[M] (4) Edmund Duke Stadium - Page 2

Exigaet

Canada355 Posts

March 09 2012 04:23 GMT

#21

On March 09 2012 12:39 Zariel wrote:
Did you know that if you switched the ramps around a bit, it will be balanced for any spawn position?? I dunno how to explain it better but give it rotational symmetry for the bases

This is not made to be a rotational symmetrical map at all.

BreakfastBurrito

United States893 Posts

March 09 2012 06:55 GMT

#22

Wow, this map is really impressive

love the theme haha!

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

March 09 2012 07:06 GMT

#23

The concept, simply put is awesome. The implementation of it is pretty good too, however I feel that overall the map feels really closed and small...

Perhaps because of the base density, it just seems overly cramped. I think that it would be better with 14 bases, which still allows for a significant number of bases to be taken, since honestly if both get to 7 bases, the game should end soon... Even though there are 4 possible spawns, it is essentially a 2 spawn map, and I simply feel that 8 a player is too much...

On the same note, the expansions that do exist are very small and cramped... the 4 middle bases provide nearly no space surrounding the actual expansion. Those platforms need to be expanded or altered. As I mentioned above, I think it would be even beneficial to remove some, and perhaps replace them with Xel'Naga Watch towers such that there are 2 rather than 4. Currently the towers seem to cover too much area, a better coverage area is like 20-25% however there are maps with no towers that are highly looked upon as well, so don't feel obligated to have so many towers. Like I said earlier, this really should be treated as a 2 spawn map, and 4 towers seems like over doing that.

Beyond the actual tightness of those expansions, the rest of the map seems very closed and tight as well. Do not confuse this with chokey, because although this map is quite chokey, probably even too much so, more importantly it creates areas that are quite inaccessible. like many others have said, the cliffs simply limit the pathing in a way that trekking from certain areas to others can be quite a long distance, which can be bad for gameplay... One way to address this I think is the removal of the pathing rocks... while I'm not a blatant rock hater, and think that they are very good in certain cases, I don't think that this is it, and I think their removal here would be beneficial. I think that reducing the sizes of the chasms/abysses at the 2/8 positions by the expansion would also provide that expansion with some "breathing room".

On somewhat of a sidenote, I think that the rocks at the one third should be removed as well, since it really isn't that easy to take, since by ground it is quite a ways from the natural. I think that rock blocked thirds must be much more accessible to warrant the rocks and those simply aren't in my opinion. If you want to increase the difficulty in taking that third perhaps you could take out the small cliff that creates the double choke, as that would significantly open up the map, which I think would be good. There is an alternative third presented by the other base anyways, so regardless the taking of a third would not be too difficult to one race or another.

Lastly, I would like to point out that the use of horizontal and vertical ramps is generally frowned upon. Some maps are hinged upon their inclusion, which I think is bad, but luckily this map is not, and I think with small changes they could be removed, while creating a better "flow" in general.

Do not take these criticisms wrongly, I think this is a great map, but it definitely has great potential to be developed. While I only provide suggestions, I strongly advise you to consider them, and come up with some of your own solutions. This is a fantastic first entry, and regardless of what you decide to do with this, look forward to seeing your future work! The aesthetics, concept, and theme are great!

Exigaet

Canada355 Posts

March 09 2012 18:30 GMT

#24

I think you should take a look at the mineral lines of other maps made by pros, or even by Blizzard themselves. The majority of your mineral lines are setup really bad. You need space between gas geysers and mineral patches, and at least 1 or 2 spaces so workers and other units can move freely through them. Right now a couple of the bases have no spaces between minerals or the gas geysers, making units have to run all the way around the minerals.

An easy way to setup mineral field and gas geyser layouts is to put down a CC/Nexus/Hatch and put the 8 mineral fields/2 gas geysers around it in an optimal way.

iceman8711

United States14 Posts

March 09 2012 19:26 GMT

#25

@Exigaet
You're right, my minerals are pretty cramped compared to the pro-maps. It took me a while to discover the "placement grid" but now that I'm using it I'll redo all the mineral lines and try and make them comprable to Metalopolis or Tal'Darim

@Pocky52
Now that I'm directly comparing my map to some of the other 4 maps, your comments are definitely hitting home. Would you recommend that I map some protrusions from the main square shape of the map, extend the boundaries a little bit, in order to open up? I've eliminated the expo at the goals and replaced it with a small platform for two Xel'Naga towers now, so hopefully that will clear up stadium entrance cramps. I've also reduced the negative space at the 9 and 3 expos which is helping some with the openness. I haven't published those changes yet, but they'll probably go live tonight.

@ClysmiC
I can't believe I put the wrong title on the thread. It has been fixed, thanks for the heads up

I'm trying to ease some of the power of Siege tanks by giving paths for easy surrounds and having alternate paths if one area gets too locked down. Hypothetically, other map features should balance it out but I'll have to see some replays eventually to know if its too exploitable.

@TheFish7
Thanks for letting me know what XWT meant. Even the Custom Map guidelines just said "This is self-explanatory" so I felt like a bit of a nub. I have opened up those thirds you mentioned and non-pathed the building in front of them, very good advice. I was figuring that the high ground would be one of Terran's ways for compensating their fairly slow armies on such a large map. There are also enough avenues of attack that holding any given cliff should only be a minor setback to an attacking army, or at least that's my hope.

