EPT[Map] Gaia - Page 2
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
however, aren't the 2 golden expansions too close? if you are able to take one, the other is as easy to take isn't it? | ||
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EnvoYofAiuR
Netherlands71 Posts
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
Did you make it a 3 player map?or just forget to make 6 spawn spot edit- Would love to see some of the older maps like.. Bifrost/Gaema Gowon/Blade Storm/RoV/Char etc | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
On July 24 2010 22:44 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: it looks pretty cool actually. Now I kinda want to see all those sexy old maps again.. Did you make it a 3 player map?or just forget to make 6 spawn spot edit- Would love to see some of the older maps like.. Bifrost/Gaema Gowon/Blade Storm/RoV/Char etc Oh man, RoV and Sin Gaema Gowon, that'd be SWEET! :D | ||
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Madsquare
Germany157 Posts
case 1) if you spawn on the same side (7 & 2 -- 8 & 1) terrans can easily siege push towards the opponent, because you already knock on the naturals door if you are at the centre marking. case 2) if you spawn on any other position, you can put up tanks in the middle and easily ground-control BOTH golds AND the ONLY entrance to your site of the map. some other notes: - artwort is nice so far - whats the intention behind putting rocks at the 3rd; could you explain it to me? i dont get why they are there. | ||
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di4m0nd
United States297 Posts
but ya awsome job now the question is will blizzard put them in the ladder matches.. since it would be really hard to practice them these maps without them behing in the ladder.. if esl or other turnys started allowing the remade maps | ||
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towerranger
Austria134 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On July 24 2010 22:54 Madsquare wrote: this map has a HUGE imbalance favoring terran. case 1) if you spawn on the same side (7 & 2 -- 8 & 1) terrans can easily siege push towards the opponent, because you already knock on the naturals door if you are at the centre marking. case 2) if you spawn on any other position, you can put up tanks in the middle and easily ground-control BOTH golds AND the ONLY entrance to your site of the map. some other notes: - artwort is nice so far - whats the intention behind putting rocks at the 3rd; could you explain it to me? i dont get why they are there. its funny how u mention tanks like that u can move out of ur natural at stepps and u have half map and mapcontrol and can attack zergs natural, what the hell is ur point rofl? once terran steps outside the natural hes ready to get flanked and the size of the middle only favors the defender which in this case would be not terran which means ur tank speech applies alot better to the maps that already exist in the ladder pool. at the end of they day we always end up saying "this is imba to terran because of siege tank", well to be i dont wanna adjust my map balance for the current unit state, it doesnt matter which map u make ppl r always gonna find tanks really strong because they are really strong in general l<o<l. theres gonna be many balance issues from now and if i make standard map concepts like gaia then if that turns out to be imbalanced thats a flaw of blizzard if u can only make a map in a certain way to make it balanced On July 24 2010 22:42 EnvoYofAiuR wrote: nice job, forgot spawn location on 6?;p the editor is sometimes stupid even if u put out the start location sometimes the circle animation around it doesnt appear. but ye its a 4 player map :p On July 24 2010 22:40 ProTosS4EveR wrote: and i was trying to do a bigger middle however, aren't the 2 golden expansions too close? if you are able to take one, the other is as easy to take isn't it? ye thats the first thing u kinda think about when ur a skilled mapmaker from sc1 moving to sc2, always make big and nice areas so u can flank. what ive learned is that u dont actually need that much space in sc2 because units clump and also the reason to flank doesnt exist as much as in sc1 when flanking was huge part of the battles. the middle is actually quite open and is enough for the players to feel like they can flank. sure u can split up the map easier on this map with siege tanks or big toss balls but when u really think about it sc2 is alot about brute forcing the other players army rather than splitting up at all On July 24 2010 23:04 towerranger wrote: blizzard should srsly hire you tnx :D id seriously would love that job. i dont believe blizzard have employees that only make maps tho, but what the hell do i know ^^ all i know is that blizzard has been quite awful at creating competitive maps for over 10 years now On July 24 2010 23:03 di4m0nd wrote: destination, ride of valkury, and andromeda my all time fav maps did anyone remake them yet? but ya awsome job now the question is will blizzard put them in the ladder matches.. since it would be really hard to practice them these maps without them behing in the ladder.. if esl or other turnys started allowing the remade maps oh man u should just use tl's awesome search function http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=destination&t=t&f=-1&u=&gb=date blizzard is probably not gonna add any amatuer maps or have any competitions like for for at least 4 months ahead i think but yes tournaments will and are already interested in maps of mine, maybe not the largest tours like esl or zotac but its definitely starting to head that direction. that was also a big part reason why i started this event: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137820 to get ppl interested at seeing them in competitive play On July 24 2010 22:40 ProTosS4EveR wrote: and i was trying to do a bigger middle however, aren't the 2 golden expansions too close? if you are able to take one, the other is as easy to take isn't it? well if u manage to take 1 u basically have deserved the win anyway because u have total mapcontrol and ur opponent cant do shit about it. kinda like in heartbreak ridge where u took the middle. i could merge the 2 gold expoes into 1 expo like heart or andromeda but that would make flanking harder but also discourage 2x2's gaming on the map. on top of that i think its visually more appealing with 1 gold expo on each side rather than an andromeda expo in the middle. | ||
