We've used the "International tournament X is an extension of GSL" joke too freely in the past, not knowing that one day it would become a reality. With twenty odd GSL class players at both MLG Providence and Winter Championship, it looked like that was the closest we'd ever get to seeing an unofficial American GSL event. Nope, with forty GSL players competing at IPL4, and the GSTL finals to boot, this tournament actually should be renamed IEM GSL Global Challenge Las Vegas.
Under these special circumstances, the POWER RANK PREVIEW returns after a tasty debut at MLG Winter Championship. Last time we ranked the top forty players, but this time we've cut it down to twenty. Why? We figured most people aren't interested in reading about ranks 40 through 21 when they're are all Code A Koreans they've never heard of. Yes, they're going to beat all of your foreigner favorites anyway, and we'll not give you an overly lengthy prelude to heartbreak.
The Criteria
First off, this rank applies only to players competing at IPL4 (160 words in, I wonder how many people will miss it this time). What did we learn from the last Power Rank? That Grubby reads our news *Swoon* and that so does HuK *Booo*. However, we haven't let that change anything, so here's a slightly revised copy paste from MLG Winter Championship:
"Who would beat whom in a best of 101 series with their lives on the line?" That crossed our minds. So did "Who had the best tournament results in the past X months?" Those, and many other questions factored in as we attempted to figure out an inherently arbitrary and contentious thing: "who's better?" It was a complex process, which we're not even sure we completely understand ourselves. By reaching a compromise between more than one opinion, we've ensured that no one was pleased with the end result. A few notes:
The Power Rank does not suggest that a higher ranked player is better than a lower ranked player in a head to head. Rankings are an overall package. For example, there are many Terran players ranked beneath Oz who we think could beat him in a 1v1, but we think Oz is just better on the whole.
Also, the PR is not a ranking of everyone's chances to win the tournament, though we will mention that purely as a point of interest for some players. There's a lot of bracket luck involved, as well as a considerable advantage given to players who start in the group stage. Again, the Power Rank is just our all-around answer to the question "who's better?"
The Power Rank
Honorable mentions have been cancelled, because you can only make so many Destiny and iNcontrol jokes in a month.
A tie? Really? Well, we were filling out our top twenty and these two Prime Terrans were just too difficult to separate. Both are coming to Las Vegas with the words wild card tattooed on their foreheads, and they could go very far if they can translate their current play in Korea to their first international events.
GhostKing, formely known as Byun, has always been one of the best players on the Korean Grandmaster ladder. People forget, but back during GSL July, GhostKing was a lot like how another player in Las Vegas, Alive, is playing currently in the GSL. Not only did GhostKing make the Code S semifinals, but he got there by decimating sC, MVP, Nada, and then made the biggest comeback in GSL history by getting beat up in his first two games against Bomber in the quarterfinals before making a comeback with three straight victories. He would lose to Losira in the semifinals, but GhostKing proved that he was a Terran that could be a regular fixture in Code S.
Then he left ZeNex and joined Prime since everyone leaves ZeNex, got into that scandal with Coca during a Korean Weekly*, and was suspended for months. Finally, after a long break to think about what he did, GhostKing has come back with a vengeance with his new team, being one of the main reasons they're in Las Vegas due to his three-kill against other GSTL finalist Startale.
The third cog in the Prime Terran Trio besides the two Kings is Maru, the fourteen-year-old who has taken the GSL by storm. After having an absolutely horrendous time in GSL months ago when he put on a terrible performance against now LoL coach FruitDealer, Maru didn't let this chance slip by, topping his Up and Down group before one upping himself by getting 1st in his Code S Ro32 group. This is his first foreign tournament, and as a fourteen-year-old, going to Las Vegas for your first big non-Korean offline tournament could be intimidating. But honestly, compared to the two Kings, Maru might actually be the most calm, cool and collected of the three. He might be a kid, but Maru has already shown the skill and patience of a veteran.
*It always seemed like a case of stupidity and carelessness, more than any true maliciousness on CoCa or Byun's part.
Ganzi has been remarkably cold in the GSL after a stint as one of its most consistently good players, but at least he's keeping up the pace in international tournaments, beating players like Mvp, MC, JYP and viOLet. In some ways, Ganzi is starting to look like a mini-Bomber, a player who has the skills to beat anyone in the world, but not consistently. He's a top eight threat in any tournament he enters – whether it's a daily online cup or Code S – but he's had a lot of trouble (and bad luck) stringing together enough good performances in a row to make a championship push.
If this was solely based on online skill, then Taeja has a case for being in the top ten and maybe even top five. But unlike his various online accomplishments and impressive showings lately in the GSL, IPL4 is a whole different beast from anything the young Terran has ever faced. Yes, he went to Assembly and did reasonably well, topping his group before falling to Polt in the round of sixteen, but the task of going through your first Open Bracket on a new team, after doing so amazing in the GSL, is going to put a lot of pressure on Taeja. It wouldn't be a surprise if Taeja was still alive on Championship Sunday, playing for a title, but it also wouldn't be that shocking if he was eliminated in the Open Bracket due to his inexperience in these type of sprint-like tournaments.
