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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On February 01 2011 02:44 StylishVODs wrote: but flash had clean pants this month, thats gotta count for something But (to carry the analogy way too far) that's because he had no pants this month. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On February 01 2011 02:58 Musoeun wrote: But (to carry the analogy way too far) that's because he had no pants this month. but what he had underneath those pants were pretty scary:/ | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
 anyway im excited about reading the new PR. It feels as if the whole scene has become more interesting now that so many players are stepping up their play. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13090 Posts
On February 01 2011 02:27 NovaTheFeared wrote: If your ranking puts a lot of emphasis on individual leagues it's easy to see why Stork is bumped down for a lot of people: he crapped his pants in MSL/OSL this past week. To me going into finals/semis ( Stork ) and losing is much better than losing in the first rounds of starleagues ( Flash and Bisu ). Anyone got a problem with that? How is Bisu better than Stork then. They got basicly similar records in PL AND Stork beating Bisu 3 times. There is a reason why Kal won Protoss of the year award even with "mediocre" results for many ppl standards here. Individual results DO matter more than PL. Gonna Say 60% for 0SL+MSL and 40% for PL | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Basically, the situation is quite complex at the moment. No matter what you prioritize you will run into problems when trying to do a PR right now. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:07 Holgerius wrote: Ya, that is a very valid point. But it does complicate things, should someone who just got bashed hardcore 0-3 two times in a couple of days be at #1 or #2 on the PR? I think not.. =/ Um, it's really, really stupid to penalize someone for making it FURTHER into a league and then losing than someone who doesn't go anywhere in the league at all. STORK MADE AN OSL FINAL. That is automatically better than anyone who didn't make it to the RO8 and arguably better than those who did and put up a good fight against high-level competition. While quality of games certainly matters, Stork had the opportunity to put up more high or low quality games because he beat the tar out of so many people to advance as far as he did. Consider that bisu effectively went winless in every round of both leagues after he was eliminated. Stork kept winning against progressively harder competition and only lost against the eventual winner or an on-fire ZerO in his leagues. He has a hell of a lot more high-level wins to show because of this, and while you certainly have to look at his rating compared to the people that eventually beat him (as well as the manner he went out) putting him above someone who hasn't even made it deep into a league in a very, very long time is really knee-jerk and altogether misguided. Stork may not be #1 material, but he is technically the most successful overall player right now across all formats despite not winning a gold this season. Putting him lower than 2 or 3 would be pretty silly, considering he actually IMPROVED HIS RECORD and went deep into both leagues after the previous PR was written. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13090 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:07 Holgerius wrote: Ya, that is a very valid point. But it does complicate things, should someone who just got bashed hardcore 0-3 two times in a couple of days be at #1 or #2 on the PR? I think not.. =/ Basically, the situation is quite complex at the moment. No matter what you prioritize you will run into problems when trying to do a PR right now. Thats why I said 3rd place is more reasonable unlike some ppl puting him 6th or even worse. | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:15 SkelA wrote: Thats why I said at 3rd place is more reasonable unlike some ppl puting him 6th or even worse. Yeah. You could make an argument for 3rd (and no worse), I would have to agree. Bisu should by no means be above Fantasy, Stork, or Jaedong, and Flash is probably going to be underranked no matter where he appears because he still is the best and I don't think anyone really believes otherwise at this point. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Actually, that's a brilliant idea. :D This PR-thread has the second most replies ever I think (haven't double-checked), and that would guarantee that the next one has a ton as well. ^__^ | ||
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Musou