@EatThePath
I moved the supply depots to the other side of the ramp, thanks for pointing that out. I wanted more ramps into the center of the field, and I even made a branch of my map where I put those in but it ended up shrinking the field so dramatically that the entire stadium would have to be enlarged to have the same size field, meaning the road ring would have to be narrowed which would create a lot of chokes. On v0.11 I added some ramps to the XWTs to make them more vulnerable, but the next release is going to move the XWTs to where the goal area expos currently are. Thank you for your advice though, I'm definitely working on ways to improve accessibility to the stadium middle and high ground.

Thank you everybody else for the wonderful comments and feedback! In the day since release, I've already learned a ton more about map making. Feel free to try the map out and send me replays or casts, and if you allow I'll include links in the main post.

sAyMole

Korea (South)35 Posts

March 09 2012 20:35 GMT

#26

I don't know much about map balance, but conceptually this map seems to be clever, and visually it looks absolutely fantastic. I really hope this turns out to be a competitively playable map!

Great work.

iceman8711

United States14 Posts

March 09 2012 23:58 GMT

#27

I just uploaded v.12 onto Battle.NET that has incorporated the changes I discussed. Here is a teaser image, I'll update the rest of the post later tonight.
+ Show Spoiler +

*Edit* Posted!

iceman8711

United States14 Posts

March 12 2012 03:07 GMT

#28

I have just updated the map on this post and Battle.Net to longterm version 1.1 (1.0 had the wrong map description unfortunately). I have made further balance changes and done a lot of visual polish that those on higher video settings will appreciate, mainly lighting, not to mention cleaning up textures here and there. As always, I would love to see ANY and all replays of games on this map, it would really make my day to see others playing it.

Thank you everybody for all of the great feedback, I can't wait to submit my next map

WniO

United States2706 Posts

March 12 2012 03:28 GMT

#29

not a fan of those vines, maybe implement / blend them better. other than that, looks good.

Akinokaze

Australia326 Posts

March 12 2012 17:23 GMT

#30

Your centerpiece is made of pure win :D Can't really make any comments on balance without playing it but it seems like drop and air harass play wouldn't be too effective with the tight clustering of the initial bases plus lack of surrounding airspace.

Faya

France24 Posts

March 12 2012 17:54 GMT

#31

I'd love to upload this map on the EU server as I find it totally awesome. The simple fact to fight on and around a football field will add any european a new addiction besides football and beer. I have no clue how to upload it though, advice? I need it quiiiiick

Sinedd

Poland7052 Posts

March 12 2012 18:18 GMT

#32

very nice tileset

Promethelax

Canada7089 Posts

March 12 2012 19:33 GMT

#33

This map looks really cool.
I like the realistic urban setting, it makes this feel like a place in which a battle for control of a city might actually occur.
great job!

Vindicare605

United States16057 Posts

March 13 2012 05:37 GMT

#34

Alright one problem I'm having is that the narrow platforms in the middle, not by the watch towers but lining the stadium are causing major pathing issues especially with ranged units.

They're very narrow and its very easy to misclick to either side of them causing your units to run forward instead of away which can slaughter your forces easily.

Im thinking it might just be a wiser idea to remove the high ground pathing in the middle altogether and adopt a more open middle.

Faya

France24 Posts

March 14 2012 15:32 GMT

#35

Published on EU server

EnderSC

62 Posts

March 14 2012 16:26 GMT

#36

Looks awsome. Love the idea of the two rush distances. Easthetics are very good too.

Have you tried having a bit more access to the center high grounds (terraces)? From Road and/or field...
It's might be too exploitable against Zerg if tanks establish there or deathballs move through there... Contrarywise, Zerg potentially have 3 separate lanes to work with. Dont know. what do you think?
Edit: oh sorry this has been covered.

Good Job Iceman

RJGooner

United States2060 Posts

March 14 2012 16:29 GMT

#37

Very very cool. Love the asethetics, would love to see this map get tested more.

Great job.

MaV_gGSC

Canada1345 Posts

March 14 2012 16:58 GMT

#38

Is that a soccer field? AWESOME

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

March 14 2012 21:34 GMT

#39

This looks a lot better, both layout wise and aesthetically! My suggestions now would include simply making the tower platforms have only 1 ramp or 2 ramps opposite each other. That would make it diagonal, and would simplify the map as well. I think that the stands in the stadium, balance wise, would be better if they were only 1 tier, so that you don't have the 2 level thing going on. This allows that space to be opened up, and would also allow you to open up the roads a little bit more. One idea for this would be to lower, so the seats or what ever stay the same, but the make a hard cliff on the back (towards the road) and then flip the expos so that the resources are on the cliff side (towards the field). Just one idea, and I'm sure there are better solutions, and you can probably think of other ideas, or leave it of course...

Edit: with the suggestion I posted above, the seating area would probably be unpathable. Another thing is I know that this was already mentioned in the oppsite way, but your mineral/resource lay out could use some minor fixes, like at the 9 and 3 expos, the minerals are too spread out, and on the natural I think it was one of the gases looks a little off...

Regardless, this is much improved and I must praise your work, this looks awesome, and I will definitely test it out some!

iceman8711

United States14 Posts

April 04 2012 13:11 GMT

#40

The map has now been updated to v1.2, taking into account a lot of the suggestions from the community. This is probably the biggest change since the map was first published, mainly because the stadium was lowered by a level which opens up the field a good deal. For now, only NA has the new version, but if anybody wants to upload 1.2 to other servers send me a PM and I'll give you a link to the map file and instructions on how to publish.

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