It doesn't really matter where we put HuK, because he's just going to steal our laptop at IPL4, login on our accounts, and place himself at #1 through #20. Anyway, can he really even argue with this positioning? Everyone else ahead of him is in Code S, or has better hair.
Like a lot of other players, this is Curious' first big weekend tournament. The thing that separates him from the rest of the offline tournament virgins, simply put, is that he doesn't care. To Curious, he could be playing Starcraft 2 on the moon in a ten billion dollar tournament against aliens, and I think he would still play the same way he always does, with the same, statuesque, emotionless look that he always has when playing. In a tournament and Open Bracket full of Terrans, Curious' ZvT, which has been nothing short of outstanding lately, could be the key for him to make it to the pools on Saturday. While the glitz and glamor of Las Vegas with tons of fans might be able to shake a lot of the players this weekend, but Curious isn't one of them
Inevitably, MLG will release the Winter Championship replays in the middle of IPL4, and thus we won't be able to know how exactly Inori managed to beat Stephano. Regardless of how it happened, it's no shame for Stephano that he was eliminated in that hell known as the open bracket, where players like Polt, Puzzle and Ganzi have bit the dust before. It'll take more than one disappointing tournament to take the luster off how well Stephano has been playing, especially when pro-gamers keep insisting that he's Code S class. Now that he's seeded into pool play, he's instantly been upgraded from a long shot to title contender (though that fact doesn't factor into this ranking).
Here's an anecdote to wrap up how I feel about Stephano: An unnamed pro-gamer suggested to me that some Koreans would rather face Nestea than try to beat Stephano. At first, I laughed. But moments later, shock slowly spread through my body as I realized that it actually might make sense.
The master of 1/1/1, and one of the most feared prize-money hunters in the world was dealt a grave blow at MLG Winter Championship, when the fantastically coiffed Socke scored a massive upset and knocked PuMa out of the tournament. PuMa may have been expected to have trouble against Code S level Koreans, but getting eliminated by a foreign Protoss was a shock indeed.
However, that's hardly cause for alarm for PuMa (though it's certainly reason enough to celebrate for Socke, who rode that win to a four game winning streak, finishing with a cool $1,500 in prize money). No one's invincible, and if you recall, PuMa was upset by IdrA twice in 2011. He still made over $100,001 in winnings that year, and is still one of the best international tournament players out there.
I'll give PuMa a mulligan on MLG Winter Championship. For now, all I need to know is that he out-mindgamed MMA, and came within a hair of beating MC at the IEM World Championship.
During an interview, oGs head coach TheWind told me that over 50% of pro-gaming was a mental game, and not about pure skill. I wish he had also told me that the process of fortifying your mental strength and icing down the blood in your veins is not a straight line process – you take a few steps forward, a few steps back, and hope that you'll become a better player over time.
When HerO won a championship at DreamHack Winter, I thought he had finally reached that place in his head that would let him play to his full potential. Obviously, I was wrong, and he bombed out of HomeStoryCup and IEM Kiev in terribly disappointing fashion.
However, through all the peaks and valleys, he's slowly but surely improved, and he's now at the best point he's ever been in his career. He's still far from perfect – a mistake fraught showing in Code S revealed that much. But he still got through his group in second place in his Code S debut, making enough good decisions against Curious while retaining his composure under relentless pressure that might have cracked him months ago.
The skill has always been there for HerO – it's time to show he's become someone who can really make it pay off.
Seven months ago, Polt's play was a lot like a back alley brawler. While he didn't have the best mechanics or technique in the world, his knack for knowing the correct moves and being unpredictable were able to push him to a Super Tournament championship and various high place finishes in the GSL. Now, Polt is the captain of TSL and has become a professional fighter with the precise mechanics and techniques that he sorely lacked. While we've seen players fall off in the past year due to not adapting their play style, players like Polt and MarineKing have changed up their play and laughed at the critics who thought they would fall off over time.
Polt, in his four international offline tournaments, has a 75% win percentage, but only one title to his name out of those four. The biggest reason that Polt hasn't been able to capture another title outside his big Assembly win is that he's become too predictable. Yes, Polt, a player who once was laughed at for never going over two bases, has now become a player who will try to be on more bases than a Zerg in the late game. The Polt who won the Super Tournament might not have been a player who relied on his macro to win, but his unpredictable style was a big reason why he won.
For example, look at the recent IPL Tournament of Champions which Jjakji won. Polt, after beating Squirtle, faced the HoSeo ace and every game tried to get the early economic advantage by going CC first. This would have been great and all, but Jjakji didn't allow the games go to the late game, doing early pushes and all-ins in all four games and winning three of them to take the series. The same can be said about Polt at the recent MLG Winter Championship where Sheth watched every single Stephano/Polt game the night before, and 2 - 0'd him with a smart counter-build.
Polt should be commended for evolving and going from a one base/two base timing attacker to a player who loves to go for a long macro game, but for him to win this weekend in Las Vegas, he'll need to vary up his play and maybe show a bit of the Polt that won the Super Tournament.