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di4m0nd
United States297 Posts
oh man u should just use tl's awesome search function http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=destination&t=t&f=-1&u=&gb=date blizzard is probably not gonna add any amatuer maps or have any competitions like for for at least 4 months ahead i think but yes tournaments will and are already interested in maps of mine. that was also a big part reason why i started this event: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137820 to get ppl interested at seeing them in competitive play WOW million thanks time to start up sc2launcher and start bashing some AI Heads on destination.. well i guess i will just have to find me a practice partner to prepair for the turnys now. do you know if esl will put destination/ride of V in??(god i love these 2 maps) thanks agian | ||
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Skruttis
Sweden187 Posts
On July 24 2010 23:19 MorroW wrote: its funny how u mention tanks like that u can move out of ur natural at stepps and u have half map and mapcontrol and can attack zergs natural, what the hell is ur point rofl? once terran steps outside the natural hes ready to get flanked and the size of the middle only favors the defender which in this case would be not terran which means ur tank speech applies alot better to the maps that already exist in the ladder pool. at the end of they day we always end up saying "this is imba to terran because of siege tank", well to be i dont wanna adjust my map balance for the current unit state, it doesnt matter which map u make ppl r always gonna find tanks really strong because they are really strong in general l<o<l. theres gonna be many balance issues from now and if i make standard map concepts like gaia then if that turns out to be imbalanced thats a flaw of blizzard if u can only make a map in a certain way to make it balanced This map isn't imbalanced, but i agree that a big tankpush would cause problem for all races. This just forces the opponents to go for some harrassments, which is very easy due to the close distance by air. The map seems pretty balanced, even if i havn't tried it, but just favor some playstyles. Then, MorroW is a Terranplayer, it's not that wrong to assume he enjoy big tankpushes and therefore wants them to be good. But what i know from his playstyle, he favor mass Barracks over Factorytech. In other words, i don't think he made a map to favor tanks. | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
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MacroNcheesE
United States508 Posts
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
 Btw why are there xel naga towers on every sc2 map ? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be xel naga tower on gaia. But I feel that Xel naga towers are not essential in all sc2 maps. | ||
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hhrn
157 Posts
. I like your version a lot better than my own, the terrain is beautiful, it actually makes the map look like a paradise, and the thought that went into balancing the map is apparent. Great job! | ||
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Jenslyn87
Denmark527 Posts
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Madsquare
Germany157 Posts
you are far superior in playing this game than me, and i respect it. but that alone doesnt make you a far superior map designer and thus the feedback you are receiving is something you should respect too. On July 24 2010 23:19 MorroW wrote: u can move out of ur natural at stepps and u have half map and mapcontrol and can attack zergs natural, what the hell is ur point rofl? the natural-natural distance on steppes of war is greater. on steppes the bases are placed at the very outside of the corners (7 and 2). on gaia they are placed further towards left/right border, thus shortening the rushdistance. also, the lower naturals exit is shifted to the left and the upper one to the right, further increasing the ground distance. on gaia they are straight up frontal. Even though this does leav the centre issue untouched; i tried to point out that the very direct path of the natural-natural might be an issue against terran. there a plenty of solutions. On July 24 2010 23:19 MorroW wrote: at the end of they day we always end up saying "this is imba to terran because of siege tank", well to be i dont wanna adjust my map balance for the current unit state, it doesnt matter which map u make ppl r always gonna find tanks really strong because they are really strong in general l<o<l. theres gonna be many balance issues from now and if i make standard map concepts like gaia then if that turns out to be imbalanced thats a flaw of blizzard if u can only make a map in a certain way to make it balanced I wouldnt say its blizzards fault if somebody creates a map thats imbalanced with the current meta game. maps change with the meta game and mapmakers can either adapt or try something different, wich might reflect in a change of the metagame (luna f.e.). metagame and maps are linked together and mapdesigners cant just blame blizzard for it. i honestly hope you will respect and appreciate the feedback you are getting here. right now it appears you feel personally offended by things written about your maps. greetings, madsquare. