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Poll: Do you agree?
(Vote): Yes
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Power Rank 09/15/2008 - Page 15
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Wolverine
138 Posts
Poll: Do you agree? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On October 12 2008 18:19 OneOther wrote: That's ridiculous. This is a monthly Power Rankings, not "speculate who is favored over who." The power ranking would look absolutely fucked up if we took all those "favorites" into account. Are you actually saying that forGG should be placed at #1 above Jaedong and Stork because he manhandled Jaedong? Because I would speculate that he IS, after all, a favorite against Jaedong. Performance, please. EDIT: Good post, disciple. actually...ForGG was #1 in the PR just because he beat JD, if he would`ve lost , he wouldn`t be #1. ...but I`m not sayin` that...If u read my other posts i`ve just said that the statistics aren`t good for determining who`s better ; and neither the fact that stork is in both OSL and MSL and JD is only in the MSL. Like I`ve said before, this is september's PR. In september Bisu was in MSL and in OSL Ro8. And he shouldn`t be above JD. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Let's begin with a comparison between JD and Stork. In general: Stork: He's in both OSL and MSL, he's on a winning streak against T, he's a strong PvP player, and a mediocre PvZ. JD: He did not qualify to the OSL, he's in the MSL. He is the very best ZvZ and ZvP around, and a strong but not unshakeable ZvT. Watching them play. 1. Mirror Jd: confident play, very rarely he loses his concentration (like against fake yellow) and drops a single game, but he is the clear favorite against any Z. Stork: well he's not the best PvP but certainly one of the best. he has 2 losses this month. One against Kal. Well if you watched the game against Kal, you could see stork sending his shuttle with 2 reavers directly to 20 goons, after that losing 2 more healty reavers to 2 reavershots, while he had a shuttle. And one against Bisu. Well it wasnt up to him to not lose the 3th game. Bisu was on a clear lead, but he thrown it away, sending shuttle filled with reavers to the goons (like stork against Kal). So a bit shaky, but really strong PvP. All in all, JD's mirror is better. JD>Stork 2. vs T JD: he dropped a game to frozean and won 3 other ZvT. Well did you all watch frozean vs JD? It wasn't really his fault, frozean played an excelent game, he bunker rushed, so he gained an early lead and kept it by excelent micro, and attacked exactly in the right second, before the defilers were functional. Stork: he's on a streak, that's for sure. it could be said that he had luck (Sea scouted for proxy and missed barely, luck scarabs after that, Fantasy puling out an awful cheese etc), but let's not be bad, he's damn good in this MU, maybe better than JD's. Stork>JD 3. ZvP, PvZ JD: not much to say, he slaughtered every toss in the past, everywhere (stork, best, free, much etc) nobody stood a chanse against him for a long time. Stork: this is his weakness, defineatly. however he isnt doing bad, his reaver corsair play is quite admirable sometimes, he can beat good players like Luxury, but also can lose to upcoming players like type-b, and he's clearly underdog against JD and most probably against July too. JD>>Stork That's how i see the things right now, let's look in the future a bit. Stork: OSL semifinals against Best, really tough one, if he can bring his A game he may even take it in a close seiries, but if he plays like he did against Kal, or even against Bisu he gonna be 3-0ed, Best does not tolerate mistakes. MSL, another tough opponent Forgg, and this time he gonna be prepared, the former MSL champion is no push-over by any means, Stork may have the upper hand, but he may also lose it. WCG well it's gonna be next month, right? There he will face JD once again for sure) JD: MSL, well free, he's a decent player, but not a big threat, it's JD's siries to loose. WCG, yeah, i already mantioned. All in all JD is better right now, he was better untill now, and most probably he will be the player with more achievments. p.s.: Sorry for writing so much, sorry if i had too many mistakes, english is my 3th language | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On October 12 2008 21:13 Geo.Rion wrote: + Show Spoiler + There was a lot of fight going on, everybody is arguing about who is the better player. I will tell my opinion based on WHATCHING this players play and stats, not only siting down to a bounch of statistics and produce some conclusions, what apparently many people do. Let's begin with a comparison between JD and Stork. In general: Stork: He's in both OSL and MSL, he's on a winning streak against T, he's a strong PvP player, and a mediocre PvZ. JD: He did not qualify to the OSL, he's in the MSL. He is the very best ZvZ and ZvP around, and a strong but not unshakeable ZvT. Watching them play. 1. Mirror Jd: confident play, very rarely he loses his concentration (like against fake yellow) and drops a single game, but he is the clear favorite against any Z. Stork: well he's not the best PvP but certainly one of the best. he has 2 losses this month. One against Kal. Well if you watched the game against Kal, you could see stork sending his shuttle with 2 reavers directly to 20 goons, after that losing 2 more healty reavers to 2 reavershots, while he had a shuttle. And one against Bisu. Well it wasnt up to him to not lose the 3th game. Bisu was on a clear lead, but he thrown it away, sending shuttle filled with reavers to the goons (like stork against Kal). So a bit shaky, but really