We didn't need to see Oz take a backseat to Choya in a crucial GSTL game where Prime had Maru, GhostKing, and MKP remaining to know that there was something wrong with his PvT. A 5 – 9 record in March already tells you what you need to know. Though we didn't take expected results at IPL4 into consideration for the power rank (since the pool play advantage would skew that immensely), it was interesting to take gander at Oz's bracket. Notable Terrans: Ganzi, Virus, HasHe. Whew, Oz! You dodged a bullet.
Outside that one, rather glaring problem, Oz should probably be able to beat, or at least break even against anyone else. For Zergs, I don't see DRG here, while Nestea's condition is still in question. Stephano is definitely an interesting opponent, but that match-up will probably be fairly even at least. In terms of PvP, Oz has been one of the bestplayers in the world for the last few months, with only Top 1 PvP HuK able to top him (now leave us alone, Chris).
Katy Perry's Hot N Cold is a song that's pretty much written for Bomber. He's hot and he's cold, in and out of GSL, and always toying with my heart about whether I like or dislike him as a player (also he retire-unretired). His latest Up-Down-Up of all-killing NS HoSeo, getting knocked out of Code A, and then clearing the Code A preliminaries like it was nothing, was a performance that bordered on comedy.
As wild a ride as Bomber might be, would you really have him any other way? If you averaged out his highs and lows, and made him a player who consistently performed at a middling level between those poles, then there would be very little that is special about him. If those abyssal lows are the cost for those stratospheric highs, then so be it.
Only once in his career has Bomber been able to stay in top-shape for long enough to bring home a championship, and that was at MLG Raleigh. Though he's marred by inconsistency, there's always a chance that he will bring his best for just long enough, for three days and twenty odd games. Additionally, his ladder-monster nature suggests that he'll be more comfortable in the rapid-fire format of IPL4 than the meticulously prepared-for matches of the GSL. Whatever happens, get ready for a wild ride.
(I'm going to semi-guarantee that if he does well in GSTL or IPL4, he will crash and burn in the other.)
Alive might be, at this moment, the best TvT player in the world. He also might be one of the better TvP'ers in the world. But his TvZ, which used to be one of his stronger match-ups, is now his biggest weakness. In the past two weeks, he got eliminated from Code S by losing to Zenio and July. At MLG Winter, he almost to HeavensLight before getting eliminated in the championship bracket by Violet 2-0. To top it all off, in the ONOG Invitational, he dropped four straight games to Catz and TLO. Alive might have a lot of positives coming into Vegas, but if he doesn't fix his TvZ, he'll be out of the tournament before Sunday.
Bearers of significant Brood War experience, headliners of Incredible Miracle, three time GSL champions, victims of untimely slumps, relinquishers of racial thrones, possessors of exploding wrists. Nestea and Mvp mirror each other more closely each day; they might as well be the Zerg and Terran playing aspects of the same person.
However, they differ importantly in the fact that Nestea has squeezed out results that give his followers reason to believe in a god's imminent resurrection, whereas Mvp quietly allows more nails to be hammered into his coffin.
Nestea was barely eliminated in the RO16 of a Code S where he looked quite good, but more impressively, he managed to win a brutal MLG Winter Arena Korean qualifier, which was filled to the brim with top class GSL players. Though he disappointed in the Winter Arena event itself, he showed that he still retained some of the spark that made him such a special, dominant player in the past.
In Mvp's case, he's fallen to a point where beating him almost isn't an accomplishment anymore. When Gumiho, Sniper, Seal and Ret beat him, we thought "wow, those guys must have really gotten good!" However, with the losses starting to pile up dangerously high, it's starting to seem like the more accurate assessment is "wow, Mvp really got worse." Perhaps it's his wrist injury, or perhaps it's just the jadedness that comes with incredible success – whatever it is, this is not the Mvp of the past. Yet, for a player who was unbelievably dominant for so long, it would be an insult to abandon hope so soon. For now, we still believe he will find a way back.
If the IEM World Championship was MC at his best, then the MLG Winter Championship was MC at his most mediocre. When his calculated risks (both aggressive and greedy) pay off, MC can compete with anyone in the world. When they don't... well then he loses to Ganzi and ThorZaIN, almost loses to CrazymoviNG, and gets mauled by TvP monster MKP in straight up games.
Though he's a far from being the dominant player he was one year ago, and though he can lose rather lopsidedly when things don't go his way, MC is still one of the most unpredictable, dangerous players to face. There are few players – if any – who can play the strategy mind-games as well as MC, and he is definitely an opponent no one wants to meet in the elimination stages of a tournament.
Wait, what? Does this mean we're calling PartinG the best Protoss player in the world?
Uhhh... I guess? Kinda?
This really is an awkward position to be in, as we think he's the best among all the Protoss players, but somehow feel highly uncomfortable actually giving him that official title. In the past, the title of "Best (insert race) player in the world" has been owned by guys like MKP, DRG, Nestea, Mvp, MMA, and MC, guys who just demolished their opponents and won championships.