1375 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:13 tedster wrote: Um, it's really, really stupid to penalize someone for making it FURTHER into a league and then losing than someone who doesn't go anywhere in the league at all. STORK MADE AN OSL FINAL. That is automatically better than anyone who didn't make it to the RO8 and arguably better than those who did and put up a good fight against high-level competition. While quality of games certainly matters, Stork had the opportunity to put up more high or low quality games because he beat the tar out of so many people to advance as far as he did. Consider that bisu effectively went winless in every round of both leagues after he was eliminated. Stork kept winning against progressively harder competition and only lost against the eventual winner or an on-fire ZerO in his leagues. He has a hell of a lot more high-level wins to show because of this, and while you certainly have to look at his rating compared to the people that eventually beat him (as well as the manner he went out) putting him above someone who hasn't even made it deep into a league in a very, very long time is really knee-jerk and altogether misguided. Stork may not be #1 material, but he is technically the most successful overall player right now across all formats despite not winning a gold this season. Putting him lower than 2 or 3 would be pretty silly, considering he actually IMPROVED HIS RECORD and went deep into both leagues after the previous PR was written. You're assuming that it was progressively harder competition, when it really wasn't. If you look at Stork's OSL run, he really didn't have any difficult competition until meeting Fantasy at the finals. Modesty is a complete joke outside of ZvZ and the only reason he beat Kal is because it was a teamkill. Sea is a great TvPer but lost in the first round of group stages, so he only had to deal with Shine and Mind for tiebreakers, and Hiya tends to transform from Gyarados to Magikarp randomly, sometimes even in between games. Putting it another way, if you weigh individual leagues that highly, would you put Modesty in the top 10? I doubt it. Yet he made the RO4 in OSL. Sometimes flukes do happen and people who don't deserve to be in the top get to an OSL or MSL finals. That doesn't make them better than the people who were eliminated before them. If Stork had taken a game off either Fantasy or Zero, or at least put up a fight, then I would take that into consideration and place him higher, but losing 3-0 twice and being toyed with by both players just made him look bad. Granted I was probably biased by having seen the epic ZvP series of Jaedong vs Snow right before the Zero vs Stork series, but Stork looked like he completely choked and had no idea what to do. I won't even talk about how bad the OSL finals made him look. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Imo: 1. Flash: Our beloved Bonjwa is invulnerable again and destroys his opponents left and right. He had extremely hard competition in WL and plowed through them despite them knowing they'll play Flash on that map while he didnt even know which race he will play against on that map. 2. Stork: Yes, he lost in OSL and MSL but that was only possible because he got there in the first place. His WL performance was extremely good, but not quite as good as that of Flash. That combined with the losses in the Single Leagues makes it impossible for me to put him ahead of Flash. 3. Bisu: No Single League success but also a great WL record. 4. Fantasy: Saying Fantasy deserves #1 seems quite ridiculous to me. He comes off an abysmal december, and he played not as well as the others in WL. He only has the OSL victory going for him and that isn't enough to put him at #1. 5. Jaedong: He also had a great month, but not as good and dominating as the others. Actually his month was better than Fantasy's so I wouldn't mind putting him on #4 and Fantasy on #5. 6. Hydra: Good month, too, but Hydra is clearly the one who among the top 6 who has yet to prove himself. I updated my stats for the top 6 with last night: + Show Spoiler + Flash Record: 12-1 vs. almost exclusively extremely good opponent's (Fantasy, Leta/Skyhigh TvT, Bisu, Snow TvP, Soulkey, Zero, Sea, Light, getting his revenge against Ssak). Additionally, due to the nature of playing against KT-Flash in WL, these opponents very likely came prepared to snipe him while he had no idea what matchup to prepare for. Plus: - Best winrate this month - he is the Bonjwa and, let's be honest, very likely the best Starcraft player in the world. Minus: - did not play in a Single League because of being out already, only