strong PvP. All in all, JD's mirror is better. JD>Stork 2. vs T JD: he dropped a game to frozean and won 3 other ZvT. Well did you all watch frozean vs JD? It wasn't really his fault, frozean played an excelent game, he bunker rushed, so he gained an early lead and kept it by excelent micro, and attacked exactly in the right second, before the defilers were functional. Stork: he's on a streak, that's for sure. it could be said that he had luck (Sea scouted for proxy and missed barely, luck scarabs after that, Fantasy puling out an awful cheese etc), but let's not be bad, he's damn good in this MU, maybe better than JD's. Stork>JD 3. ZvP, PvZ JD: not much to say, he slaughtered every toss in the past, everywhere (stork, best, free, much etc) nobody stood a chanse against him for a long time. Stork: this is his weakness, defineatly. however he isnt doing bad, his reaver corsair play is quite admirable sometimes, he can beat good players like Luxury, but also can lose to upcoming players like type-b, and he's clearly underdog against JD and most probably against July too. JD>>Stork That's how i see the things right now, let's look in the future a bit. Stork: OSL semifinals against Best, really tough one, if he can bring his A game he may even take it in a close seiries, but if he plays like he did against Kal, or even against Bisu he gonna be 3-0ed, Best does not tolerate mistakes. MSL, another tough opponent Forgg, and this time he gonna be prepared, the former MSL champion is no push-over by any means, Stork may have the upper hand, but he may also lose it. WCG well it's gonna be next month, right? There he will face JD once again for sure) JD: MSL, well free, he's a decent player, but not a big threat, it's JD's siries to loose. WCG, yeah, i already mantioned. All in all JD is better right now, he was better untill now, and most probably he will be the player with more achievments. p.s.: Sorry for writing so much, sorry if i had too many mistakes, english is my 3th language Nice first post. Broke down the differences really well. In my (completely biased) opinion, Stork should never be #1 powerrank until he wins a title. He is just born to be #2. edit: also GGplay definitely needs a spot. | ||
disciple
9069 Posts
1.Stork - he is playing almost flawless for some time now and even if he got a bit luck against Bisu in their OSL encounter, there was no player who could match his performance in the last weeks. 2. JD - playing under 10 games for 2 months and losing like 3-4 of them isnt enough even for champion from his caliber. Yes he played not so many games, but if he won them all his #1 would be out of question. His ability of winning BoX matches should be solid and if he manages to progress far in the tournaments he is into, he will retake his top place, but for now a couple of ZvT losses and a ZvZ game dropped is a bit to much to be forgiven. His win against BeSt was impressive but its not enough 3. BeSt - he is beating his opponents pretty badly in OSL and his first PL games were impressive as well. The OSL title is just whats missing for him. The game against JD was pain to watch, but as long as the oovtoss doesnt have to play against the top zerg he will be fine. 4. FBH - the master of ceremonies made huge effort to step up his TvP and actually achieved results that, no one predicted. He took down two protoss powerhouses. But even more impressive he took a win against the player below him in my PR right the day after. 5. Flash - the Ultimate Weapon must get himself 2gather. GGplay was a beatable opponent, but Flash played bad, made mistakes and lost. He has a shot to save his season in GOM and if he manage to back this up with a descent PL performance he will be back on the top of the hill. 6. ForGG - just like JD, the current MSL champ wasnt been too much busy lately, all we can say is that he got beaten in Blizzcon but took a win against the shaky TvT specialist Canata. Until MSL and GOM progress and we get a clear picture I have no reason to put him somewhere else in the PR 7. Bisu - Welcome back Mr. Anderson. Thou he lost against Stork, he was that close to reach his 3rd OSL semifinal. In the last two games against his arch-rival and in the day after vs much and backho, Bisu showed the results of his PvP preparation. If he takes his next opponents as serious as he took Stork he might improve further and bring back his game to S class level which brought him 2 MSL titles...will see. 8. fantasy- the possible royal roader is coming close the achieving the dream of every SC player- to win the most prestigious tournament in the scene, and to do it from his first shot. However his team is expecting far more from him in the PL, if he wants to establish himself as SKT's new ace he must start rolling his opponents in the PL. 9. GGplay- this guy is gaining momentum and showed all that he is in the OSL semi for a reason. Some months ago his games were pain to watch especially his ZvZ but now he must get some credit for making it to the semis of OSL. 10. plexa - thanks a lot for the awesome articles and coverage from blizzcon. you are a beast man ! thumbs up ! | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 13 2008 02:04 disciple wrote: well my PR is 1.Stork - he is playing almost flawless for some time now and even if he got a bit luck against Bisu in their OSL encounter, there was no player who could match his performance in the last weeks. 