PartinG just doesn't have that kind of oomph – though no one else has it either. MC is a dangerous maverick but not a dominating force, Genius choked too hard in the GSL finals and GSTL semis for us to forgive him, Oz is like PartinG with an even weaker aura. Protoss might be having its best stretch in a year, but there's still no face to the movement. PartinG at least has one incredibly impressive match-up in his PvT, and he could easily ride that to a championship given good brackets.
Leenock took a small step back after his MLG Providence victory, as a bombardment of the Protoss opponents he had managed to avoid in the USA exposed his relative weakness in that match-up compared to his ZvT and ZvZ. A three day period in late February proved to be his worst, where he was denied direct entry to Code S by IM's Seed, and knocked out of MLG Arena by NaNiwa and Oz.
However, a few weeks later, Leenock emerged looking like a brand new ZvP beast, smashing Ace and InCa to secure Code S, and taking down PvZ expert HerO in an extremely crucial ace match to continue FXO's progress through the GSTL. It looked like he had figured out the ZvP formula that DRG and Stephano had already solved, knowing how to get into a three-base position capable of both solid defense and relentless attack. If his ZvP problems are truly gone for good, then DongRaeGu should watch out. Leenock has never wanted for ZvT and ZvZ ability, and if his ZvP is at the same level, he could very well overtake DRG as the best Zerg in the world.
Yes, Jjakji, dear Power Rank reader. Let me ask you a question. Has a GSL champion ever disappointed at a foreign tournament?
He might have been eliminated from the most recent GSL by having to play his worst match-up three straight times, but that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best players heading to Las Vegas this weekend. While a lot of players got to IPL4 from the GSTL, being on a rich team, or getting an invite for being popular, Jjakji had to battle his way to Vegas. On a team with no real big sponsors, the only way Jjakji was going to get to Las Vegas was winning the IPL Tournament of Champions.
Not only did he win the tournament, but he wiped the floor with the competition. Polt and Creator, his two toughest opponents, he beat by a total score of 9-2 and ended the tournament with an overall record of 15-3. He's a recent GSL champion and not only has one of the best TvZ's in the world (maybe only bested by the two people in front of him on this ranking), but also one of the best TvP's in the world which he showed in the Tournament of Champions when he made Creator, one of the better PvT players in the world, look like a scrub.
If I'm HoSeo, I would be buying ten body guards to be around Jjakji the whole weekend, and putting ten lawyers on retainer back at home. He is already one of the best Terrans in the world, and with a big weekend in Vegas, I wouldn't be surprised if some foreign teams try to roll their luck on the youngest GSL champion of all-time.
Hey, remember me? You know, the True Son of Boxer? The two-time GSL champion? One of the most popular players on the planet, who less than two months ago, was considered the best player in the entire world and the Terran to knock MVP off his throne?
Yes, MarineKing might be on the roll of a lifetime, but MMA still has one hand firmly gripped on the imaginary Undisputed Best Starcraft 2 Player in the World trophy that a lot of people seem to have already given to MKP. It isn't that MMA has gotten bad recently or is even in a slump, but that he just hasn't been playing any games at all. While MKP, Polt, Stephano, etc. have been traveling the world and winning offline tournaments, MMA has been chilling at the SlayerS house.
No, he wasn't able to win the IEM World Championship after going on a huge winning streak, losing to Puma in the semifinals. Nor was he able to go far in last season's GSL (by his standards), losing in the quarterfinals to Alive while playing under the weather, but MMA is still one of the most accomplished players in Starcraft 2 history. For example, he is the only player in the world who can say that he has completed the International Triple Crown in SC2, being able to win a major tournament in North America, Europe and Korea. MC and Polt can complete the Triple Crown this weekend with their first wins in America, and MVP could do it as well if ever decides to compete in a European tournament, but right now, MMA is the only player to complete this feat.
All hail the King. During the MLG Winter Power Rank, we had him second, but with his second straight MLG victory and an impressive follow up performance in the GSL, there is no way MKP cannot be ranked #1 going into this tournament. Last week was truly MKP's best week of his career:
- Won MLG Winter against DongRaeGu - Got 1st in his Code S group by beating July and Zenio - Closed out for his team in the GSTL semi-finals, beating Leenock in the 6th set to bring his whole team to Las Vegas
For a player who was once known for having nervousness and confidence issues, MarineKing has turned that all around and has shown in the past month that he is someone who won't wilt under the pressure. If it was the MarineKing from a year ago who had to face Leenock in the semifinals, there would be a very good chance that he would have failed and crumbled with the entire pressure of his team on his shoulders. Now, as an improved player truly deserving of the title of King, he was able to push the nerves away and grab the victory for the team, beating down Leenock in a one-sided affair.
If he can win IPL4, there will be no doubt that he is the best player in the world.
Writers:Fionn and Waxangel. Graphics: Meko. Editors: Waxangel.
I would probably put Byun further up the list than, well, last place, and Bomber lower due to his Achilles individual league performance, but have to agree MKP on a tear lately
Some of these rankings seem pretty off, and Stephano's results in Iron Squid (online, but still) would make me place him lower. I would place Taeja above Curious easily and both Bomber and Puma I would rank lower.
Still, in such a stacked tournament it is almost impossible for anybody to agree on a ranking.
