[M] Big Game Hunters 180x180

Barrin

United States4998 Posts

December 20 2010 02:16 GMT

Big Game Hunters 180x180

(Published name: "True Big Game Hunters")

Creation Details:

I decided to create this map because of this thread.

Special Thanks:

Everyone in the thread linked above who gave input.

tsuxiit + Show Spoiler +

for being the original poster in the thread linked above

Day[9] + Show Spoiler +

for truly motivating me

TexSC + Show Spoiler +

for the idea of an overlay and bringing the idea even farther into comparing .gif files. And for being the Official Nitpicker. Btw sry for not getting you to help playtest it

We still can if you want

WniO + Show Spoiler +

for doing internal private testing

FlopTurnReaver + Show Spoiler +

for publishing on EU server

pinktemplar + Show Spoiler +

for the first post on the third page in this thread

+ Show Spoiler [small disclaimer] +

I in no way/shape/form/idea intend to "steal thunder" from Koagel who also created his own version. After testing, I feel the size of his version (156x156) might be a little closer to optimal than mine (180x180). + Show Spoiler +

Btw I think the "optimal size" is very close to 165x165. Unfortunately I am not redoing this version as I think it's actually just fine and I spent more time than I should have on it anyway

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays lulul

Pictures:

Original BGH:
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Overview:
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Aesthetics:
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10:30 Main/Nat
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12:00 Main/Nat
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1:30 Main/Nat
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3:00 Main/Nat
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4:50 Main/Nat
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6:00 Main/Nat
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7:30 Main/Nat
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9:00 Main/Nat
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Middle
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Terrain Progression GIF (trying to get terrain layout perfect)
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Terrain Finished GIF (this is where I decided that the terrain was perfect for 180x180)
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Texture/Lighting Progression GIF (trying to get texture/lighting perfect)
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Finished GIF (comparing where I stopped trying to make it look like the original to the original)
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Analyzer Openness
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Ignore those weird places in the river where the analyzer thinks it's pathable... it's not. I am reporting it to dimfish soon.

Walling (click on picture for closeup; its hard to see)
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Siege Tank Range (click on picture for closeup; its hard to see)
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Pylon Range (click on picture for closeup; its hard to see)
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Other Small Things That Make it Feel Like the Original:

Initially black (not just greyed out) fog of war
Minerals in main pushed up to wall (starting locations not precisely in line with original)
50000 Resources for each minerals/gas field
I made it so that each geyser returns 8 before they're depleted. I personally think that 2 gas geysers in SC2 is roughly equivalent to 1 gas geyser in SC1. Putting 4 gas geysers per base looked really stupid >.< (And requires extra food to mine them).
Gas geysers will still return 2 gas when they run out
There are 4 levels of terrain. 0(dead space), 1(lowest pathable level), 2(medium pathable level), 3(highest pathable level). 0-1 transition cliffs are very tall, much taller than it looks like in the original. So I used a 1-2 cliff transition for the rivers, which looks much closer to BW style. (Level 2 is the pathable terrain, there is no level 0 in this map).
Top left (11:30) position's cliff above mineral line in main can have a siege tank dropped on it (just like original; I had to manipulate pathing fairly carefully to make this happen).
Bottom left (7:30) position can be proxy pylon blocked with a cannon behind mineral line (just like original).
Lighting had to be manipulated carefully in conjunction with a custom texture set to make it look as closely as possible to the original. PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS MAP IS INTENDED TO BE VIEWED WITH TEXTURE SETTING ON "LOW". Custom Texture List:
- Agria Dirt
- Aiur Dirt
- Typhon Dirt
- Port Zion Grass
- Typhon Grass
- Xil Grass
- Aiur Small Bricks

Final Comments:
There is a good chance that 180x180 might be a little too big. However, I would like to draw your attention to the last 4 images in the picture section.

The openness level really seems perfect to me! Like dead perfect.

The siege tank range also seems perfect to me! o.O

The walling potential seems pretty damn good to me! O.o WniO said that the walling size was perfect, but he also said that when he spawned in the area with the smallest walls overall (by a small margin).

The pylon range is very intriguing IMO. The smaller you make the map, the easier it will be for people to warp in entire armies directly into your base. With this size it's possible, but it's much harder and it takes some extra time. This part right here makes me feel that 180x180 might actually be perfect.

