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On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. I assume timetwister didnt do the aestethics update himself, because my eyes arent puking anymore. This really makes this event feel alot less like a constest to me. People had plenty of time to make their maps, and after that people got even more time. Now that the contest has reached final stage third party representives come and change an entry because the original was considered too bad. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers.
Timetwister22 did the visual changes himself.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. I assume timetwister didnt do the aestethics update himself, because my eyes arent puking anymore. This really makes this event feel alot less like a constest to me. People had plenty of time to make their maps, and after that people got even more time. Now that the contest has reached final stage third party representives come and change an entry because the original was considered too bad. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers.
It seems silly to waste the time between now and the TLOpen. I plan to have these maps as polished as they can possibly be for that so that it maximises the chance of maps making the ladder. TimeTwister spent most of today updating the aesthetics. You should think of it as a community victory if any of these maps make it onto the ladder, it gives rise to the possibility of events like this happening again and possibly more community maps on the ladder. There is more to fight for here than just pride.
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Maps heavily dictate the game's balance. You can't just go nuts while making a map.
Every time I'm analizing a new map, the first thing I look for are the thirds. Maybe because I'm a Zerg player.
My favorite map in Broodwar was Destination, and guess what.. It has the same 3 base layout people pointed out.
Maps can be fun to play/creative without being imbalanced.
Haven's Lagoon looks awesome, I hope it goes to ladder.
And I'm sad for Plexa, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
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United States320 Posts
On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. I assume timetwister didnt do the aestethics update himself, because my eyes arent puking anymore. This really makes this event feel alot less like a constest to me. People had plenty of time to make their maps, and after that people got even more time. Now that the contest has reached final stage third party representives come and change an entry because the original was considered too bad. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers.
I honestly don't know why people are trying to make an event like this into something so negative. Some of the attitudes towards timetwister are completely uncalled for. I just think it is kind of cool that there are so many interesting maps out there that people came up with. I also think its is extremely cool that a pro like Morrow took the time for the contest.
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On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers.
Sounds like an awesome thing to me, what is wrong with it?
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i'd like to add that i think plexa has done a great job overall. i hope there are more events like this happening in the future as i am now extremely motivated to work on a few new maps. i already have a few new ideas  esv, we will meet again! 
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On November 10 2011 20:00 Takezou wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. I assume timetwister didnt do the aestethics update himself, because my eyes arent puking anymore. This really makes this event feel alot less like a constest to me. People had plenty of time to make their maps, and after that people got even more time. Now that the contest has reached final stage third party representives come and change an entry because the original was considered too bad. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers. I honestly don't know why people are trying to make an event like this into something so negative. Some of the attitudes towards timetwister are completely uncalled for. I just think it is kind of cool that there are so many interesting maps out there that people came up with. I also think its is extremely cool that a pro like Morrow took the time for the contest.
Its because people had their hopes so high. Every map maker were given 50 days of time to submit three of the best maps they had ever made. Plexa said 150 maps were submited out of which 120 were extreamly high quality. Surely the everyone tought that the each of the top 10 maps should be able to produce some sort of eyeorgasm. Afterwards Plexa announced that there would be 7 maps in the final. What could this be? Why do this? Could the 7 maps be so good that they had to cut 30% of the epic 10, because they could be not worthy to stand next to the other 7?
...
Final 7 were revealed. It features map(s) that look extreamly unbalanced and ugly. All exitment that people built up during a reasonably long time flushed down the toilet. People lose self control and stop to care what they post.
Same happened with NASL. People got so emotionally built up that they forgot all the effort that the organisizers put into the event with good intentions.
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Great looking maps I hope Daggoth will make it to the ladder.
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Whoa these maps all look great! Looking forward to playing some of them
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You can please a crowd, but not the whole community.
I say go with these final 7 and pick the best one. There will never, EVER, be a map that everyone loves and admires. I am sure that there will be pros and cons for each map; but that's why we have a ladder pool.
I recently received feedback from Plexa and his team for my three maps, all eliminated, but for good reasons. I have to say they were very professional with their analysis and I'm sure the quality of these finalists are top notch.
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On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal.
Haven looks so much better now. Can't wait to see all these maps being played.
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Didn't know about this contest but these maps are great!
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On November 10 2011 20:23 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 20:00 Takezou wrote:On November 10 2011 19:19 Sea_Food wrote:On November 10 2011 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Updated picture of Haven. Rumour has it that monitor is going to revert daggoth back to korhal. I assume timetwister didnt do the aestethics update himself, because my eyes arent puking anymore. This really makes this event feel alot less like a constest to me. People had plenty of time to make their maps, and after that people got even more time. Now that the contest has reached final stage third party representives come and change an entry because the original was considered too bad. This feels more like a community project to find a good map, than a contest between good map makers. I honestly don't know why people are trying to make an event like this into something so negative. Some of the attitudes towards timetwister are completely uncalled for. I just think it is kind of cool that there are so many interesting maps out there that people came up with. I also think its is extremely cool that a pro like Morrow took the time for the contest. Its because people had their hopes so high. Every map maker were given 50 days of time to submit three of the best maps they had ever made. Plexa said 150 maps were submited out of which 120 were extreamly high quality. Surely the everyone tought that the each of the top 10 maps should be able to produce some sort of eyeorgasm. Afterwards Plexa announced that there would be 7 maps in the final. What could this be? Why do this? Could the 7 maps be so good that they had to cut 30% of the epic 10, because they could be not worthy to stand next to the other 7? ... Final 7 were revealed. It features map(s) that look extreamly unbalanced and ugly. All exitment that people built up during a reasonably long time flushed down the toilet. People lose self control and stop to care what they post. Same happened with NASL. People got so emotionally built up that they forgot all the effort that the organisizers put into the event with good intentions.