I think PartinG has been hyped way too fast. I'm pretty sure if he was not a korean he wouldn't be hold in such high regards. As for MVP and Nestea... Well, a bit too well placed to my opinion, but eh, these two are pretty good.
While there are some placements I don't agree with, I can't argue too much about the logic behind it. Will be fun to see HuK playing the final again, though, after another low rank.
I don't agree with a ton of stuff on this list. Stephano should be way higher up, especially above players like Bomber who haven't been so hot recently.
I really hope MVP comes back =( Though i have a feeling he won't. But he was the best for the throne. Besides him, I just hope Nestea and Parting can make a big splash!
I don't agree with where Stephano and Polt are placed, particularly in regards to where MVP and Bomber are. While the first two have been consistently good recently, the last two have been consistently bad.
On April 06 2012 06:17 zefreak wrote: Some of these rankings seem pretty off, and Stephano's results in Iron Squid (online, but still) would make me place him lower. I would place Taeja above Curious easily and both Bomber and Puma I would rank lower.
Still, in such a stacked tournament it is almost impossible for anybody to agree on a ranking.
I heard that Stephano's games in Iron Squid were cast from rather old replays, with Stephano himself claiming that he didn't really think much of those games, so I think any analysis of that tournament in regards to Stephano should be taken with a grain of salt.
Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
I agree with the majority of this post but did you simply forget about Creator? between the description for parting and him not appearing anywhere on the list I'd say so.
Squirtle is also absent though I can sort of understand that. Still, I have high hopes for the new movement of korean tosses.
I was scrolling down cursing you out for forgetting Jjakji only to find you put him quite a bit higher than I would have =p
Really enjoyable read though, so excited for this weekend. One of the few times I feel a foreign event can legitimately shape opinion on who owns the "best player in the world" title.
On April 06 2012 06:28 Ucs wrote: Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
It doesn't really matter where we put HuK, because he's just going to steal our laptop at IPL4, login on our accounts, and place himself at #1 through #20. Anyway, can he really even argue with this positioning? Everyone else ahead of him is in Code S, or has better hair.
Haters gonna hate :p
I would see him a little bit above imo. And i have a good feeling for stephano. We'll see !
I'm sorry, i can't agree with your MVP's placement. He's 1st and he'll ever be. Yeah i'm an unshamed fanboy but c'mon this guy, he has all my love since he stole my heart so long ago and if he's not first, i'll die a little.
I don't really think Parting has had a performance that justifies him being ranked above all the other Protoss. Honestly he's done pretty well at the MLGs, but other than that he lost both the games he played in the teamleague in March and we haven't seen nearly enough of his PvZ to call him the best, all we've seen is him getting spanked by DRG.
I dont know why you are hesitating to call Parting the best P in the world.....He beat DRG in Arena, He is PvT expert beat JJakji, and his PvP is very good..
Dont really agree with a lot of positions here (bomber, stephano..), also dont like the Huk reply. Seems like Huks interview comment really got the writer. The first five is good tho
On April 06 2012 06:28 Ucs wrote: Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
because this is his teamsite
Also why is Byun #20? he should be top 5 at least
As much as I love Byun/GKP, we couldn't call him top 5 right now because he has no results or tournament play in the last while.
On April 06 2012 06:28 Ucs wrote: Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
because this is his teamsite
Also why is Byun #20? he should be top 5 at least
Yeah Byun should be a lot higher... but I suppose he hasn't played enough games yet for them to warrant such a high position, he has only played 6 games since returning ;p still he has gone 5-1 so I think he should at least be top 15..
Please don't stop making these ever, they're fantastic work and a great place to get your bearings as to how high the skill level is before a tournament! :D
MMA at two? No. His TvP is too bad. He lost to Mana on Iron Squid. He could be taken out by any Protoss he will face this weekend. In my opinion one cannot claim to be the best with such a winrate. If MKP does very very well at IPL and GSTL I will call him the best but other than him there is no title contender at this point. I would place Huk higher btw. He has hardly any weak matchup and is maybe the best at PvP.
Parting over MC? I guess the results will mean more than these rankings, but I am not sure how you put Parting on top purely out of his PvT. MC has actually won significant foreigner tournaments recently, and has been putting in a good showing at GSL as well. What has Parting done lately? MC, Puzzle and Genius all outperformed Parting in the last GSL, I would easily put any of those three above Parting as the best Protoss at the moment.
there seriously can only be a handful of reasons for such rankings: 1) you know nothing about Sc2 besides what you hear on the radio- 2) you were extremely high when you watched this and were re-living the glory days of nestea 3) you may or may not be experiencing signs of down syndrome
So many koreans O_O It seems so long ago when only two or three of the top koreans would make the trip out to America to compete. Now every korean and their grandmother is coming. At least we'll get to see top tier games, but I really wish more foreigners would step it up to fight at their level.
I think there's a distinct possiblity that MVP will come roaring back and show some of these upstarts (like Parting) why he was so feared for so long. I just hope that this time around MKP will finally be able to defeat him. Hoping for an epic finals, probably TvT if I was a betting man
Leenock, Alive, Parting, Bomber, Hero, and Puma are all slightly too high imo. Ganzi shouldn't be top 20. Creator deserves a mention, recently getting 2nd at IPL Legends tourney, 6-0ing Hero.