2. JD - playing under 10 games for 2 months and losing like 3-4 of them isnt enough even for champion from his caliber. Yes he played not so many games, but if he won them all his #1 would be out of question. His ability of winning BoX matches should be solid and if he manages to progress far in the tournaments he is into, he will retake his top place, but for now a couple of ZvT losses and a ZvZ game dropped is a bit to much to be forgiven. His win against BeSt was impressive but its not enough 3. BeSt - he is beating his opponents pretty badly in OSL and his first PL games were impressive as well. The OSL title is just whats missing for him. The game against JD was pain to watch, but as long as the oovtoss doesnt have to play against the top zerg he will be fine. 4. FBH - the master of ceremonies made huge effort to step up his TvP and actually achieved results that, no one predicted. He took down two protoss powerhouses. But even more impressive he took a win against the player below him in my PR right the day after. 5. Flash - the Ultimate Weapon must get himself 2gather. GGplay was a beatable opponent, but Flash played bad, made mistakes and lost. He has a shot to save his season in GOM and if he manage to back this up with a descent PL performance he will be back on the top of the hill. 6. ForGG - just like JD, the current MSL champ wasnt been too much busy lately, all we can say is that he got beaten in Blizzcon but took a win against the shaky TvT specialist Canata. Until MSL and GOM progress and we get a clear picture I have no reason to put him somewhere else in the PR 7. Bisu - Welcome back Mr. Anderson. Thou he lost against Stork, he was that close to reach his 3rd OSL semifinal. In the last two games against his arch-rival and in the day after vs much and backho, Bisu showed the results of his PvP preparation. If he takes his next opponents as serious as he took Stork he might improve further and bring back his game to S class level which brought him 2 MSL titles...will see. 8. fantasy- the possible royal roader is coming close the achieving the dream of every SC player- to win the most prestigious tournament in the scene, and to do it from his first shot. However his team is expecting far more from him in the PL, if he wants to establish himself as SKT's new ace he must start rolling his opponents in the PL. 9. GGplay- this guy is gaining momentum and showed all that he is in the OSL semi for a reason. Some months ago his games were pain to watch especially his ZvZ but now he must get some credit for making it to the semis of OSL. 10. plexa - thanks a lot for the awesome articles and coverage from blizzcon. you are a beast man ! thumbs up ! About JD and Stork i just wrote. FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking. Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
= 100% based on speculation and bias. | ||
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disciple
9069 Posts
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o3.power91
Bahrain5288 Posts
1.  Jaedong2.  Stork3. BeSt4.  fOrGG5. firebathero6. fantasy7. Bisu8. Flash9. Yarnc10. GGPlayEdit: Put Yarnc in #7  Edit2: Rearranged bottom 4 | ||
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disciple
9069 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 13 2008 02:32 OneOther wrote: Geo.Rion = 100% based on speculation and bias. You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias. I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats. I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 13 2008 02:34 disciple wrote: as you said flash is out from MSL and OSL, can you put him in top 3 for not being in both star leagues ? actually I dont get your point... you think that flash must be out of PR or his place is above #5? and as forGG he has a biiig hill to climb with stork against him in the next round of MSL and I doubt he would take down FBH as well. It doesnt matter how much FBH practiced his TvP. For a player with pathetic record in this MU he made a miracle by taking down those two tosses and that is quite notable Quite notable, yes, putting instantly on 4th place maybe is a bit too much, don t you think? About flash, i can put him even in the top3, if he starts to kick asses in PL and if he does very well in the GOM, he has the potential to do that, despite dropping from the starleauges. But right now, he got kicked out from both leauges, that means 4 consecutive losses, and this fact screws his reputation pretty badly(not talking about losing to tester). he plays like crap, to be honest, even though he clearly has the potential to own. About the Forgg vs Stork, well, let's see what happens, let's see, I woudnt hury to call out the victor just yet | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
And about Jd losing to Frozean, Frozean is underrated IMO,and he also beat Stork. Not in a match,which counts,but it was televised,and he won. He also knocked out Luxury from MSL,the other best Zerg player,even now IMO despite being knocked out of both leagues. Z v Z is a luckfest,and Jd made mistakes too,that happens to anybody. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
