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[Tool] SC2 Map Analyzer - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
June 26 2010 08:17 GMT
#61
Suggested new feature: Mineral node distance analysis - Distance of the mineral nodes from the main building often differs in different base locations. Thus different amount of workers is needed to fully saturate bases in different locations. The new feature would allow to check that corresponding base locations are equal regarding mineral node placement.
ashburn
Profile Joined March 2010
Singapore76 Posts
June 26 2010 08:52 GMT
#62
Great stuff! Thanks
monkh
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom568 Posts
June 26 2010 14:16 GMT
#63
Think i have found a bug. On latest map ive made its not calculating all resources around a couple of expansions.

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/modern-warefare/images/4-base-balance-using-map-analyzer/

3o'clock expansion shows 9.5k resources several of the minerals aren't calculated and also the lower natural expansion shows 15.5k resources this one may be due to them being 1 further out but top natural also has this and is calculated right.
Daeden.620
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-26 17:30:06
June 26 2010 17:15 GMT
#64
I found why it was printing the whole map path instead of the map name and it also had to do with the path. If I place the map in the same directory as the exe and I type :
sc2mapanalyzer.exe mymap.SC2Map
Everything works fine, it prints the name of the map. But if the map is still in the same directory and I type sc2mapanalyzer.exe and drag my map in the console it writes this in the console :

sc2mapanalyzer.exe "C:\Documents and Settings\...\Bureau\sc2mapanalyzer-release-1.2\sc2mapanalyzer-release-1.2\mymap.SC2Map"
And now in the generated picture it prints the whole path to the map instead of its name.

Also I just noticed if I just run sc2mapanalyzer.exe without typing a map name, it will process the map that's in the the directory but it won't print a map name at all, just "Shortest path - natural - 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock" and not the name of the map. The picture filename will be called sc2map-shortestPaths.... for example.


Another thing, I suggested that you could measure the distance from the main to the 3rd expansion but I think you missunderstood what I meant. I meant while I'm making a map if I want to have my 3rd expansion as far as in Metalopolis for example I could run your program to know the distance from the main to the 3rd in Metalopolis and then in my map and know how my 3rd compares to Metalopolis. Because the way I have to do it at the moment is I have to run the game, make a probe travel there, then run the demo and check how much time it took. Then do it again on Metalopolis to have a reference. If your program could measure that distance it would be faster to tweak the map.

Also about the alternate route maybe a way to do it would be in the GalaxyEditor to place a point (from the Point layer toolbar) that would act as a waypoint, and give it an obvious name. So your program would just have have to calculate the distance from the main to that waypoint, then from the waypoint to the enemy's main. And if I place 2 waypoints it would calculate the distance
Main->1st Waypoint->Opponent's Main
and then
Main->2nd Waypoint->Opponent's Main
This way you could have different alternate routes.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
June 26 2010 17:46 GMT
#65
On June 26 2010 14:00 dimfish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2010 05:38 monkh wrote:
I don't think it recognises areas blocked by doodads (i think) i had area blocked by trees on one of my maps and it didn't seem to account for them in travelling distances


Yes, you are right. The main project page over at SC2Mapster explains the problem in detail. Essentially the map data says "put a tree here, put a mineral patch there, put a destructible rock over there" but doesn't tell you the footprint of any of them! I am currently hard-coding the shape of stuff like the various destructible rocks but it would take eons to write down the footprint of everything in the editor that can block pathing.

Two immediate solutions:
1) ask me for a small list of really important doodads that SC2 Map Analyzer should look for OR
2) temporarily add something the analyzer already recognizes, like destructible rocks, over your important line of trees and then take them out after getting the info you needed.


If you start going down this path, you should see if you could allow users to help with adding doodads. If there was some way (like a text file that could be modified) to add doodads to the list then users would be capable of adding doodads that are important to them or start a community project to get every doodad added. There's no sense in you wasting time adding a ton of doodads when the community can do it much faster.
Logo
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-26 17:58:34
June 26 2010 17:55 GMT
#66
Some doodads block the path and some don't. Like the small rocks block 1 square but the huge rocks don't block anything, you have to paint the no-pathing by hand in the editor. Usually big areas blocked by doodads are blocked with no-pathing too because it's hard to put a doodad on each square, so it's safer to paint the no-pathing than to rely on doodads. So in my opinion you should rather check the pathing layer rather than the doodads, because anyway big areas blocked by doodads will most likely have a no pathing layer.
Also reapers can climb on cliffs corners even if there are doodads up there, so I don't think mappers should rely too much on doodads to block the way.
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
June 26 2010 18:06 GMT
#67
props dude. i'll definitely revisit this thread and see if i can come up with some kooky abuse during the beta. i'm a protoss player, but i've seen zerg and terran do some clever things that i think would be awesome to perfect vs friends when the actual game is released =D
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
June 26 2010 18:14 GMT
#68
On June 26 2010 23:16 monkh wrote:
Think i have found a bug. On latest map ive made its not calculating all resources around a couple of expansions.

