|
Hello, this is a big update of one of my previous maps, Princess Fortress.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/3PkSk.jpg)
This map is bigger than its predecessor, the size is 148*148 whereas the old one was 128*128.
I also changed the tileset, i know it doesn't look like a fortress anymore, just imagine that it was one before and a city has been built around it. :p
Now, important stuff:
- scouting distances:
- Close position:
- Main to main: 36 seconds
- Nat to nat: 21 seconds
- Cross position:
- Main to main: 46 seconds
- Nat to nat: 30 seconds
- Number of mineral patches/gas per expand:
- Main: 8 patches 2 gas
- Natural: 7 patches 2 gas
- Third: 6 patches 2 gas
- Island: 7 patches 2 gas
- Width of the paths via MapAnalyzer
+ Show Spoiler +
- Main to nat distance with creep tumors
+ Show Spoiler +Two creep tumors are needed to link the main to the nat.
- The natural
+ Show Spoiler +Natural's ramp is 14 squares wide, note that the nat is on highground, that gives an advantage to the defender.
- Reaper Climbing
+ Show Spoiler +There stairs are here to help the reapers a little more, without these stairs, the path for the reapers would be really small.
- The area in front of the nat
+ Show Spoiler +Three very separated paths lead to the nat, two large from the plateaus and a tight one from the middle.
- The plateau
+ Show Spoiler +The plateau gives the opportunity to take an expo relatively easily and also the control of the xel naga tower, these towers don't give vision to the lowground path.
- The middle
+ Show Spoiler +Four paths lead to the middle, it is large and flat. The entrances to the middle are tight and quite long chokes.
- The islands
+ Show Spoiler +The islands are blocked from floating buildings with 2 mineral patches with 5minerals inside them. Collect the central one to build your nexus/hatch/CC
- Where can the tanks shoot from
+ Show Spoiler +At least it's less than in the most blizz maps.
- The Expand layout
+ Show Spoiler +This is how i would expand during matches on this map. Expand layout for players during close position match. RED: Player1 BLUE: Player2 CIRCLE: Start location CROSS: Expand PURPLE CROSS: Expand harder to take for each player. YELLOW: Short route ORANGE: medium-sized route GREEN: Long route Expand layout for players during cross position match. RED: Player1 BLUE: Player2 CIRCLE: Start location CROSS: Expand DARK GREEN CROSS: These expos are more ambiguous because of the same distances from the third expo. YELLOW: Short route ORANGE: medium-sized route( Nore that there are 2 medium-sized routes)
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES51102 Posts
can a seige tank shoot into the main from the thirds?
|
|
|
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional?
|
On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional?
I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches).
|
On October 15 2010 00:18 BLinD-RawR wrote:
can a seige tank shoot into the main from the thirds?
almost every map a siege tank can shoot into the main rather easily... from many locations. this map u should worry about that very little so why ask that i dont know.
anyways, the map looks... good. id like to play some games and see how it flows.
|
On October 15 2010 00:25 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional? I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches).
There isn't, this is the purpose of the second mineral field.
|
On October 15 2010 00:26 Superouman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:25 monitor wrote:On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional? I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches). There isn't, this is the purpose of the second mineral field.
You mention they have 5 minerals in the patch but if you load up an OC with scvs you can drop them mid air, have the mine out the patch and then land your CC. Alternatively if you were really determined you can build a refinery, mine gas and minerals until you can land your OC.
|
On October 15 2010 00:35 G_Wen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:26 Superouman wrote:On October 15 2010 00:25 monitor wrote:On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional? I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches). There isn't, this is the purpose of the second mineral field. You mention they have 5 minerals in the patch but if you load up an OC with scvs you can drop them mid air, have the mine out the patch and then land your CC. Alternatively if you were really determined you can build a refinery, mine gas and minerals until you can land your OC.
You can't drop mid air though.
|
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?!
|
On October 15 2010 00:37 Superouman wrote:
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?!
