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On September 03 2009 00:48 AzureEye wrote:
I'm sorry but I cannot see Fantasy as a charismatic player. Yes, I dislike Fantasy alot, but even without my bias, he is a very awkward person imo.
Charisma is this unspoken beauty you find in a person. It makes you admire them for who they are, and they always seem to be confident, and good at everything. I think Charisma really lacks in a scene like progaming where kids are forced to play computer games all day, missing out on all the social interaction + life lessons they could be learning outside of games.
But if I did have to call a few SC players as charismatic, I can only think of Boxer, Savior, Reach. Not even Jaedong or Bisu who seems to be at the top nowadays seem charismatic. Jaedong is getting there slowly but still seems to be growing up. Bisu has his looks advantage but he is awkward too imo.
Fantasy is like a puppet of Oov. Even if that was not the case, that is the kind of image that he is sending when he has to consult with Oov after every little game in a BO series, or when Oov makes his builds. Even the way he talks is very awkward and he says the weirdest things sometimes (watch the interview right when he loses from OSL finals against JD)
I'd add one to your list: YellOw. Sure he came in second a bunch, but he's not called the Storm Zerg for nothing.
Among modern players, Jaedong and Bisu are the only really successful ones I'd consider close to charismatic. Flash and Jangbi are too quiet; fantasy, Stork, BeSt, and Calm all seem to have the nerdy image going on. EffOrt has the CJ face, but not the Maestro's presence. There are a couple others who come close when they're playing well: S-class Hwasin (which we haven't seen in forever) comes to mind, and Luxury will sometimes achieve that level of total dominance in a game.
If I had to pick one charismatic player in the modern age, it would be sKyHigh. When I step back and consider, I don't really like him, but when he plays I find myself rooting for him every time. However, he doesn't really have the level of results yet - not even Reach-level - to enter into the discussion seriously.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 01 2009 06:21 Hinanawi wrote:I like this month's rank, far more accurate than last month's.  fantasy at #2 looks weird at first, but if you think about it, that's really only because we tend to prioritize games at the END of August (where he wasn't looking so hot) over games at the BEGINNING of August (where he was on fire). I probably would've put him at #3 and  Calm at #2, but no big deal. The rest of it looks good. I'm really disappointed in EffOrt, he looked completely helpless against Flash, getting thoroughly and overwhelmingly smacked down by both bio (Game 1) and mech (Game 2). Hopefully he picks up his play for the sake of CJ's ace needs.
Spoiler!
In all seriousness, glad that Flash and Stork are back.
Fantasy delivering twice vs Jaedong probably explains his position, although putting Bisu above him would make a tad more sense. Imho I would put Stork above kwanro but given the PvZ that Stork got in the OSL and PL ace he probably deserves his rank for the inconsistency =p
edit: i like how Stork uses his ~220 apm and make protoss look so imba at that S-class progamer level, especially when he decides to take the game seriously (which fans hope to see instead of the several times he throws the game to random mistakes)
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On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc).
On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too.
You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following.
Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow)
Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here
I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level.
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stork needs to stop playing WoW. seriously.
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On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level.
It's only difficult because Protoss players get all the girls.
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On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level.
That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
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On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
Even if bisu got his OSL, no one but the rabid Bisu fans would dare to call him anything like a bonjwa.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
Real problem is that aside from Bisu/Stork, the Protoss race lacks any consistency whatsoever. Many players have real major flaws in their game. And you forget EVER, where Best got absolutely smashed by July. And Batoo was also a TvZ with JD/Fantasy, as well as GOM Season 1 (JD/Flash).
Protoss doesn't seem to have problems getting to the finals. But aside from Bisu, they all have issues winning in the finals. Kal/Best/Jangbi/Stork all failed miserably in the finals, aside from Stork's lone OSL win over Fantasy.
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On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:
That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
It's pretty much settled, the time of the bonjwas is over. Bisu is not "one title away from being a bonjwa", especially when Jaedong is doing so much better than everyone else. Protoss had a decent period of dominance before this season came along with its zerg-favored maps. But right now, any pro can beat any pro, as we saw many times in the proleague post season. It's all a matter of the mental game and who can handle the pressure the best. If you can't play on tv like you can in practice, it comes out to nothing in the end.