These 4 things really make it seem like 180x180 is actually just fine to me. Perhaps the biggest drawback is that the rush distances are roughly 25% longer than the original. Maybe something like 165x165 would be better overall. But really, that's the key concept here: overall. As long as we're using the sc2 format with sc2 units and sc2 mechanics, no conversions of this map will ever play quite like the original. There are several sliding scales that are independant of each other but dependant on the map size; the 4-5 I mentioned here are the most important ones. Again: I don't know; maybe 180x180 is a little too big; maybe ~165x165 would be a little better. It's all pretty ambiguous really, but I hope you like this version, because I don't plan on redoing it

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays

This map is published with open source on the NA server (now also on EU).
Btw ~~it's a Custom Map (NOT A MELEE MAP), and~~ I enabled all types of play (2v2v2v2, ffa, 3v3, etc etc etc)
It's called "True Big Game Hunters"

If you want to play this game with me I'm totally down! PM me on teamliquid, and/or add me in-game Barrin.567

If you play a game on this map please upload a link to it in this thread

Much luv~
- Barrin

iGrok

United States5008 Posts

December 20 2010 02:30 GMT

Thanks. This is awesome.

Chairman Ray

United States11513 Posts

December 20 2010 02:42 GMT

Good job!

Can you maybe fix some of the imbalances in that map? A major one is how 11 and 12 share a natural but no other spawn does.

Koagel

Austria167 Posts

December 20 2010 02:56 GMT

Thanks, but my version isn't published yet. I'm currently focusing on other maps and may or may not finish mine.

Your layout is much closer to the original, almost perfect if it was not for the size. The texturing is so oldschool it makes me want to reduce the resolution to 640x480. xD

swymaboi

Canada85 Posts

December 20 2010 03:06 GMT

I can't seem to find it on the NA server

yoplate

United States328 Posts

December 20 2010 03:46 GMT

Yay, BGH was so much fun in SCBW. I hope this is as awesome.

Cyber_Cheese

Australia3609 Posts

December 20 2010 04:18 GMT

On December 20 2010 11:56 Koagel wrote:
Your layout is much closer to the original, almost perfect if it was not for the size. The texturing is so oldschool it makes me want to reduce the resolution to 640x480. xD

ill share that sentiment, excellent work barrin
depleted gas returning 2? im curious if the geysers return more per trip if your changing it to even include things like that.
this remake has the same number of geysers as the original, but sc2 geysers return 4 because theres 2/base where bw returned 8 off 1

Fontong

United States6454 Posts

December 20 2010 04:28 GMT

On December 20 2010 11:42 Chairman Ray wrote:
Good job!

Can you maybe fix some of the imbalances in that map? A major one is how 11 and 12 share a natural but no other spawn does.

I thought the entire point of playing BGH was the imbalances

Spawning at 11 with an opponent at 12 was always awesome because you knew it would usually be finished with the most effective rush you could muster. BGH would be pretty mundane if it wasn't so imbalanced; when you play on it you always get to think about what you are going to do based on the spawn positions. No two games are ever the same because all the teams/players keep moving around.

iGrok

United States5008 Posts

December 20 2010 04:29 GMT

on bgh there were 2 on bw.

Barrin

United States4998 Posts

December 20 2010 05:05 GMT

#10

Can you maybe fix some of the imbalances in that map? A major one is how 11 and 12 share a natural but no other spawn does.

The general consensus in the thread that inspired this was that the imbalances were awesome & what made the map :X Here I'll show you :O

Poll: Should the imbalances be removed?

No (80)

86%

Yes (13)

14%

93 total votes

Your vote: Should the imbalances be removed?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

I can't seem to find it on the NA server

hmm.. Well it was there you just had to use certain search terms. I fixed it. It is now called "True Big Game Hunters" (sorry for the rather pretentious name I couldn't really think of anything else that would work). It now shows up on that huge list when you just type in "Big Game Hunters"

depleted gas returning 2? im curious if the geysers return more per trip if your changing it to even include things like that.
this remake has the same number of geysers as the original, but sc2 geysers return 4 because theres 2/base where bw returned 8 off 1

Oh yeah I made it so that each geyser returns 8 before they're depleted. I personally think that 2 gas geysers in SC2 is roughly equivalent to 1 gas geyser in SC1. Putting 4 gas geysers per base looked really stupid >.< (And requires extra food to mine them). I forgot to put this in the OP I will in a second.