played 10 games Stork Record: 16-8 vs. mostly very good opponent's (Fantasy, Bisu, Zero, Hydra, OSL/MSL rounds) (Edit: obviously 16-8 sry) Plus: - Heaviest schedule of all players. Reaching OSL finals and MSL Ro8. - being #1 PR atm - the victories vs. Bisu and Fantasy in WL after the OSL finals showed that he isn't slumping Minus: - the OSL finals and the MSL Ro8 were still extremely devastating, going 0-3 twice is not the best application for #1 in PR Bisu Record: 15-4 vs. one half good opponents (Calm, Kal, Flash, Baby, Shine, 3x Stork) and the other half below average players (M18M, Iris, GGaemo, FBH, Pure, hero) Plus: - His play is exciting, with tons of aggression and high APM. He was second last PR. Minus: - 0-3 vs. Stork, 0-1 vs Flash, his direct competitors, out of MSL Fantasy Record: 13-7 vs. mostly very good opponents (an awesome playing and very prepared Calm, 4x Stork, Sea, Soulkey, Zero, Flash) Plus: - winning an OSL title, that should be worth something Minus: - coming from an abysmal december back into PR - worst winrate of all 4 Jaedong: Record: 12-4 vs. below average opponents. But like with Flash, these opponent's came prepared to snipe vs. Oz's Oz. Plus: - still in MSL - beating Snow, who played insanely well Minus: - didn't play a lot of good opponent's so it is not sure if he is back to old dominance Hydra: Record: 13- 5 vs. mostly below average opponents. Plus: - still in MSL, dominating Calm Minus: - didn't have very good opponents to prove himself which is what he needs to do as a new player, not his fault but still a minus - lost vs. Stork, the only top opponent | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Stork did lose only because he got that far in the first place, but since when was PR all about results. Please look at those games and tell me he's worthy of #1-2 PR. If it was just a few games it would be alright but 6 in a row is meh. The way he lost does matter when placing him on the PR. Had he lost in a close fight I'd rank him much higher because he did achieve alot this month. Stork does choke when put to the ultimate test. Starcraft isn't all about micro/macro and he showed that he cannot be called the best at the moment. Flash Jaedong/Bisu Stork Fantasy Hydra ... Placing bisu ahead of stork complicates things though. and Flash is probably going to be underranked no matter where he appears because he still is the best and I don't think anyone really believes otherwise at this point. This. Those few fluke losses last month really played with alot of peoples heads. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
I have a hard time believing that he still wasn't the best last month but he sure didn't show it as much. | ||
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Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
Stats on a loosing streak, and his play not so top-notch as before. I think there are better players for top 10 (Bogus, Sea, Zero, Baby or Violet) | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On February 01 2011 04:22 Holgerius wrote: I personally kind of agree with that, but do you realize how much the Bisu fans would rage if you put Bisu at #5, as you suggested? Actually, that's a brilliant idea. :D This PR-thread has the second most replies ever I think (haven't double-checked), and that would guarantee that the next one has a ton as well. ^__^ I already asked Flamewheel to put zero at number 1 to see if we could hit 2,000 but he didn't want to  | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On February 01 2011 06:31 Yodo wrote: 2 mnesthes Stats on a loosing streak, and his play not so top-notch as before. I think there are better players for top 10 (Bogus, Sea, Zero, Baby or Violet) bottom 3: bogus and zero are the viable ones there imo. oh maybe sea actually (W free snow bbyong sun soo best action stats, L zero movie stork fantasy flash. at least a few good players on the W list, and mostly good players on the L list.) stats: only good wins are... hydra, maybe ggaemo and best. lost to all the other good players he played (fantasy, snow, bogus, sea, and flying is on fire randomly) baby lost to all the good players (read: non-ACE, non-cuteangel) he played. zero is inconsistent-ish, but epic wins over flash + stork should cement his place there. plus he stopped totally failing WL. (W 2-1 soulkey 3-0 stork. sea fantasy flash in WL. L: cuteangel?? jaedong bisu action snow. blah) bogus: W hydra movie snow hydra action stats. L... BISU JAEDONG FLASH lol wowowow. should be #8 or #9. and violet has two 3-kills as opener vs jaedong oz and stx. maybe you could throw him a bone :/ | ||
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