On September 03 2009 01:39 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 00:48 AzureEye wrote:
I'm sorry but I cannot see Fantasy as a charismatic player. Yes, I dislike Fantasy alot, but even without my bias, he is a very awkward person imo.
Charisma is this unspoken beauty you find in a person. It makes you admire them for who they are, and they always seem to be confident, and good at everything. I think Charisma really lacks in a scene like progaming where kids are forced to play computer games all day, missing out on all the social interaction + life lessons they could be learning outside of games.
But if I did have to call a few SC players as charismatic, I can only think of Boxer, Savior, Reach. Not even Jaedong or Bisu who seems to be at the top nowadays seem charismatic. Jaedong is getting there slowly but still seems to be growing up. Bisu has his looks advantage but he is awkward too imo.
Fantasy is like a puppet of Oov. Even if that was not the case, that is the kind of image that he is sending when he has to consult with Oov after every little game in a BO series, or when Oov makes his builds. Even the way he talks is very awkward and he says the weirdest things sometimes (watch the interview right when he loses from OSL finals against JD) I'd add one to your list: YellOw. Sure he came in second a bunch, but he's not called the Storm Zerg for nothing. Among modern players, Jaedong and Bisu are the only really successful ones I'd consider close to charismatic. Flash and Jangbi are too quiet; fantasy, Stork, BeSt, and Calm all seem to have the nerdy image going on. EffOrt has the CJ face, but not the Maestro's presence. There are a couple others who come close when they're playing well: S-class Hwasin (which we haven't seen in forever) comes to mind, and Luxury will sometimes achieve that level of total dominance in a game. If I had to pick one charismatic player in the modern age, it would be sKyHigh. When I step back and consider, I don't really like him, but when he plays I find myself rooting for him every time. However, he doesn't really have the level of results yet - not even Reach-level - to enter into the discussion seriously.
Kwanro is the worst. I hate when he wins because he's just so boring. He gives short and unoriginal answers. But Flash is still very young, I'm sure he will grow out of it.
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[QUOTE]On September 03 2009 01:18 geod wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 02 2009 09:41 iamho wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 01 2009 00:10 riptide wrote:
sure fantasy is a top player, but he did got stomped in every individual league this month. 1 nice game and 1 successful cheese in PL should not make him no.2[/QUOTE]
Jeadong is also a top player but he did got stomped in every league this month except the OSL of course. Guess what? He is still the undisputed number 1 in PR.
[/QUOTE]
he lost out of gom last month; he had one loss in the ro4 to calm and one title win. he didn't get "stomped" like fantasy
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I wonder what will be in the PR of next month. In September it seems there are no serious games played!
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On September 03 2009 17:25 arbiter_md wrote:
I wonder what will be in the PR of next month. In September it seems there are no serious games played!
There'll probably be absolutely no change. Complete offseasons are odd like that.
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On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
even if bisu wins two osls, he won`t be a bonjwa.
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On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years.
Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that...
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On September 03 2009 18:39 Dice84 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years. Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that...
also, 3OSL > 3MSL. ok anything else ?
nothing interesting this month 
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On September 03 2009 20:47 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 18:39 Dice84 wrote:On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years. Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that... also, 3OSL > 3MSL. ok anything else ? nothing interesting this month
The largest gap in between Kespa #1 and #2 in the history of Starcraft?
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On September 03 2009 21:15 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 20:47 Jaeden wrote:On September 03 2009 18:39 Dice84 wrote:On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years. Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that... also, 3OSL > 3MSL. ok anything else ? nothing interesting this month The largest gap in between Kespa #1 and #2 in the history of Starcraft?
most likely
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On September 03 2009 14:11 iamho wrote:
he lost out of gom last month; he had one loss in the ro4 to calm and one title win. he didn't get "stomped" like fantasy
I see you decided to omit his most glaring loss of this year...which was delivered by no less than Fantasy.
On September 03 2009 10:46 ghostWriter wrote:
It's pretty much settled, the time of the bonjwas is over. Bisu is not "one title away from being a bonjwa", especially when Jaedong is doing so much better than everyone else. Protoss had a decent period of dominance before this season came along with its zerg-favored maps. But right now, any pro can beat any pro, as we saw many times in the proleague post season. It's all a matter of the mental game and who can handle the pressure the best. If you can't play on tv like you can in practice, it comes out to nothing in the end.