Thanks for positive feedback appreciate it

iGrok

United States5008 Posts

December 20 2010 05:10 GMT

#11

Gas is more necessary in SC2 than BW. Perhaps make it return 10, so double what a 2gas expo in SC2 would give.

Barrin

United States4998 Posts

December 20 2010 05:15 GMT

#12

Gas is more necessary in SC2 than BW. Perhaps make it return 10, so double what a 2gas expo in SC2 would give.

I have heard that this is true. However, in my non-extensive tests I had copious amounts of gas in the early/mid game (lots of sentries as protoss) on just 2 geysers... However it did seem to take a long ass time to get max food of mutalisks off of 3 geysers*... Hmmm...

Please only vote in this poll after playing this map at least once

Poll: Should the number of gas returned per trip be increased?

No (24)

59%

Yes (17)

41%

41 total votes

Your vote: Should the number of gas returned per trip be increased?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Galaxy77

Hong Kong254 Posts

December 20 2010 05:18 GMT

#13

The issue of pylons being able to warp straight into your neighbouring opponents base seems like a huge balance issue.. o_o

Barrin

United States4998 Posts

December 20 2010 05:21 GMT

#14

The issue of pylons being able to warp straight into your neighbouring opponents base seems like a huge balance issue.. o_o

You should try smaller versions ^_^_^ (i.e. every single other version) + Show Spoiler +

(actually... dont... just try this one ^_^_^)

Anyways imbalance is the spirit of this map

Creates funsies. I think that's one of the funnest ones too lol.

G_Wen

Canada517 Posts

December 20 2010 05:45 GMT

#15

The idea of a balanced BGH is humorous. Still GJ on the map. Textures remind me of W3 and it is very faithful to the original. Can't say I'll be playing on it though.

prodiG

Canada2015 Posts

December 20 2010 05:56 GMT

#16

THIS IS FUCKEN SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYICK

I'm actually super excited. Where is my phantom bgh port! Where is my phantom bgh with SC1 units port!
:D!!!!!!!!!

nalgene

Canada2145 Posts

December 20 2010 06:09 GMT

#17

most sc2 maps are 128x128 and they are considered "small"
but 128x128 is good enough for Benzene/Fighting Spirit
but for sc2, that would probably be much bigger than 128x128

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/407_Benzene
image there

Barrin

United States4998 Posts

December 20 2010 06:14 GMT

#18

THIS IS FUCKEN SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYICK

I'm actually super excited. Where is my phantom bgh port! Where is my phantom bgh with SC1 units port!
:D!!!!!!!!!

>>>>.<<<<
^_^_^_^_^_^

[epeen] You know it's funny because in my day for SC1/BW mapmaking ~7-10 years ago I knew every single trigger by heart. I barely touched on melee maps (Though I made a couple I think.. only 1 that was a serious attempt at balance). There was literally nothing you could do with any editor that I couldn't also do, and if there was then I had pretty much every connection to find out how. I was even in on some beta testing of private release editors/programs and I could do things that almost nobody else could. [/epeen] But I haven't even touched the trigger editor in sc2 yet (Though that is a long-term goal)! lol. If someone else wants to turn this into a phantom BGH then please do, just let me know ^_^. Also a long-term goal of mine is to make a mod with all BW units that act as closely as possible to the original, using the mpq data files to make everything proportional.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States9362 Posts

December 20 2010 06:54 GMT

#19

Wow EPIC OP

This is EPICLY well done

in the most EPIC OF HIGHEST QUALITIES

i think you get the point!

everything about this post and your work is good good good! (omg the lightning/look is SO CLOSE! well it's fine the way it is, sc2 should look different from sc1)

Thanks so much look forward to playing on this

Coriolis

United States1152 Posts

December 20 2010 07:11 GMT

#20

Wow that is really well done. I'm not sure anyone could do it any better. Seems like warp ins might complicate the map, but hey BGH was always about the imbalances.

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