open space around it.
|
I really, really, really like the look of this map. However, I think that Protoss will have an advantage. The bases look like they're a little easier to take for them, and they benefit the most from sitting back and macroing and defending (yeah, I know zerg does too, but a 200 toss army > 200 zerg army, with micro). Also, because of the chokes, zerg is going to have a slight disadvantage early to mid game. Terran is really going to benefit from mech play on this map as well...but TvP seems like a nightmare for Protoss - so many chokes = bad chargelot surround.
I think that flanking is just going to have to happen on this map, and with Protoss' limited mobility, I'm not sure how that will help them. Maybe colossus and force engagements at chokes with zealots flanking? Zerg is going to have an advantage in that regard as well.
Here is what I would change:
Make the area where the third, nat, and fourth come together wider - maybe eliminate that little inlet.
Instead of having the center be one big loop, I would consider splitting it into two parts, and separating it in small increments. This might promote flanking or counterattacking more than now; but the difference would probably be marginal, but noticeable.
Have there be a path between the side bases and the corner bases. I would have rocks on the path.
As of now, 5 bases is almost ridiculously easy to hold on that map - and zerg benefits the most from that, which gives them a huge army boost. Wave after wave of cracklings would just flood into your bases. Having the backdoor into the 5th would open a counterattack route, as well as provide a greater element of risk than now.
Things I like:
The side bases are beautifully designed. They're competitive, yet easy to defend. I love that.
The open areas of engagement near the expansions are a nice touch too. That really helps the flow of the map.
I would definitely play this map. It's a well designed map. However, I think that harassment won't play as much of a role as in some other maps. I think if you added even more attack routes it would be a dynamic map.
|
I designed a map the other day that is an almost identical twin to this one. Great to see it in fruition.
|
I'm curious to see what you chose to do differently, have you posted it on TL anywhere?
|
This map looks amazing. It truly feels like a planet or landscape I've never visited with a story. It has a natural feel to the landscape. The textures are different from what I've seen. I'd like to see some more aesthetics shots. If possible, a few doodads in there could add to the atmosphere. Otherwise, that's an inspiring map!
|
NyghtTyme: Thanks for the thorough comments  I definitely get what you're saying about protoss having an easy time taking bases. It probably slips into my thought process more than the other races because I've spent quite a while focussing on playing protoss. I think broodlords are going to be particularly potent on this map because of the choke and the opportunity to stay out of range, so I'm not too worried about ZvP. About TvP, I think that protoss is overpowered in the late game (I know that I don't fear terran late game armies, even if they're perfectly composed), particularly with zealots, so I actually see difficulty in getting a surround as a good thing. You'll still be able to use them to defend because you get to choose where to engage as a defender (until they get to a base).
As for protoss flanking ability, blink stalkers, a dark templar to every base, or phoenix play all abuse this type of terrain. I definitely want to encourage flanking and splitting up your army, as this was part of the point for FRB and barrin's post on chokes and high ground.
Seeing comments such as protoss will have an easier time taking bases but zerg is going to have an easier time flanking is really encouraging. I like to think that this map will change the style of play because I find death balls a little boring sometimes. I know that I play differently on it.
I definitely will enlarge the area between the thirds, I noticed this before and enlarged them between 1.1 and 1.3, but I agree that they could be bigger.
About splitting the middle up, I wanted to leave a big area for large armies to engage and surround if they get the chance, to throw up a spine crawler wall, etc. However I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by splitting it in two and segmenting it. Could you draw a picture over the image in paint, perhaps?
I also like the idea of a rock backdoor into the corner bases
Do you think it's a problem that harassment doesn't seem as viable? I tried to place high ground around the outside to allow for drops/air units to get away, or were you talking about ground harass in the early game?
Xaulior: Thanks so much This is encouraging and I'll definitely do some more aesthetic work after these gameplay changes, and will post pictures shortly after.
Right now I'm working on a first draft of another map (trying to churn quite a few out in the next month in order to improve and get my name out there), but I'll have time to review this map this weekend, at the latest.
|
Haven't even created it yet! I sketched an idea in my notebook and tried to put it into the editor and ended up changing quite a bit because I don't know how to use the editor (proportions, etc).
|
Id like to try it out, looks very interesting. Also reminds me alot of BGH but with high ground.
|
Okay, so I just made some updates. The area just outside the natural is now much bigger but still just as easy to wall off, there is a 2nd attack path into the corner bases, and the mineral bases closest to the center have been combined with the areas behind them.
I think these changes help zerg defend their bases and make the attack path options a little more interesting.
|
Passages are way too narrow. I can't imagine it would be valid in any matchup.
|
On May 05 2012 00:58 Meltage wrote:
Passages are way too narrow. I can't imagine it would be valid in any matchup.
I understand the apprehension towards forward chokes, but given that this was the entire point of the exercise and Barrin's posts on the subject I'd like to disagree with you. Each race certainly treats chokes differently, and compositions that are zealot heavy or roach heavy are going to be worse in a choke, but this doesn't seem to be a problem because other compositions will be better.
I was hoping to give a defender's advantage but it mostly just pushes you towards different compositions. That being said, these different compositions and the opportunity to harass that FRB and the other features of the layout provide have made for some very interesting games.
An additional note: The rocks between the natural and third are too easily used to wall off the third from the natural by an attacker with pylons, so I've now moved the rocks to the other side of that choke.
|
Very nice map, I say the terrain was a bit to dull for me
|
The problem with the version Burning Straits is that it's too chokey and the flow is awkward for a 8m2g map. It fills the space in overly complex ways that result in terrain that only matters in weird cases where a fight happens there, but never should because other routes can close off that space. It's not a terrible map. It just doesn't offer anything comprehensibly unique in a solid way, and it has a slew of awkward problems, like base placement. There is no concept or theme that holds it all together except for lots of chokepoints, I guess, which means that fixing it doesn't make much sense, you'd just be changing isolated features endlessly. Better to just move on and try new things. I hope this helps. =]
|
This does help a lot, thanks
I never played on it as an 8m2g until just now and it does feel very awkward.
I was definitely going for a lot of chokes and for alternate attack paths in order to encourage multiple smaller engagements, which I felt like it did as 6m1hyg, but everything is just too close together while your main bases are just too far apart.
It felt so good as 6m1hyg... oh well.
|
Looks beautiful esthetically.
Third seems hard to take.
Main is kinda wierd and huge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TDSB5l.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9wiBcl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Kk5qrl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VHbqel.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ybjxcl.jpg)