I am all for considering ForGG an elite player, because this only adds weight to Savior's 2-0 beat down of him in the Blizzcon tourney. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On October 13 2008 02:57 Geo.Rion wrote: You know, talking about bias, i really tried my best to be as objective as I can, to underline Stork's and JD's assets and weaknesses so did several people over here, you just ignore all of us and say speculation, bias, Stork is better, he's in both leauges, no matter he would lose to JD in boX he's the nr.1 right now. Since english isn't my first language i may misunderstand the word bias, to me it means talking about stg from a single point of view, ignoring all the others, being narrow-minded, having a one sided opinion. I read my post once again, read several of yours and i really feel that it's not me who posts based on bias. I dont know if you even read my post or just answered, or if you are watching this games we are talking about, or you just go to stats. I recommend once again the game against Kal or the siries against Bisuor even against backho, than whatch some of Best's PvP, after that come back and say Stork gonna beat Best. Actually I have been providing valid arguments, and I think your post was full of shit. About JD and Stork i just wrote. FBH as 4th for beating 2 tosses, who most probably practiced pvp whole week? You must be joking. Flash as 5th? He's out of both leagues 2 mediocre zergs kicked him out, dropped a game in the PL to tester (from estro), so what did he achieve recently? Rolled over Bul t, rock, sangho (B-C category tosses) and all-in proxy raxed against Bisu, and lost all the matches that counted. Yeah, Forgg played just a few games but at least he won them in a convincing style, why put him behind Flash and FBH, he would beat both of them right now. You are taking credit away from FireBatHero after he just took down Bisu and Much in his worst matchup TvP. Your reason is that those guys "practiced PvP the whole week." Hundred percent speculation. This does not qualify as a legitimate reason to belittle what FBH was able to do. Yeah, Flash dropped a game to Tester in ProLeague but who doesn't ever drop a game to inferior players in PL? Shit happens dude. This, again, should not be a reason to drop Flash below the 5th ranking. Mediocre Zergs, hmm. You consider Yellow[arnc] and GGplay mediocre? They are definitely one of the best Zergs out there these days along with Jaedong and Luxury. They have the potential to beat any players on a good day. Look how fucking biased you are, finding everything bad about Flash's games. Give me any player, and I can do the same thing. "This guy sucks. He beat player A, who's mediocre at best, with some cheese and won against player B because he sucks dick." What about Flash's games against July? vs Much? I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings. | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
Yes,ForGG played few games this month,but he won All of them,against top quality opponents.(Blizzcon is not taken into account) He beat 3 Top Terrans. Yeah,shit happens,but it happens too often to Flash these days,and imo,it can't be called bad luck anymore,it's lack of skill. Nothing takes away,that Flash 3-0d the group of death in the osl,but his recent plays lacks of the dominance he once held. And somebody please give the credit to the reigning Msl champion that he deserves. | ||
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disciple
9069 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 13 2008 03:29 OneOther wrote: Actually I have been providing valid arguments, and I think your post was full of shit. You are taking credit away from FireBatHero after he just took down Bisu and Much in his worst matchup TvP. Your reason is that those guys "practiced PvP the whole week." Hundred percent speculation. This does not qualify as a legitimate reason to belittle what FBH was able to do. Yeah, Flash dropped a game to Tester in ProLeague but who doesn't ever drop a game to inferior players in PL? Shit happens dude. This, again, should not be a reason to drop Flash below the 5th ranking. Mediocre Zergs, hmm. You consider Yellow[arnc] and GGplay mediocre? They are definitely one of the best Zergs out there these days along with Jaedong and Luxury. They have the potential to beat any players on a good day. Look how fucking biased you are, finding everything bad about Flash's games. Give me any player, and I can do the same thing. "This guy sucks. He beat player A, who's mediocre at best, with some cheese and won against player B because he sucks dick." What about Flash's games against July? vs Much? I don't see how you can possibly put forGG ahead of Flash. Your only backup for that is..."forGG would beat him right now." This is called speculation, and should not be a determining factor in the power rankings. stop using fuck and shit, it dosent make you look cool. I try to write in a tolerant way even though i just registered, as a staff member you should try it too, it doesnt hurts. I apologize calling yarnc and GGplay mediocre zergs, lets say they arent top zergs, GGplay had a comfortable walk into the ro8 (ligh, rock), and here came Flash, GGplay was considered an underdog, and yet he won. As for yarnc his zvt is good his zvz is good his zvp is bad. It may not be a shame to lose to them, even for flash, or to drop a game against a less known player in PL, but doing this in a short period of time, that's really is a problem. You're right i forgot about the match against Much, the match against july was mor than a month ago, and you pointed out that PR should be about "MONTHLY" performence. So this way Flash is 6-5 in the past 30 days, losing the games that counted the most, do you think he deserves 5th place? Or u "speculate" that he's still very good despite of the facts. About Forgg you skipped the argumentative parts. I wrote, even though he had few games he won them in a convincing style, against decent opponents. Well he would beat Flash, yes, this is a speculation, or a bet based on experience, he beat him 3-1, his TvT was awesome after that, Flash, well he wasnt doing too well lately, so everything points in the direction Forgg would come ahead. That's not for sure, yeah, it could be called speculation, but I still gave you normal argument, that you just skipped, and answered to me with this post filled with thrash-words. | ||
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