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On July 25 2010 01:52 Madsquare wrote: i dont want to argue with you, but you cant just pick up one of my points and bring wrong arguments underlined with an 'im a better player wich means you have no clue'-tone. you are far superior in playing this game than me, and i respect it. but that alone doesnt make you a far superior map designer and thus the feedback you are receiving is something you should respect too. the natural-natural distance on steppes of war is greater. on steppes the bases are placed at the very outside of the corners (7 and 2). on gaia they are placed further towards left/right border, thus shortening the rushdistance. also, the lower naturals exit is shifted to the left and the upper one to the right, further increasing the ground distance. on gaia they are straight up frontal. Even though this does leav the centre issue untouched; i tried to point out that the very direct path of the natural-natural might be an issue against terran. there a plenty of solutions. I wouldnt say its blizzards fault if somebody creates a map thats imbalanced with the current meta game. maps change with the meta game and mapmakers can either adapt or try something different, wich might reflect in a change of the metagame (luna f.e.). metagame and maps are linked together and mapdesigners cant just blame blizzard for it. i honestly hope you will respect and appreciate the feedback you are getting here. right now it appears you feel personally offended by things written about your maps. greetings, madsquare. the thing is the map size of stepps of war is smaller than this map so because u have 2 natural up to the left side of the map like in this map while stepps are more in the middle it doesnt mean anything unless u know the map sizes of the map. maybe stepps distance ramp to ramp is slightly wider about 13 seconds walk but its not gonna be enough of an argument for me to change anything. if i push it back then i end up with too small main base or stalkers having fun between main bases. but from the natural ramp to the other players ledge as we talk about siege tanks is really all u gotta reach, and that distance is closer for sure. so u r not seeing straight and thats why u feel like i disrespect u. i respect what u say but if u make false accouterments and come off as insulting me as a mapmaker then thats what u get. i have respect for opinions as long as they have a steady and right base thats not false, which urs is gaia is just such an old and unsymmetrical map that i feel i could change some sizes here and there the way i like them and the way i feel is best for the map. so just because gaia had the bridge a bit more to this or that side wont make me care, i just wanna grab the concept and try to remake it so it works in modern sc2 this direct path issue sure it might exist, because of the short distances, but if u think about it. in sc1 it was about hard pushing with mines and immobile siege tanks and here. if u take lt close pos to these close pos, the situation is really gonna be same and the players are still gonna have the same units. trust me on that one yes maps change with metagame i agree. so u should make maps that fit in the current position i agree aswell. but look at LT, metalopolis, stepps of war, desert oasis, they are COMPLETELY different so to tell an amatuer mapmaker like myself to actually create balanced maps and follow meta game is ridiculous because its even hard to make maps in the first place. i can make a map and think, alright this looks standard and thats as far as we can go right now. blizzard did a horrible job at "following the meta game" with their maps cause they r totally different so i think u come off as a jackass expecting me to come here with a balanced map when the game itself is far from balanced i like feedback and ppl telling me the flaws in my maps as long as they have respect of how hard it is and that they actually are right in what they say. and ur the opposite. i remember having the exact same argument with u a few weeks ago about a past map. ur not helping the situation at all because ur wrong about the distance thing or w/e and ur accusing me of being bm and u stick it out so obvious to make me look like the bad person. i dont want ur feedback and i dont appreciate it 1 bit i hope i didnt fear anyone else from saying their opinions, im very glad to get anything as long as they are based on actual truth, thats more productive. but to say "distance as close nat to nat" is pretty unlogical seeing as an issue when we have stepps of war lt close pos metalopolis close pos etc. its practically the same as a gamer when it comes to timing attacks u shouldnt even open ur mouth about imbalance when ur up against a player like me in an argument. this got nothing to do with mapmaking, didnt matter which map it was, my word will mean more than urs because i am better, thats the hard truth and being good at the game reflects ALOT on being good at casting or making maps. so walk the walk before u talk the talk, thats something tasteless taught me theres so many ppl on the forum who have helped me with the maps and i respect and thanked them alot for it. its not like i go berserk at any suggestion i get. u just need to base ur statements on something that is true, thats the first thing u need to get right else ur opinion or statement is based on nothing ergo ur suggestion means nothing. and if u have a bad attitude along with it u just come off as an ass with no clue. it just happens to be that u have no clue and i am better, but u have no clue not because i am better, its just because u have no clue On July 24 2010 08:22 darkzeratul wrote: Would Siege Tanks reach the gold minerals in Siege mode from the cliffs? That would suck lol.. Other then that great work! take this guy as example, he asks nice and gentle insetad of going "OMG THIS MAP IS HUGE IMBALANCE TO TERRAN BECAUSE SIEGE TANKS CAN ATTACK GOLD". instead sinces hes not 100% sure he goes ahead and ask off a really solid ground to base a statement "gold might be to be taken down from the cliffs by tank" and his opinion "that would favor terran". this is how u make comments without pissing the mapper off, this is what mapmakers wanna hear because its productive gentle and a nice observation in general | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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