On October 15 2010 00:37 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:35 G_Wen wrote:On October 15 2010 00:26 Superouman wrote:On October 15 2010 00:25 monitor wrote:On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional? I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches). There isn't, this is the purpose of the second mineral field. You mention they have 5 minerals in the patch but if you load up an OC with scvs you can drop them mid air, have the mine out the patch and then land your CC. Alternatively if you were really determined you can build a refinery, mine gas and minerals until you can land your OC. You can't drop mid air though.
Yes. You can, test it.
|
On October 15 2010 00:37 G_Wen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:37 Superouman wrote:
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?! Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:37 monitor wrote:On October 15 2010 00:35 G_Wen wrote:On October 15 2010 00:26 Superouman wrote:On October 15 2010 00:25 monitor wrote:On October 15 2010 00:24 G_Wen wrote:
Island expansions can be taken by an OC with SCVs loaded inside, is this intentional? I don't think theres room for the CC to land (thus the two mineral patches). There isn't, this is the purpose of the second mineral field. You mention they have 5 minerals in the patch but if you load up an OC with scvs you can drop them mid air, have the mine out the patch and then land your CC. Alternatively if you were really determined you can build a refinery, mine gas and minerals until you can land your OC. You can't drop mid air though. Yes. You can, test it.
Oh my god you can!
edit: Wow blizzard, what are we supposed to do with islands now?!
|
On October 15 2010 00:37 Superouman wrote:
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?!
yeah. but if you leave it the way it is... i mean it still takes some micro to do the mining and a its a slight delay. 
|
This is retarded.
I also noticed that you can land a mule and collect it. 
|
On October 15 2010 00:41 OneFierceZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 00:37 Superouman wrote:
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?! yeah. but if you leave it the way it is... i mean it still takes some micro to do the mining and a its a slight delay.
But thats a clear advantage to Terran early 3rds.
Oh yeah, mules would work too... Maybe 500 hp destro. rocks?
|
Seems the island problem would be solved with destructible rocks...
Well I just read this edit:
Oh yeah, mules would work too... Maybe 500 hp destro. rocks?
Problem is there is no easy way to change the hp of the rocks, maybe some custom triggers but I tend to stay as far away from those as possible when making melee maps.
|
Neutral buildings. Barracks could do it, they are 1000hp.
|
On October 15 2010 00:50 Superouman wrote:
Neutral buildings. Barracks could do it, they are 1000hp.
The only problem I have with that is you now have a barracks on an island expansion, and that's just weird...
|
Ah, i know. The destructible Garage has 400hp, large garage 600hp, destructible statue has 200hp.
200hp is too low imo but it would look like in a cool way ;D
The 600hp large garage is the best imo.
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES51102 Posts
On October 15 2010 00:50 Superouman wrote:
Neutral buildings. Barracks could do it, they are 1000hp.
Try Zerg eggs.Think Triathlon.
|
Islands with five minerals is bad. REALLY bad. It does.. Nothing. Five minerals is enough for the worker that is building the CC to gather. I mean, if you can get a drone there, you can just take the 5 minerals and build the hatchery. Same with probes. Same with SCVs. It makes no real difference whatsoever.
The corner in the mains with sightblockers seems just too forced. I never really liked it on Metalopolis, and I don't like it here either.
Are the reaper climbing stairs wide enough to drop a tank to? Because if so, that can be really really really annoying.
Four islands might be too much. I don't think any map has that many.
Apart from those things, though, this looks really good. It feels open enough to actually fight in, with quite a few attack paths when people are taking their thirds. I really dislike the prominence of the islands, though, as it really promotes air superiority a lot. You can effectively ignore the slightly risky middle completely by just taking a few island expansions instead.
|
The 5mineral block is supposed to prevent the command center to land, nothing more. I didn't know that orbital commands can unload units in air.
|
dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Way better then the first version. Nothing more to say.
|
Dude, its so much bigger than before: the middle plateaus look like a really nice size for action. I think what I really like about this map is that the layout is so simple and effective, nice map!