Byun and Maru should both probably be higher based on skill, but don't have the results yet.
That is a nice power rank, though I strongly disagree with no.1. You should also factor in their games, MKP does not look stable, he does really really dangerous stuff and wins. Of course winning is everything but everything has its boundaries and if anyone has proven inconsistency it is MKP. Do not get your hopes to high.
So many things I would argue about this power rank that it is not even worth the effort, some picks look like a monkey pulled out of the hat, or someone forgot that this ewebsite is suposeed to be "neutral" when it comes to teams, and for self publicity there is the Liquid Pro part. Or that is what I understood last time it was talked about xD
On April 06 2012 06:50 Grumbels wrote: MarineKing said that Byun and Creator are better than him, kinda funny. I really like these power rankings though, well done!
Pretty sure he didn't say that . He said something like he was confident in teamleague because there was still Byun/Creator if he lost, and that Byun is the best player in the houze. Would be cocky for him to say that he is the best Prime player lol.
MARINEKING!!! Bring home another championchip! After watching his crushing defeat in GSL Open Season 2 I've loved this guy forever. Please keep wowing me with your incredible micro and marines!!
Don't you have to actually win a GSL to be considered the best player in the world? Otherwise Huk would've been the best player in the world a long time ago.
On April 06 2012 07:04 ItsMeDomLee wrote: Don't you have to actually win a GSL to be considered the best player in the world? Otherwise Huk would've been the best player in the world a long time ago.
On April 06 2012 07:02 1Eris1 wrote: Mma, bomber, Stephano, maybe huk overrated, Maru, byun, underrated. Probably a couple I'm missing too.
Oh well, PR is never going to please everybody. Nice job
Don't think HuK is overrated, I would say hes underrated. He got 3rd in the arena, 4th in the championship then went 3-2 in his group for up-down. He has been playing well lately.
Nice read. I particularly agree with what is said about Parting, I really feel like he IS the best Protoss player in the world, but he can't rightfully take that title until he really has results to back it up.
MKP/Nestea/MVP are the three players I am most interested in for sure though.
On April 06 2012 06:56 NrGmonk wrote: Leenock, Alive, Parting, Bomber, Hero, and Puma are all slightly too high imo. Ganzi shouldn't be top 20. Creator deserves a mention, recently getting 2nd at IPL Legends tourney, 6-0ing Hero.
Byun and Maru should both probably be higher based on skill, but don't have the results yet.
Yeah, Creator should be on the list. He's ranked high on the ladder and just 6:0 Hero, only losing to Jakji in IPL TOC. The finals VS Jakji was pretty close even though he lost 0:3. He was leading in supply in most of the games but fell short to one bad engagements in the end. Jakji had to play really greedy to win as well. But I have to say, Jakji won because he killed a shit load of observers and managed to get an early lead. Nonetheless, Jakji is really solid.
There's three people I'd absolutely love to see win, Jjakji, NesTea and MVP, in that order. I don't think any of them will do it, but it would be soooo cool. If not them, my next preferred, and even more unlikely choice would be Stephano, just because it would be the sickest upset if a foreigner won the most difficult weekend tournament that has ever existed and it seems like very few people really believe he will do well here.
But in the end, it'll be just an incredibly awesome tournament we're all excited to watch.
Wish DRG was coming so we could see another match of him vs MKP, but this should be awesome. Stephano now gets a chance starting in group play, and NesTea + Leenock in the open bracket will make it a must watch.
Huk 17 is a pretty bad rank considering his incredible run of high placements in Foreign tournies. He won Orlando, Got 7th(?) at the championships, Got 3 at winter arena and 4th at Winter champs. He's been consistently landing top 8 in very hard tourneys. The GSL placement is rough, but he's show incredible ability in tournaments with low preparation time.
I think it will(like always) likely be a Korean terran who wins. If Bomber and MVP play their best game they should not lose many games. MKP is in beast mode and MMA is still top 3 in the world. Jjakji, Alive and Polt have played well lately too.
Out of the players in the PR I will be rooting for HuK, MC and Bomber.
MMA is gonna take it all. If Ryung can learn to play TvP, MMA can do it aswell. I think he wasn't just chilling in the SlayerS house. He was practicing. Hard. And waiting. One could say he was luring out there. While MKP, DRG and most of the others were out there, MMA waited patiently in the shadows, waiting for the right time to make his move. Many will think he cannot do it because they didn't see him for a longer time or not often enough. But that's not the reason why he won't take it. It is the reason why he will take it. They will all think that the great MKP will destroy this wannabe emperor of terran, but when they have the feeling of certain victory for their hero, the shark MMA will come and his bite will be powerful. He will knock MKP out and will crush dreams and hopes of MKPs fans, while taking the championship under the frenetic cheer of his fans, who waited with him in the shadows. This IPL will show the SC 2 world whos the real Emperor of Terran!