http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/modern-warefare/images/4-base-balance-using-map-analyzer/

3o'clock expansion shows 9.5k resources several of the minerals aren't calculated and also the lower natural expansion shows 15.5k resources this one may be due to them being 1 further out but top natural also has this and is calculated right.


It's awesome that you guys are already digging into this pig--and believe me I will squash every problem in my power. This weekend my brother is visiting from east coast so I'll only be checking on this thread a bit and not able to do any modifications, but I'll try answer questions for the time being.

@monkh: I think you are experiencing an unfortunate side-effect of the tool's approximation of pathing. If you read the analysis details page over at SC2Mapster you'll see the section where I want to use t3SyncPathingInfo which is the optimum, but instead I have to use t3CellFlags. The problem is that the pathing approximation from t3CellFlags pushes the unpathable areas out to where units can walk in-game. This is why the skinniest possible ramp (diagonal) appears to be blocked. I think what's going on for you is that the minerals are too close to the cliff and the base algorithm thinks they are decorations (because they are unreachable). Try an experiment of adding extra space behind the mineral line and see if the tool picks up the missing patches.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
June 26 2010 18:15 GMT
#69
On June 27 2010 02:15 chuky500 wrote:
I found why it was printing the whole map path instead of the map name and it also had to do with the path. If I place the map in the same directory as the exe and I type :
sc2mapanalyzer.exe mymap.SC2Map
Everything works fine, it prints the name of the map. But if the map is still in the same directory and I type sc2mapanalyzer.exe and drag my map in the console it writes this in the console :

sc2mapanalyzer.exe "C:\Documents and Settings\...\Bureau\sc2mapanalyzer-release-1.2\sc2mapanalyzer-release-1.2\mymap.SC2Map"
And now in the generated picture it prints the whole path to the map instead of its name.

Also I just noticed if I just run sc2mapanalyzer.exe without typing a map name, it will process the map that's in the the directory but it won't print a map name at all, just "Shortest path - natural - 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock" and not the name of the map. The picture filename will be called sc2map-shortestPaths.... for example.


Another thing, I suggested that you could measure the distance from the main to the 3rd expansion but I think you missunderstood what I meant. I meant while I'm making a map if I want to have my 3rd expansion as far as in Metalopolis for example I could run your program to know the distance from the main to the 3rd in Metalopolis and then in my map and know how my 3rd compares to Metalopolis. Because the way I have to do it at the moment is I have to run the game, make a probe travel there, then run the demo and check how much time it took. Then do it again on Metalopolis to have a reference. If your program could measure that distance it would be faster to tweak the map.

Also about the alternate route maybe a way to do it would be in the GalaxyEditor to place a point (from the Point layer toolbar) that would act as a waypoint, and give it an obvious name. So your program would just have have to calculate the distance from the main to that waypoint, then from the waypoint to the enemy's main. And if I place 2 waypoints it would calculate the distance
Main->1st Waypoint->Opponent's Main
and then
Main->2nd Waypoint->Opponent's Main
This way you could have different alternate routes.


Excellent, all your observations and suggestions noted!
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
June 26 2010 18:16 GMT
#70
On June 27 2010 02:46 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2010 14:00 dimfish wrote:
On June 26 2010 05:38 monkh wrote:
I don't think it recognises areas blocked by doodads (i think) i had area blocked by trees on one of my maps and it didn't seem to account for them in travelling distances


Yes, you are right. The main project page over at SC2Mapster explains the problem in detail. Essentially the map data says "put a tree here, put a mineral patch there, put a destructible rock over there" but doesn't tell you the footprint of any of them! I am currently hard-coding the shape of stuff like the various destructible rocks but it would take eons to write down the footprint of everything in the editor that can block pathing.