Also, I like that hex-cluster of decoration buildings in SW, caught my eye
|
I can see how much time you put in the textures and the looks generally but I liked the one before a lot more
But yeah, the map's still solid and one of the really good maps out there. Just not a fan of those islands.
|
i think people are confusing orbital command with the word command center... orbitals cant load units?
|
Beautiful! The design is awesome!
|
It looks like the mineral patches on the thirds and islands are pushed up against the edges of the cliffs. Why is this? You need to make sure there is room for MULEs to get around and not get stuck as sometimes they get spawned behind the minerals. It also may make defending against air more difficult.
Also, it's very brown...
|
The area in front of your nat concerns me very much, getting out of a contain is going to be hard as hell if your opponent has tanks on those ramps. U could plant 4 tanks on each side of the central path (on top of the ramps) and they would all be able to cover each other and all 3 exits from your base.
|
Looks nice (I don't mind the brownness).
Only thing is: the watchtowers only give you sight of the plateau they're on. You can already see about half of that (I guess) if you expand there. And if you do, you're likely to keep atleast some of your forces on the ramp to defend. So you already know what's coming through there. Maybe move the towers a bit so 1 tower covers 2 paths or something?
|
Hyrule19228 Posts
WHY IS THE MAP TEAM OBSESSED WITH SWASITKAS?!
On a different note, I keep expecting Princess Fortress to be very pink.
|
On October 15 2010 05:41 tofucake wrote:
WHY IS THE MAP TEAM OBSESSED WITH SWASITKAS?!
Why is everyone commenting on the maps intentionally searching for them? 
|
On October 15 2010 04:05 BoomStevo wrote:
It looks like the mineral patches on the thirds and islands are pushed up against the edges of the cliffs. Why is this? You need to make sure there is room for MULEs to get around and not get stuck as sometimes they get spawned behind the minerals. It also may make defending against air more difficult.
Also, it's very brown...
They can't spawn behind the minerals, i put some "no pathing" layer thing.
On October 15 2010 04:09 Uranium wrote:
The area in front of your nat concerns me very much, getting out of a contain is going to be hard as hell if your opponent has tanks on those ramps. U could plant 4 tanks on each side of the central path (on top of the ramps) and they would all be able to cover each other and all 3 exits from your base.
That means his forces are split in 2 so you can force easily one side and then he loses half of his army and you lose nearly anything.
On October 15 2010 04:21 burningDog wrote:
Looks nice (I don't mind the brownness).
Only thing is: the watchtowers only give you sight of the plateau they're on. You can already see about half of that (I guess) if you expand there. And if you do, you're likely to keep atleast some of your forces on the ramp to defend. So you already know what's coming through there. Maybe move the towers a bit so 1 tower covers 2 paths or something?
You can still put some units on the towers far away from your base.
On October 15 2010 05:41 tofucake wrote:
WHY IS THE MAP TEAM OBSESSED WITH SWASITKAS?!
WHY ARE PEOPLE OBSESSED WITH SWASTIKAS?!
I'm really getting tired of all these people saying "SWASTICA SWASTICA SWASTICA", This map has a rotational symetry so there is something like 90% that there will be a swastica. This is even the Buddhist swastica, not the nazi one. Are you going to die because you can see a swastica?
|
I think the islands would be fine without the mineral patches. I for one want to see some maps with favorable terran expansions, especially after this most recent patch.
Other than that I love the map. Definitely an upgrade from version one.
|
Hyrule19228 Posts
On October 15 2010 05:59 Superouman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:41 tofucake wrote:
WHY IS THE MAP TEAM OBSESSED WITH SWASITKAS?! WHY ARE PEOPLE OBSESSED WITH SWASTIKAS?! I'm really getting tired of all these people saying "SWASTICA SWASTICA SWASTICA", This map has a rotational symetry so there is something like 90% that there will be a swastica. This is even the Buddhist swastica, not the nazi one. Are you going to die because you can see a swastica? No, I'm just ripping on you.
|
Is it me or is this map still kinda cramped and going through the center is still damn close to suicide? Or am I just looking at it wrong/bad preception of space :O
|
This is a much better version of Princess Fortress. Nice job. BTW I hated the other one.
|
Superouman, I love your maps and I think this might be the best one yet. I hope some tournaments take it up!