(This post was sponsored by the "Serinox is biased for certain players Corporation")
On April 06 2012 07:24 Proko wrote: Huk 17 is a pretty bad rank considering his incredible run of high placements in Foreign tournies. He won Orlando, Got 7th(?) at the championships, Got 3 at winter arena and 4th at Winter champs. He's been consistently landing top 8 in very hard tourneys. The GSL placement is rough, but he's show incredible ability in tournaments with low preparation time.
While I think Huk is underrated by the community, I do find his ranking here to be accurate. This tournament is far more stacked than any foreign tournament to date. Its down right ridiculous how hard this tournament it. There is so much talent in Vegas.
I'll say it, this tournament will be more difficult to win that GSL.
On April 06 2012 07:24 Proko wrote: Huk 17 is a pretty bad rank considering his incredible run of high placements in Foreign tournies. He won Orlando, Got 7th(?) at the championships, Got 3 at winter arena and 4th at Winter champs. He's been consistently landing top 8 in very hard tourneys. The GSL placement is rough, but he's show incredible ability in tournaments with low preparation time.
SC2 needs someone to develop a stat for "strength of schedule."
The master of 1/1/1, and one of the most feared prize-money hunters in the world was dealt a grave blow at MLG Winter Championship, when the fantastically coiffed Socke scored a massive upset and knocked PuMa out of the tournament. PuMa may have been expected to have trouble against Code S level Koreans, but getting eliminated by a foreign Protoss was a shock indeed.
However, that's hardly cause for alarm for PuMa (though it's certainly reason enough to celebrate for Socke, who rode that win to a four game winning streak, finishing with a cool $1,500 in prize money). No one's invincible, and if you recall, PuMa was upset by IdrA twice in 2011. He still made over $100,000,000 in winnings that year, and is still one of the best international tournament players out there.
I'll give PuMa a mulligan on MLG Winter Championship. For now, all I need to know is that he out-mindgamed MMA, and came within a hair of beating MC at the IEM World Championship.
Am i reading that wrong or is PuMa really that rich after one year of sc2 wins? o.o
Don't get me wrong, I think Leenock is a good player but, possibly too overrated.. ? And I think huk is underrated again. But nonetheless, good luck to all the players.
On April 06 2012 07:02 1Eris1 wrote: Mma, bomber, Stephano, maybe huk overrated, Maru, byun, underrated. Probably a couple I'm missing too.
Oh well, PR is never going to please everybody. Nice job
Don't think HuK is overrated, I would say hes underrated. He got 3rd in the arena, 4th in the championship then went 3-2 in his group for up-down. He has been playing well lately.
There's way too many good terrans here, and his PvT isn't spectacular. I'm sure he'll do fine, but I would put his odds at winning the whole tournament to be incredibly low. (Which I think is what the pr is about? Not necessarily a ranking of overall skill that is.)
On April 06 2012 07:33 ClairvoyanceSC2 wrote: Don't get me wrong, I think Leenock is a good player but, possibly too overrated.. ? And I think huk is underrated again. But nonetheless, good luck to all the players.
some people thought huk got an easy path in the last MLG's. So its quite mixed.
As an MC fanboy, I think the Power Rank undersells him on account of his play at MLG Columbus, in which he only got to play 1 series of PvZ, and played a lot of PvT series' (look at the winrates for that nowadays - the only Protoss who looks good against Code S Terrans in PvT is Parting, and his series against MKP gave him the most P favoured map there is). He was also barely knocked out in PvP (you know, fuck PvP and all that jazz).
The reason why Parting is being put higher up is because people rarely see Parting's PvZ compared to MC's. It is abysmal for a contender to the Protoss throne. He got stomped by DRG in 2 series, and defeated him in 1 when the Zerg King was also playing pretty poorly.
As for MC? His internation PvZ winrate is so good, winning a Bo5 series 3-1 makes his winrate worse. That's ridiculous. In Korea, MC has only recently played against DRG (a close 3-2 in BlizzCup, in which MC lost after making Carriers on a Protoss favoured map when 2-1 up) and Leenock directly after returning from winning HSC and not sleeping for hours. He still beat him 2-1, and looked fantastic when defending the proxy hatchery cheese. I believe that MC has by far the best PvZ in the world, seeing as Genius has struggled against the likes of BB2 and Curious (no longer good at ZvP) after his miraculous run to the GSL finals.
"It doesn't really matter where we put HuK, because he's just going to steal our laptop at IPL4, login on our accounts, and place himself at #1 through #20. Anyway, can he really even argue with this positioning? Everyone else ahead of him is in Code S, or has better hair."
Loved this! :D
For those of you who didn't view the interview of HuK by trollbid at the last MLG (HuK comments the power rank) :
The biased in this writing is just getting weird. I know many teamliquid staff write and it's a good , if not beautiful place for a writer to start. But the illlegtimacy of the writing. I mean there's just so many spots that have no conclusion to as why they should be there, besides personal hope or bias from the writer. And some that are misplaced , at least are explained why and the reasoning. But the biased is just unexcuasble as a writer and a web site.
I almost love these pieces more than the tournament itself sometimes, such a beautiful work of written art, keep up the quality TL! However with 40 high level korean players, there are bound to be people with differing opinions in terms of ranking, but i think it's relatively fair, the only real complaint would be putting leenock lower or completely replacing him with creator, he has been such an impressive player lately.
