On May 02 2011 13:36 monitor wrote: I put this on the MotM thread, but I figure I'd put it here too:
1) make main ramp normal, 1x wide (instead of the 2x it looks like now). Its just a kick in the balls to terran and protoss, because of the 6 pool. It doesn't really prevent turtling either, just is easy to baneling bust.
2) Open up the path from the 4th to 5th, and probably add another ramp down (to make it harder to turtle) That path is really small, and pretty easy to abuse. Making it wider would balance ZvP/ZvT, and adding a ramp would reduce turtling on the sides.
3) Move the XelNaga towers so they don't favor turtling (maybe no towers?). Right now taking it makes it easier to hold the 4th, which will increase turtling. I suggest either removing the towers, and making it a tower-less map, or you could put one in the center. That would allow more aggression, but it could mess up the flow too.
4) Add a ton of doodads. Everywhere. Try some ground decals, put some doodads against cliffs, and find some trees/foliage that fit. The textures are really nice right now, but its lacking the small details I think. The middle textures are actually a bit bland, you should add some different textures there.
Main ramp is 1x.
I'll open up that path, just gotta do some sim city with the fourth expansion.
I was thinking putting them in the center in the losbs. Thoughts?
Doodads. Everywhere. Got it!
Ah, okay, couldn't tell. Cool beans :p
Yeah, I think just make the level 0 lowground choke a bit smaller.
I think Xel'Naga Towers would be okay in the middle, but they might be a bit too close. Not really sure about this one. I'd probably go no towers.
Lol yes, Doodads. Everywhere. It sounds stupid, but can look pretty cool in-game.
I dislike how the Xelnaga's in the top right and bottom left cover almost all attack routes towards FOUR bases, this seems a little too turtle friendly... I might be wrong, but it seems like a Terran mech army or even a Protoss deathball could simply set up shop near the Xelnagas and cover most attack routes. Maybe move the Xelnaga to the center instead? That way its a much more exposed position but also more useful offensively.
EDIT: not to sound too negative, the rest of the map is really nice I like how you include several paths with nice expansions on either side, it reminds me of Matchpoint from Brood War.
I have a question about the XNW too: how far do they see towards the third bases? Are they actually able to see at least the close to them gas? Im just concerned that due to hatches spreading creep it might be that you can see creep there, so this way you would know that a zerg base is down there, while you cannot see a P or T base if you cannot see the vespene (better would be a mineral, best the CC,Nexus,hatch itself, or not even the fully spread creep of a hatchery) but the map looks really nice right now! I love the new 5th (non gold) bases, they look like they are hard to hold and you might consider to take your opponents 5th instead of you're own, which could be interesting in the lategame (especially in the siegeline-MUs TvT and TvZ)
On May 03 2011 15:27 YoureFired wrote: I dislike how the Xelnaga's in the top right and bottom left cover almost all attack routes towards FOUR bases, this seems a little too turtle friendly... I might be wrong, but it seems like a Terran mech army or even a Protoss deathball could simply set up shop near the Xelnagas and cover most attack routes. Maybe move the Xelnaga to the center instead? That way its a much more exposed position but also more useful offensively.
EDIT: not to sound too negative, the rest of the map is really nice I like how you include several paths with nice expansions on either side, it reminds me of Matchpoint from Brood War.
During test games, a Protoss player that was going for some sort of 4gate build would put a proxy outside the tower nearest your base, which is really hard to break out of, one of the reasons that I'm going to move them somewhere else.
On May 03 2011 16:46 Big J wrote: I have a question about the XNW too: how far do they see towards the third bases? Are they actually able to see at least the close to them gas? Im just concerned that due to hatches spreading creep it might be that you can see creep there, so this way you would know that a zerg base is down there, while you cannot see a P or T base if you cannot see the vespene (better would be a mineral, best the CC,Nexus,hatch itself, or not even the fully spread creep of a hatchery) but the map looks really nice right now! I love the new 5th (non gold) bases, they look like they are hard to hold and you might consider to take your opponents 5th instead of you're own, which could be interesting in the lategame (especially in the siegeline-MUs TvT and TvZ)
The towers see down the ramp of the third barely and no where else into the third. They cannot see the gas, though they probably will be able to see creep spread.
Changing the map's layout created the option to expand to that if you wanted to as an alternate third, or even alternate fourth, but if I move the towers, they might be revealed.
New version is up on Battle.net based on a few things suggested by monitor. The image is in the topic, along with the previous version's image.