Bonjwas lose games too, you know -_-
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United States936 Posts
On September 03 2009 21:31 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 21:15 Shikyo wrote:On September 03 2009 20:47 Jaeden wrote:On September 03 2009 18:39 Dice84 wrote:On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years. Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that... also, 3OSL > 3MSL. ok anything else ? nothing interesting this month The largest gap in between Kespa #1 and #2 in the history of Starcraft? most likely
Yeah, it is. (both percentage wise, ~55%, and point wise). I believe the second highest lead first place ever had over second place was Nada sometime in 2002 (41%). Before this month, Nada held the top three differences over second place. I believe Jaedong's lead over third place is the fourth largest percentage-wise in the history of KESPA.
Despite that I love the way in which this Power Rank was written this month, Riptide, I feel that Fantasy should be third and Calm should be second, weighing the WCG and OSL losses a little bit more than the Proleague wins. I can't really argue too vehemently on this point, however, because you were very consistent on not weighing WCG in too much.
I've read your rebuttal to those with similar opinions and it's a matter of weighing the games he played at the beginning of the month with those he played at the end. Every single PR writer before had weighed the most recent games above those which were more distant, if only because they were clearer in his mind, but you, surprisingly, didn't do that which makes me like this Power Rank for the MONTH more. When other players have a very strong week at the end of the week and an abysmal performance at the beginning of the month, one that outweighs the later wins, (or vice versa) I'll except the same treatment with them in coming Power Ranks. ^^
Good job!
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On September 03 2009 21:31 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 21:15 Shikyo wrote:On September 03 2009 20:47 Jaeden wrote:On September 03 2009 18:39 Dice84 wrote:On September 03 2009 05:26 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 03 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On September 03 2009 00:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. I think until just this season, Protoss had more major titles than Zerg. Honestly, in the Terran days, Protoss is lackluster on dominant periods, but overall is quite solid. They've just never had a single player who was better than everyone else for a while, though if you combine Taek-Bang you get what amounts to a protoss bonjwa out of 2 players (3 msls, lots of side tournaments, 1 OSL, good WCG showings, strong in PL, etc). On September 03 2009 01:34 luckybeni2 wrote:On September 02 2009 21:09 baubo wrote:On September 02 2009 11:07 Hinanawi wrote:
It really goes to show what a balanced game Brood War is with what a nice spread we get of top players' races, and how we sometimes get 'swings' in the metagame favoring one race or another (which always eventually swing a different way). You must have a short memory. Because SC history is full of terran dominance. With sprinkles of zerg dominance here and there. The 6 dragons era lasted for all of 3 month. And if that counts as protoss dominance, it's quite sad for the race in general. It is by far the weakest race in progaming history. Take bisu and stork and combine what they managed to do in the last couple of years. Stork may be short on golds but he was the second place for a very long time. Every silver he got meant he lost in the finals. They may never had a streak of compleat dominace for long but they always had players who were title material. The Protoss era did not last long but what do you expect? One race on all good spots for a year would be pretty boring and the mapmakers helped end that era too. You guys do realize that you're basically comparing a race that has to combine its two best players to make a single bonjwa, to the following. Zerg: 2 golden mouse winners(Jaedong, Julyzerg) 1 Bonjwa with same number of titles as Stork/Bisu combo(Savior), and the king of silvers(Yellow) Terran: Nada, Boxer, Oov... I don't even have to mention Flash here I know the joke is always 1a2a3a protoss ez race, but I don't see how anyone can disagree that it's the most difficult race to succeed on a pro level. That is not true. Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa and stork is on top for far longer than almost every other player. In the end all that counts is that you dont have a more dominant race over the others. this season is the first for quite a long time without a protoss in the finals. Bisu jangbi stork and kal were the finalists of every (only jaedong-forgg excluded) major league in the last 2 .5 years. Your reason is flawed dude. So, if according to your "Bisu is one title away from being a bonjwa" theory is true, then I guess that would make Jaedong bonjwa since he has one more title than Bisu? I think most people would disagree on that... also, 3OSL > 3MSL. ok anything else ? nothing interesting this month The largest gap in between Kespa #1 and #2 in the history of Starcraft? most likely
Meh, kespa rank is really bad way to represent player skill. Of all the reasons you could have picked you chose the worst one :p.
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EPT
