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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 25 2010 05:46 L0thar wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/274_Shinhan_09-10_Proleague TvZ: 124-110 (53%) ZvP: 124-102 (54.9%) PvT: 106-83 (56.1%) Yeah sure... Hmmm how are the numbers with individual leagues as well? That's really surprising tbh | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
However if you play 124-110 as in the TvZ in this example, it's not really that much of an imbalance to talk about. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On July 25 2010 10:29 Elroi wrote: Like 2-3 months ago it was 53 - 53 - 51 I think, though I can't find the thread... That was when terran was really strong in proleague - they didn't have a weak mu. Maybe it had something to do with Flash playing at 90% winaratio for a time:O | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
And wow, I didnt know there so many protoss with such good win rates vs zerg! (Movie at #3 makes me so happy and he faced JD a lot too  ) | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Even that would dissipate over a high enough number of games though. | ||
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Tempora
United States78 Posts
he spelled imminent as immanent. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
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serenidite
Korea (South)505 Posts
:D i think that deserves a raise in PR | ||
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pvzvt
Israel2097 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On July 25 2010 10:33 StylishVODs wrote: Maybe it had something to do with Flash playing at 90% winaratio for a time:O Flash, Light, Sea, Mind, Baby, Midas etc. they were all on fire. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
I don't think that's a smart idea. Because that's the advantage Terran as a race has: all their games, against all races, usually take quite some time. The deciding factors may be early in the game, but Terran is able to hold themselves pretty good until late game if they play it fairly safe (which is the norm these days), and maybe even make a comeback with a bit of luck. The other two races often don't have that luxury. Especially Zerg totally lacks that luxury - one mistake early on and you definitely lose early due to a timing attack or simply by being overwhelmed, with no chance to take it into late-game. And there's the ZvZ matchup which is usually finished in under 12 minutes or so. TvT, TvZ and TvP are *all* drawn-out macro games by their nature. So the ability of a Terran to often take an early-game disadvantage and "delay" it so the loss occurs in late-game, is always given thanks to the defensive advantages of the race. That's why it also rarely looks like a Terran is "completely dominated" when he loses. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
As for individual leagues I would be very careful looking only at stats, because there are too few games played. They are also much more inflated when somebody like Flash or JD come and demolish everyone. What's quite interesting though is looking at the semifinalist from last two OSLs&MSLs: Zerg - Shine, Calm, Calm, Effort, Kwanro, Jaedong, Jaedong Protoss - Movie, Kal, Kal, Pure, Free Terran - Flash, Flash, Flash, Flash As you may see, for zerg and protoss there is quite a number of different players. But for terran, there is only Flash. Flash is the one and only terran who was able to compete with zerg and protoss players in individual leagues for the past year or so. Terran players in general are doing absolutely horrible  (except for winners league, where at least Light was tearing it up as well).The links: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
I mean those 3*14cc where outrageous. HEHE! Also Bisu still has nightmares with Flash cheese him out of the MSL back in 2007. | ||
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luckybeni2
Germany1065 Posts
On July 26 2010 01:20 L0thar wrote: Well, I can't help but think that many people on TL believe that terran players are doing better than they are in reality. I've already posted the stats from PL, which certainly doesn't show any terran dominance, quite the contrary. As for individual leagues I would be very careful looking only at stats, because there are too few games played. They are also much more inflated when somebody like Flash or JD come and demolish everyone. What's quite interesting though is looking at the semifinalist from last two OSLs&MSLs: Zerg - Shine, Calm, Calm, Effort, Kwanro, Jaedong, Jaedong Protoss - Movie, Kal, Kal, Pure, Free Terran - Flash, Flash, Flash, Flash As you may see, for zerg and protoss there is quite a number of different players. But for terran, there is only Flash. Flash is the one and only terran who was able to compete with zerg and protoss players in individual leagues for the past year or so. Terran players in general are doing absolutely horrible (except for winners league, where at least Light was tearing it up as well).The links: + Show Spoiler + Don't forget about the Season before that where we had like 7 zergs in the semis and Iris. Those were the worst days Broodwar every had. The problem is in my opinion that with the mechanical level of todays zergs Hive tech can make for too easy wins. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On July 26 2010 02:27 luckybeni2 wrote: Don't forget about the Season before that where we had like 7 zergs in the semis and Iris. Those were the worst days Broodwar every had. The problem is in my opinion that with the mechanical level of todays zergs Hive tech can make for too easy wins. I remember that blasphemous double ZvZ finals *shudder*. Also it was four different zerg players, so it wasn't even player imba (like in case with Flash), but really zerg imba for that moment. And even before that, it was only Fantasy from all terran players who could get into semis/final of individual leagues for some time, while we witnessed things like all protoss semis in MSL. This makes Flash achivements this year even more impressive... | ||
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Paddington
Australia254 Posts
Ideally, vs Terran, you'd want a shuttle or two, filled with reavers (and zealots/dt for mine bombing), an arb or two for stasis, multiple temps for storms, and the bulk of the units being goons/zeal in a 3:2 ratio (estimation). Bisu's army composition vs Midas was Arch/Zeal/Arb, almost to the exclusion of Goon/temp, which are crucial to deal damage and break the terran push. Let's hope that it was just a lapse of judgement over a game or two, and not indicative of a weakness, that may stop Bisu from making a deep SL run. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
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