• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:00
CEST 05:00
KST 12:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy13ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research7Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Behind the scenes footage of ASL21 Group E BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Build Order Practice Maps Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM [ASL21] Ro24 Group E [ASL21] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7363 users

Who has had a greater impact on the Protoss race? - Page 4

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
May 08 2009 10:25 GMT
#61
On May 08 2009 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2009 14:24 LeperKahn wrote:
On May 08 2009 14:19 iLoveKTF wrote:
Nal_ra no contest. Why the hell is Bisu so close in votes to Nal_ra?!


Making PvZ something winnable seems like an accomplishment to me.
Who originally made PvZ winnable? Nal_ra

Nal_ra's CV trumps all of these players imo. He is the Protoss parallel of Boxer, doing such crazy moves as the Recall rush vs Goodfriend on Parallel lines, 4 probe rushing some poor zerg on LT, and cannon rushing vs terran. He also dominated the shit out of Neo Guillotine, arguably creating the first highly successful FE PvZ build. As time went on, though, he moved onto developing "Splash Protoss" i.e. Sair/Reaver from island only play to standard maps. It became considered the perfect PvZ strategy, and usually opened with a fast expand. Sair/Reaver became a difficult weapon to stop (see Ra vs July on Raid Assault) and it was probably the first big macro revolution in PvZ as well (considering the success of the is semi-dependent on a fast 3rd). But Nal_ra's contribution to PvZ dont end there, Nal_ra also pioneered the use of Reavers in the lategame in PvZ (see the holywars between Nal_ra and savior, check my blog for more details).

His work in PvT is lesser than his PvZ contribution, but nevertheless it is evident. He was one of the first protoss to explore the use of arbiters in PvT (basically unheard of before 2005) which was later developed by Pusan/Anytime/Stork. And then in 2005 he became the first Protoss to successfully execute the 12Nexus on a land map (R-Point) and win. 12Nex quickly became a part of the standard PvT arsenal on big maps (still regularly used today, thx ra!). He is an icon for the Protoss race and is the epitome of everything great about Protoss.

Stork's contributions are quite subtle, and indeed is probably the least influential. In his 2005 days he was one of the best users of Sair/Reaver (see Stork vs Gorush, Stork vs Savior) and assisted in developing the Arbiter (see Nada's tour of Aiur courtesy of Stork) but it wasn't until 2007 when he made significant contributions. His only contribution, really, is the standardization of Modern PvT (ie use of Reavers religiously as an opening after a fast expo). Which isn't quite that impressive.

Bisu's contributions lie in his PvZ ability which lead Protoss onto a great era. His PvT contributions are near zero, although he did assist in developing modern PvT. His use of Corsairs and DT in PvZ is his contribution really.

Reach has done a lot for Protoss over the years. He is the father of Modern Macro Protoss and was the only protoss who could push oov to his limit. In PvZ i'm not quite sure what he did.. My memory gets a little fuzzy before 2005 xD


Plexa, you are my new favourite person. Great brief history of my favourite pro gamer of all time. I would say something about how I can't believe rA isn't rightfully winning this poll, but that'd be a lie; I know why he's not: People are ignorant, but vote anyway. Oh well.

Meanwhile, Garimto being on this poll is understandable, I suppose. He's OLD school. But, although I've been following SC/BW pro-gaming since before Grrrr... defeated H.O.T.-Forever, I don't really remember Garimto for anything except his exceptional Zealot micro. And I have more than 200 replays of the guy. If anyone with a better memory than me could do a brief write-up of Garimto, I'd highly appreciate it.

Here's Garimto's achievements:

- Winner of 6th Sky O­nGameNet StarLeague, beating Boxer 3-2 in the Final (http://www.progamer.ru/champs/ongamenet.html) 2001 - 2002
- 5th Place at 2001 OnGameNet King of King, finished the season with the best win ratio (72,22%) followed by Grrrr... who wins
- 3rd Place at 1st O­nGameNet Habisoft Sky League (http://news.ega.com.cn/html/wz_24/zh_30/2004-05/1083940727.html)
- Winner of 2000 Freechal O­nGameNet StarLeague wining 3-0 over Skelton
- 2nd Place at 1st Hansolm.com Kingdom Under Fire Tournament
- Winner of 1st Miracle StarCraft Tournament
- 2nd Place at Gamei
- 2nd Place at 2000 SBS PKO Kingdom Under Fire Tournament
- Winner of JunJoo Game Festival StarCraft Tournament

Speaking of which, wow, I haven't seen the word "Gamei" in a while. I remember when all my maps had that in the name.

Welp, I'm off to watch old Garimto replays.
TL+ Member
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
May 08 2009 10:39 GMT
#62
Whoever voted Bisu instead of Nal_ra does should be ashamed to call himself a protoss user.
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
StalkerSC
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada378 Posts
May 08 2009 10:53 GMT
#63
Bisu...He pioneered his own build
IIf your good at Starcraft, Your good at life. - Artosis
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 11:10:07
May 08 2009 10:57 GMT
#64
On May 08 2009 19:53 StalkerSC wrote:
Bisu...He pioneered his own build


[image loading]


Okay, can we just reorganize the Teamliquid.net front page to only have pictures that explain why Bisu didn't invent anything?