|
This may seem like a silly question but based on the size of the map I think this map is a 2v2 map right? If this map could do a 1v1 I would imagine that the distances would force very little action in the beginning due to the large rush distance.
|
Looks a bit imba in favor of protoss because of how easy it is to blink up and down ledges, micro colossi, and the big open areas which protoss love to fight in.
|
Was it a design intention to make a map in the shape of a swastika? (In mirror form) Hope it was just a coincidence.
|
On October 15 2010 05:59 Superouman wrote:
I'm really getting tired of all these people saying "SWASTICA SWASTICA SWASTICA", This map has a rotational symetry so there is something like 90% that there will be a swastica. This is even the Buddhist swastica, not the nazi one. Are you going to die because you can see a swastica?
I'm going to kill the next one who will talk about the swastica on this map.
|
On October 15 2010 22:01 Morbid831 wrote:
Was it a design intention to make a map in the shape of a swastika? (In mirror form) Hope it was just a coincidence.
Pretty sure the design was intentional....
|
On October 15 2010 23:54 G_Wen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 22:01 Morbid831 wrote:
Was it a design intention to make a map in the shape of a swastika? (In mirror form) Hope it was just a coincidence. Pretty sure the design was intentional....
Yeah, sadly I think that's true.
Other than that I really like this map as much as most other iCCup maps
|
It's a hindu peace sign.
Peace, people.
Also I really like the map, looks like a great size, might try out a few vs computer games on it now ^^
|
Rooftop battlefield ontop this beauty
![[image loading]](http://s28546.gridserver.com/krishna-talk/graphics/swastica-cross-picts/us-navy-building.jpg)
Clearly the next hot concept.
Can also be made into an island or semi-island map, two reasons to get hated on in one map.
|
Lol does no one realize that a swastika is simply a perfectly symmetrical 4 point design and the only way to avoid one entirely is to make mains and nats follow a direct 45 degree angle away from the center of the map. Any sort of deviation from that angle to the left or right will result in the same deviation throughout and hence a swastika... You really going to let the nazis go ahead and ruin geometry and symmetrical 4 player sc2 maps? Really?
|
On October 16 2010 03:24 konicki wrote:
Lol does no one realize that a swastika is simply a perfectly symmetrical 4 point design and the only way to avoid one entirely is to make mains and nats follow a direct 45 degree angle away from the center of the map. Any sort of deviation from that angle to the left or right will result in the same deviation throughout and hence a swastika... You really going to let the nazis go ahead and ruin geometry and symmetrical 4 player sc2 maps? Really?
Well they couldn't conquer the world so we got to give them something
|
17070 Posts
Alright guys, care to start discussing the map instead of swastikas?
|
Once I noticed this it drove me insane:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vdbKi.jpg)
The trees are only flipped and rotated. The rest of the map is done without repetition of the same elements why should the middle receive less attention. It's like noticing the IGN logo on your Okami case, cannot be unseen.
Something else I couldn't help to notice:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/RYci9.jpg) Knights templar? You decide.
|
I edited the picture in the OP post.
Removed the four plateaus and added one central plateau.
|
I really like the update!
looks even better than before
|
United States10526 Posts
can you land tanks that that ledge from the main to the front of the main???
|
On January 04 2011 05:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
can you land tanks that that ledge from the main to the front of the main???
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't think more of them fit in there.
|
I still think it would look a lot better in Ice tileset. I understand the design changes but not the tileset change.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
The map looks pretty sick. Although tanking up those stairs looks pretty annoying but doesn't seem too bad.
And yes. It's very brown. there could be more aesthetically pleasing tile sets.
Although that Hex shaped buildings in the bottom left were pretty sweet looking.
|
On October 15 2010 00:37 Superouman wrote:
What? You can land SCVs from orbital command like a medivac?!
I'm not sure if this was mentioned to people, but you can't load SCV's into an Orbital Command. You can however, load them into a Command Center.
Good looking map.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/o4oLU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/z4xpV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WLifr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/8UQfR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WzNWJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/7EdMD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/jiMBo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/lCgIP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JE99Y.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ePs2t.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/poNwo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Oml4t.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/715/screenshot2011010322072.jpg)