-Larger mains. -Moved towers: towers now cover the center path and one outside path, and are relatively close to each other, yet cannot see each other and their sight overlaps barely in the center region. -More space in the fourths. -Increased the width of the fourth-fifth choke. -Removed some, but not all, LoSBs by the fourth. -Increased the LoSB area at the fifths. -Filled in the holes by the fifths and removed the LoSBs there. -Removed the LoSBs underneath the 6x6 destructible rocks. -Removed the drop zone in the main. -The mains can now by cliff-walked from the side paths, making Reapers a possible build on this map. This also increases the areas where Siege Tanks can cliff the main. -Doodads. Lots and lots of doodads.
Wow, thats pretty impressive. By far your best map! I like it a lot now.
Do you know if the main can be sieged from the lowground expo? If so, you should probably move the minerals a bit to prevent it.
Nice job on the doodads, it gives it a nice character. Not sure about so many of the decals, but its your choice. I think the man-made sections could use a bit more detail. Here is a mock-up image I did, just to give you an idea:
Wow, thats pretty impressive. By far your best map! I like it a lot now.
Do you know if the main can be sieged from the lowground expo? If so, you should probably move the minerals a bit to prevent it.
Nice job on the doodads, it gives it a nice character. Not sure about so many of the decals, but its your choice. I think the man-made sections could use a bit more detail. Here is a mock-up image I did, just to give you an idea:
WTF now I feel inferior...
What doodads did you use? I think I know about the bridge, crashed Phoenixes, and the supply crates, but where did you get the rubble on the ground by the minerals and those pipes? Those are cool! Also what is that center Protoss pad thingy?
I don't know if the main can be sieged from there, I'm going to have to check, I'll fix that soon though.
EDIT: I'm going online now to host some games on the current version btw.
EDIT 2: I wanted to go for more of a Xel'naga/Protoss look than a Terran/human look.
Wow, thats pretty impressive. By far your best map! I like it a lot now.
Do you know if the main can be sieged from the lowground expo? If so, you should probably move the minerals a bit to prevent it.
Nice job on the doodads, it gives it a nice character. Not sure about so many of the decals, but its your choice. I think the man-made sections could use a bit more detail. Here is a mock-up image I did, just to give you an idea:
WTF now I feel inferior...
What doodads did you use? I think I know about the bridge, crashed Phoenixes, and the supply crates, but where did you get the rubble on the ground by the minerals and those pipes? Those are cool! Also what is that center Protoss pad thingy?
I don't know if the main can be sieged from there, I'm going to have to check, I'll fix that soon though.
EDIT: I'm going online now to host some games on the current version btw.
Just look through the doodads! Heh, it's not hard to place. Just have to find what looks nice, and then put masses of stuff (but make sure it fits with the theme).
On May 04 2011 09:34 SidianTheBard wrote: Here's a picture of some ideas for you to think about. =) + Show Spoiler +
Good ideas here. I agree that you should probably make the natural choke a bit tighter. Also the middle would be nice to be more open, maybe put 2 rocks in a row and make the choke bigger?
Ok. I'm not going to make the choke as tight as it is in the image, that's too tight, but I will make it tighter. I forgot to re add those losbs outside the third and will add them tomorrow. I'll make it two rocks in the mid
On May 07 2011 06:09 Antares777 wrote: Too lazy for a change log...
Too lazy for a proper comment :p Go 4 it and submit ^^
Fine.
Change Log: -Natural choke is now 9 units wide, smaller than before. -The fourth is slightly larger because the high ground area was shrunk. -The high ground area mentioned above is now pathable. -The 6x6 rocks have been replaced with rocks that are much larger so that the choke could be widened. -I got rid of the fire. There's still some there, but as much. -Doodads. -Changed the main's mineral line so that the geysers and workers cannot be sieged from the fifths.
I sent the file last night, and hope that this will make it to the final five!
@Gara - I'm glad that you like the texturing and aesthetics, I have put a lot of time in just thinking about what I wanted the map to look like
@Sidian - Haha yeah the flow is a little awkward when you get your fifth expansion. The fifth expansion can be either yours or your opponents, which I always thought was a little interesting. Your idea for a fifth isn't a bad idea either. So far in test games no one has gotten a fifth base up, but expect changes if I feel they are necessary. One downfall of having an expansion there would be that Terran would be able to lock down that path with Siege Tanks, which I am not in favor of.
...and I was going to say something else but I somehow forgot...
EDIT: Remembered. Anyone willing to help me get analyzer pictures for this map? I only need openness, summary, main to main distances, and nat to nat distances.
EPT
I like how you include several paths with nice expansions on either side, it reminds me of Matchpoint from Brood War.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qUjG3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/DWfYv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HvwTD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pXnUA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RT4UC.jpg)