No. This is not a beauty pageant. People who understood the point of the contest knew that layouts would be judged before aesthetics. It's even possible that ladder-compatibility was preferred to aesthetics.
You are entitled to believe that a contest that would require very polished aesthetics for any map to qualify would be better than the TL contest. Tastes and opinions vary. But please don't pretend that the TL contest and its judges are an outrage because they do not share your values. You sound like you brought a sword to a gunfight and then complained that the other guy had a gun.
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sharing the feedback of my maps:
+ Show Spoiler +Serpentis had a huge problem in the highground. The concept was clear, but controlling the highground essentially means you have the game won. The ramps are all small and easy to get to and as such it became the defining feature of the map. Unfortunately, it isn't really balanced so we excluded the map ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/juKjj.jpg) Venti was interesting, the natural is a bit exposed which made hellions a bit strong and the golds were positioned in a way that PFs planted there would be hard to dislodge. There weren't many obvious attack paths as zerg as there are a lot of thin corridors - which made FFs even stronger. We didn't feel that the map was balanced. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/42uVP.jpg) Shurikn was your strongest map. Here is NMJs feedback: remove towers remove rocks (map too linear with them, + removes some expo ambiguity potentially) expo layout ok (highground a little too vulnerable though, far + very open) mains good nats good center a little small/linear, shuriken design obstructs pathing annoyingly: removing shuriken and shrinking ugly red water things would help all expos being on sides makes middle a little useless; suggestions to improve are subjective: make center double highground but with a high (relative depression) in center most with single central tower in depression in conjunction with previous suggestions + shrinking side paths a bit (IF author wants more central focus); ELSE change middle in different way which breaks it up into multiple small paths (no suggestion on exact details of modifications) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kWJax.jpg)
my comments
+ Show Spoiler +Thanks for the feedback but it sounds a bit worrying. It seems the judges had some predefined notions about that they were looking for in maps, concerning how specific the 'recommendations' were. Infact all the recommendations for my last map would essentially turn it into Burning Altar, lol.
I'm also curious regarding the comments on venti, "There weren't many obvious attack paths as zerg as there are a lot of thin corridors - which made FFs even stronger.", considering most of the feedback I get for the map is that people think the map is quite large and there might be one too many paths to take. Anyways thanks again.
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all the maps look really good! I can't wait to see who wins this. it's going to be really hard to choose i'm guessing
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Those maps look awesome, cant wait for the results!
Blizzard, watch out.
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On November 10 2011 22:03 a176 wrote:
I'm also curious regarding the comments on venti, "There weren't many obvious attack paths as zerg as there are a lot of thin corridors - which made FFs even stronger.", considering most of the feedback I get for the map is that people think the map is quite large and there might be one too many paths to take. Anyways thanks again.
Makes you wonder cos in your map thread people said the same thing, but they based it purely on the overview picture, ie without playing it. Yet no one said that again once you posted gameplay screenshots of how big the map is and that the corridors arent small. Almost seems like it would have had a better shot if they played on it :<
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On November 10 2011 00:44 Mereel wrote:
i dont know...im pretty speechless now.
''the very best that the community could offer.'' that is like the worst statement ever and doesnt show what the mapmaking community is capable off doing. i really thought u would use some pro players to test the maps. tl has his own team, is it really that hard to ask them for something important like that.
burning altar, ohana, cloud kingdom and twilight peaks are totally ok. i still would have choose others though
what i dont get is first of daggoth crater had a beautiful korhal texture before, why would u ever want to change that in something shitty like that, and present it like that. thats horrible for the community, same goes for sanctuary.
there are so much jokes about the belshir tileset in the community for a good reason. it looks boring as fuck! especially on sanctuary...no effort put into it at all. i dont want to look at it, i dont want to play on it, i dont want to see it on a stream because im gonna fall at sleep when i do.
ok last map havens lagoon, actually i dont know what to say really. first of, there is a reason that there are mapmaking teams. to get help from other talented mapmakers to make our maps better, learn from each other, get better testing.
so i cant understand why a random person that i never heard about ever get into the top7. and im in the mapmaking com since the beta so i know what im talking about.
the layout is propably done in half an hour and and never put much thought into it. the aesthetics are the worst i ever seen, border design non existent and all the small things at the layout that makes it look bad and 'feel' bad.
i can say with all my experience this map should never be here, you have to make maps for a long while to get really good at it, and this guy is not. no excuses here.
give it to some experiened mapmaker to reshape and retexture and redoodad it before u showcase it in a tournament. i dont want to be a part of that community if that map is one of our best to offer. that just a huge fucking joke or a bad dream. i dont understand it.
propably more later FUCK OFF
User was temp banned for this post.
Fuck off you elitist cunt.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JtwSk.jpg)
