EPT
Is there a balance problem with Brood Lord + Infestor? - P…
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FlowerBunny
Sweden187 Posts
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Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
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Sakkreth
Lithuania1096 Posts
On November 09 2012 06:46 TranceNinjax wrote: If they nerfed infestors too much. Zerg will lose. There'is a reason why it's in the game. If there was a massive design flaw, it would have been fixed already.. Maybe just take off the energy thing. that's the only nerf it needs. While we're at it, why dont we buff ultras too? There is more than one massive design flaw and it's not fixed. "Support" unit infestor is never a bad choice and is good against everything and can be massed. Collosi makes pvp dumb when u get into collosi phase, imagine pvp without collosi. Sentries, u have to make them to stay alive. Supposed to be defensive unit, used in strongest 2 base all-ins. Etc. Etc. | ||
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Madars
Latvia166 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:19 Archile wrote: MVP.finale's use of voidrays to deal with broodlords and infestors Which game it was? Was it in games vs Lee, Jae-Dong? I have seen players try to use voidrays vs BL+Infestor combination, but so far Voidrays instantly melt to fungals+infested terrans. Perhaps one needs 3 times as many voidrays as zerg has infestors? I like the idea to make infestor take 3 supply | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
A nerf to infestors would probably also require a redesign and re balance of zerg across the board. All the other nerfs that terran got, to ghosts, BFH, tanks etc, well it was never as far reaching and bad because terran has such a solid lineup of viable units, and if you nerf one it doesn't the entirety of the race. However, I feel that, for the sake of SC2, for the better of the game, I believe that Blizzard needs to go for the hard way out, and just nerf infestors and rebuild the zerg race. Also, how the infestors are nerfed is very important. Ghosts, HT and Ravens have one thing in common, they have diminishing returns, no one makes too many of them, because after a certain number they become less useful. Infested Terrans don't have any diminishing returns, as long as the spell remains the way it is now, it will never be a bad idea to get too many infestors. The other problem is that, fungal doesn't really have diminishing returns either. It is damage over time, but it keeps units in place so you can fungal them again. | ||
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Sapp
Poland173 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:53 pookums wrote: I think one of the main problems is that yes, Infestor BL may be countered. But the level of skill required to pull off Infestor BL seems to be far lower than what is required to counter it from protoss and especially from terran. There might be something within the current confines of the game from the other races that is roughly the same amount of skill and power as late game zerg but it remains hidden as of yet. ya, but look at the midgame. How many timeings terran or protoss can preform? countless. Zerg? not so much. how hard it is to play terran or protoss midgame? compared to zerg, not THAT hard at all. It's easy to say "nerf the shit out of something" but ask yourself how the game would look like without bl/inf. | ||
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Sapp
Poland173 Posts
On November 09 2012 07:23 Destructicon wrote: The critical problem with Infestors is that, Zerg's are entirely reliant on them now, it feels like the entirety of the race is build from the ground up with infestors in mind. and that is because ANYTHING else, doesn't work | ||
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Conny Duck
Austria90 Posts
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QuietFrank
United States6 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:16 CaptainPlatypus wrote: I wouldn't say that there's a balance problem, I'd say that there's a design problem. A fix is necessary, but it isn't going to be as "simple" as tweaking the balance of the game. I think most people miss this distinction, and the wording of the poll doesn't go a long way toward helping this. Zerg late game is badly designed, but zerg isn't particularly unbalanced. So I voted no. | ||
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mhael
United States102 Posts
I play SC2 when I can fit it in my busy schedule; but I never miss GSL. I want good games in GSL and I am tired of the zergs just ROLLING over everyone. Toss needs a air splash unit like a corsair from BW. Zerg needs the cost of BL to go up and the spell energy cost on infestor spells to go up. Chain fungal and infested terran with a 200/200 army = about a 260/200 army + broodlings from the BL. Too many units to block someone from getting under BL and shooting the real units - not the free ones. FIX THIS!!!! | ||
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TerrabeaSt
Germany1 Post
that is ok so i think that | ||
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snively
United States1159 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:16 CaptainPlatypus wrote: I wouldn't say that there's a balance problem, I'd say that there's a design problem. A fix is necessary, but it isn't going to be as "simple" as tweaking the balance of the game. yeah, thats a really good way to put it. i voted for waiting for hots | ||
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Interstellar
Mexico67 Posts
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Repomies
Finland73 Posts
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Saigon2246
Hungary23 Posts
There'is a reason why it's in the game. If there was a massive design flaw, it would have been fixed already.. People, it's not just Inf-BL, the real problem is the GAME-DESIGN, you should have realized that by now. If someone hasn't noticed yet, the entire game is a MASSIVE DESIGN FLAW, not just Infestor-Brood Lord. I. Clump up/death ball effect which leads to -AoE insanely powerful and 200/200 battles taking less than a minute which leads to -the slightest mistakes to be punished very hard, very few epic comebacks which leads to -boring gameplay for viewers II. Spells that deny movement and micro (force field, fungal and vortex) which leads to -spells are gamedeciding thus the game needs to balanced around spells -even maps are forced to be designed around ffield to allow protoss taking a third III.Hard counter design which leads to -whole game balanced around key units/spells that prevent an other unit being op (marine-colossus/infestor) which leads to -very strong units, which need very strong counter-units, that will render the countered units almost useless which leads to -game very unforgiving thus annoying to play against certain compositions because the skill required to pull of a strategy and to defend against that certain strategy is vastly different (BL-Infestor, PvT templar-colossus deathball lategame, then after battle instant remax on chargelots) which leads to -no real midgame which leads to -games turning into snoozefests as people rather just sit on their bases until they reach 200/200 armies because doing anything else is just suboptimal. Now I ask you, do you really think that these issues are fixed. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
The broodlord itself isnt the problem IMO. Just the infestor. | ||
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forsakeNXE
Germany539 Posts
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Nothing-
United States5 Posts
On November 09 2012 07:24 Sapp wrote: ya, but look at the midgame. How many timeings terran or protoss can preform? countless. Zerg? not so much. how hard it is to play terran or protoss midgame? compared to zerg, not THAT hard at all. It's easy to say "nerf the shit out of something" but ask yourself how the game would look like without bl/inf. Really? Are you stuck in pre queen patch land? What countless mid game timings are you talking about? Lately the only midgame timing you see in TvZ is BF hellion. Otherwise, it's harass, go full-on macro and try to do something before BLs. In fact, it seems that zerg has the upper hand when it comes to midgame timings nowadays (just look at how Life and Leenock have been winning so many of their games). | ||
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
On November 09 2012 05:42 DMZ wrote: I voted the same, as I feel lots of people seem to forget that there are ways of dealing with infestor BL. and terran- viking splits, seeker missile, ghost emp, harass. Infestor BL can definitely be beaten if the right counters are executed well. TvZ is still good since Vikings can deal with Brood/corruptor unless they turtle way too hard on too few bases. PvZ is the problem here, though I do wish Terrans would use Ravens more. They have the spare gas normally anyway, why not get a raven and save the scan energy? Anyway, I've always held that Phoenix need to suck less. An air superiority unit shouldn't need an upgrade to win a 1 on 1 with a mutalisk. Or, Crank's been doing a lot of Zealot/warp prism/carrier play that works really well. Why not do more of that? | ||
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