I love the guy and he's a fantastic player, but hooolllyyy shhiiit, this "Bisu Build" stuff has got to end.
TL+ Member
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
May 08 2009 11:05 GMT
#65
Bisu fanboys are so going to overrun this poll.
POGGERS
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6184 Posts
May 08 2009 11:08 GMT
#66
Nal_rA for sure
n_n
Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
May 08 2009 11:08 GMT
#67
what about grrr!!
kaleidoscope
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Singapore2887 Posts
May 08 2009 11:09 GMT
#68
On May 08 2009 20:05 konadora wrote:
Bisu fanboys are so going to overrun this poll.


Totally.. I voted Nal_rA..
대지따라 돌린게 시간이다.. 흘러가고 돌아오지도 않고..
Clow
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Brazil880 Posts
May 08 2009 11:11 GMT
#69
Bisu going to win, but we all know it was Nal_ra
(–_–) CJ Entusman #33
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
May 08 2009 11:11 GMT
#70
Bisu winning this poll is so sad...
Woo Jung Ho
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
May 08 2009 11:25 GMT
#71
If you really think Bisu invented anything, you might want to take a look at this article.

Even if he did pioneer a build - which he didn't - it would still be a truly minuscule showing compared to every bit of pioneering genius that Nal_rA has done for the Protoss race throughout the ages.

If you haven't been around long enough to have seen the progression of StarCraft progaming, its development through the ages and the pioneers responsible for that development, you are not allowed to vote on any "of all time" poll. Ever. Under any circumstances.
TL+ Member
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
May 08 2009 11:30 GMT
#72
On May 08 2009 20:11 iLoveKTF wrote:
Bisu winning this poll is so sad...

Yes, even if I like Bisu, nal_ra deserves to win this poll.

On May 08 2009 19:53 StalkerSC wrote:
Bisu...He pioneered his own build

If you meant the FE build, Nal_ra pioneered that.

If you meant the sair dt build, it was a variation of Pusan's (?) 1 gate tech build, and I think it was Daezang who first used pure sair dt.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Sprite
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1015 Posts
May 08 2009 11:43 GMT
#73
Nal_ra hes a genius!
Firebathero is still the best!
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines618 Posts
May 08 2009 12:30 GMT
#74
BITCH ASS NEW-GENS-WHO-DONT-KNOW-NAL_RA AUTOVOTING FOR BISU!!!!! -_____-;;
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
May 08 2009 12:31 GMT
#75
Without rA, bisu would never have done what he did.
Hi.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 12:35:07
May 08 2009 12:32 GMT
#76
Voted Reach, just barely over Nal_ra. Some of the comparisons are really apt, like Reach being the Oov for protoss and Ra being the Boxer (which is funny considering when they were both around), but I consider Oov more, overall, influential to how the game is currently played, and if Reach is his equivalent for protoss, then he barely edges out Ra.

edit; blegh my ktf sign is probably gonna make this look more biased than I wanted it to.

For the record, Ra is *definitely* over Bisu(or should be). Bisu build being over what Ra and Reach did is like saying the Flash timing build is over Oov and Boxer, and that's just inane.
Remember Violet.
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
May 08 2009 12:32 GMT
#77
i cant believe bisu is beating ra in this poll
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 12:38:02
May 08 2009 12:37 GMT
#78
Ra innovated a lot, but Bisu literally changed the entire way PvZ is played there's no denying that. Ra didn't have nearly enough dominance in the scene to be as influential as Bisu. Bisu influenced pretty much all protoss players who are playing right now directly.
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines618 Posts
May 08 2009 12:38 GMT
#79
On May 08 2009 19:57 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2009 19:53 StalkerSC wrote:
Bisu...He pioneered his own build


[image loading]


Okay, can we just reorganize the Teamliquid.net front page to only have pictures that explain why Bisu didn't invent anything?

I love the guy and he's a fantastic player, but hooolllyyy shhiiit, this "Bisu Build" stuff has got to end.



wow your right, this poll has made me realize it should be called nal_ra build, or dreamer build...his build was taken from him and renamed, like a work of art completely plagerized and taken credit for from a man who dreamed big dreams.
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines618 Posts
May 08 2009 12:38 GMT
#80
why do i get the feeling if boxer was in here he'd be in the lead LOL
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
PiGosaur Cup #66
CranKy Ducklings106
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft399
RuFF_SC2 180
NeuroSwarm 154
PattyMac 12
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6881
NaDa 31
scan(afreeca) 28
Noble 21
Dota 2
monkeys_forever463
League of Legends
JimRising 693
Counter-Strike
taco 801
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0493
Other Games
summit1g10142
Artosis539
PiGStarcraft201
ViBE116
Maynarde86
ZombieGrub22
CosmosSc2 8
Moletrap2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1242
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 73
• EnkiAlexander 59
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift3783
• Lourlo407
• Stunt212
Other Games
• Scarra1113
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h
OSC
21h
RSL Revival
1d 7h
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-31
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.