Two immediate solutions:
1) ask me for a small list of really important doodads that SC2 Map Analyzer should look for OR
2) temporarily add something the analyzer already recognizes, like destructible rocks, over your important line of trees and then take them out after getting the info you needed.


If you start going down this path, you should see if you could allow users to help with adding doodads. If there was some way (like a text file that could be modified) to add doodads to the list then users would be capable of adding doodads that are important to them or start a community project to get every doodad added. There's no sense in you wasting time adding a ton of doodads when the community can do it much faster.


Another great idea--will add a footprint text file that everyone can contribute to!
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
June 27 2010 02:40 GMT
#71
AMAZING, This is fucking brilliant. Thanks
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
June 27 2010 11:49 GMT
#72
Thank you. It is really a great tool.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-28 15:39:24
June 28 2010 06:31 GMT
#73
I followed this instruction
Wherever you decide to store the tool, make sure you leave it with the other files it needs there. Then right-click the sc2mapanalyzer executable and choose to create a shortcut. You can drag that shortcut into a directory with SC2 maps, double-click it, and the tool will analyze all the maps in the directory.

And it kept opening up the cmd with this:
No file arguments, searching current directory for maps . . .
Warning: no map files were analyzed.
To prevent this pause at termination, pass option -p
.Press any key to continue . . .


And then I do and it just closes. I even tried to drag and drop a map onto the exe and it does some shit but then does a similar message which closes cmd once i press any key.
edit- ok it still layed the images out in the program folder, perhaps a way to make the pics save elsewhere?


I dunno if the program can do this but it would be nice if we can redirect the pathing of alternate routes for cliff jumping, walking. A good example would be desert oasis, where a cliff jumper would most likely loop around towards the minerals or there are 2 paths from each main, (and depending on which base you are at the units path this way). And even paths once D-rocks are removed.
Also, could you save the manual into a text document and put it in the zip file.

PS, I noticed some minor errors, when the cliff walk and air are the same distance, the line is slightly shifted on the pic and it says a minor decimal point difference.
Also the cliff walk path doesn't take into consideration when you have pathing blockers laid down on the map. (I could be mistaken and it's just an error on the map though).

PPS- I also noticed that the pathing thing doesn't consider doodads that block.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
June 28 2010 16:31 GMT
#74
Between the helpful posts here and comments at SC2Mapster I am collecting a lot of information about what is going wrong for different people. Please post new problems you find, because I'm collecting all of the issues and will be releasing fixes as soon as they are available. Check the OP for updates.
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
June 29 2010 15:04 GMT
#75
Awesome tool. I could see Blizzard using this themself to make better maps in the future. Definitely something the community will be using a ton.
Scruff
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore509 Posts
June 29 2010 19:40 GMT
#76
This is so impressive. Will definitely be used lots in competitive play!
I astonish myself everyday
Azide
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada566 Posts
June 29 2010 23:14 GMT
#77
Well fucking done.
Azide and SuperNinja - Best Double Protoss 2v2 Team!
ComatoseSoul
Profile Joined June 2010
United States27 Posts
June 30 2010 04:22 GMT
#78
Thanks a TON for this tool. Used it on a map yesterday which helped tremendously with fixing some minor terrain issues. I like the feedback you've been given so far - my only additional suggestions would be:

+ For doodads, start with the path blockers (doodads explicitly called path blockers.)
+ Add circles around watch towers to show their vision.
Channel56k
Profile Joined June 2010
United States413 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 23:16:57
June 30 2010 21:15 GMT
#79
When i run the tool it does not analyze/find any of the maps in the folder with the shortcut. Do i not have the files in the write format? Seems like everyone else is getting this so i suspect im overlooking a simple detail.

EDIT: solved!
"Do yourself a favor, and don't listen to me."
HiOT
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Sweden1000 Posts
June 30 2010 23:05 GMT
#80
On June 30 2010 04:40 Scruff wrote:
This is so impressive. Will definitely be used lots in competitive play!


On June 30 2010 08:14 Azide wrote:
Well fucking done.


On June 30 2010 04:40 Scruff wrote:
This is so impressive. Will definitely be used lots in competitive play!


Jupp, I can't agree more! You sir is a hero in about 3-6 months =)
Officially the founder of Team Property (:
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