If the IEM World Championship was MC at his best, then the MLG Winter Championship was MC at his most mediocre
Or you know the far more likely and more reasonable: The players at MLG were better than the ones at IEM.
It was the same thing with Hero winning Dreamhack. The players at Dreamhack were worse than the ones at places like GSL and MLG where Hero consistently failed until recently.
I like that you dare put Jjakji at #3. He seems really underrated, and could easily win the tourney. His TvT is not the best in the world, but it is not like he is below 50/50 against players like MKP and aLive.
Also, the Parting part (heh) is spot on, he probably is the best toss right now, even though he is not dominating.
MKPs TvT isn't that great (55% win rate), how do you honestly see him going far into the tourney with so many terrans when his TvT is so weak compared to other top terrans there?
I'm calling it right now that he's not going to make it that far at all.
Sad as I am to say it I really don't think MVP belongs in the top 10 anymore until he gets surgery on his wrists, I was checking his match history for builds (don't judge me ><), he lost every single practice game he played against TheStC the other day, 12 in total. TheStC is a fucking legend, but the old MVP would not let that happen
Like putting Jjakji up there, disagree with some others but nice job on the writeup!
On April 06 2012 07:42 Clafou wrote: "It doesn't really matter where we put HuK, because he's just going to steal our laptop at IPL4, login on our accounts, and place himself at #1 through #20. Anyway, can he really even argue with this positioning? Everyone else ahead of him is in Code S, or has better hair."
On April 06 2012 08:00 Vapaach wrote: Puma at 14 = insanity
Puma should lose to pretty much every korean in the tournament, and some foreigners as well. There is no way he should be that high.
Nice power rank besides that though ^^
He placed 3. at assembly and 2. at IEM world championships. He has shown last year he does very well in tournements by placing consistantly high in top spots.
On the note of Jjakji i just hope he does not run into to many terrans with good TvT, his TvT is decent but nowhere near his TvP and TvZ
over half the list is still Terran. Accurate but whatever the lower lvl Terrans say there is s till a problem the other two races have at the super GM level.
I think main problems are:
1) If you are a better player than your opponent you win if Terran. Whilst zergs are most likely to be cheesed or suffer issues with map spawning and both Z and P suffer from mirror coin flippery and early Terran pressure 2Rax or 111 for eg.
2) More micro opportunity for those with insane APM (Think MKP Thor/Marine medivac pick up and drop v DRG in Winter Champs)
Things have improved and HoT will hopefully balance this out more...without making Terran untennable at lower levels ofc. Peronsally I still tihnk Toss is OP at Master level and below hehe but that might just be cos I suck at scouting their proxy pylons
Calm down fellow HuK fan's... the hell guys, HuK has been placed 17th, the exact same place as last power ranking , by the same author... It is a troll. Get over it . He should be around 5 imo. (As he has proved these last events.)
Are these Huk fanboys joking? In what universe does Huk deserve top 10 in a list this stacked? His MLG arena and winter championship finishes were impressive but these are some of the best players in the world.
Everyone else ahead of him is in Code S, or has better hair.
Stephano isn't code S and if you think that someone who looks like sideshow Bob with his hair down is better looking then Huk... well then I just lost all faith in these rankings :[
HuK top 10 for sure ... you underrate him time and time again. How many times he has to show you, that he, Stephano and Nani are the only players who can beat Koreans? HuK can beat everyone up to #5 ;-)
On April 06 2012 06:28 Ucs wrote: Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
because this is his teamsite
Also why is Byun #20? he should be top 5 at least
Sorry, but,
Hero made it out of his Code S group. That is an amazing feat. He should certainly be there.
I think the rankings look good. I would add July somewhere though; he just made it out of his code S group and has been on fire lately. Definitely top15 in this tournament.
Sick good power ranking, one of the best I've seen, the only two I'm not sure about is Hero (but I guess getting to Ro16 Code S is enough) and Curious (I loved Curious, but he continually and consistently disappoints). IPL IS GONNA BE AMAAAAAZZZINNGG.
Here's an anecdote to wrap up how I feel about Stephano: An unnamed pro-gamer suggested to me that some Koreans would rather face Nestea than try to beat Stephano. At first, I laughed. But moments later, shock slowly spread through my body as I realized that it actually might make sense.
So much complaining about Huk's ranking in this thread. I don't even think he deserves to be top 20 tbh. Only players in Code S deserve to be called top 20 when the tournament has more than 20 Code S players.
On April 06 2012 08:00 hersenen wrote: MKPs TvT isn't that great (55% win rate), how do you honestly see him going far into the tourney with so many terrans when his TvT is so weak compared to other top terrans there?
I'm calling it right now that he's not going to make it that far at all.
Also lol @ all the fools who underestimate puma.
His lifetime tvt win rate isn't that impressive. His current tvt skill has gone up a lot. He beat ganzi at mlg, alive in gsl, etc... it has really improved. What's his 2012 tvt win %?
Good rankings the only one i have issue with is Parting, I'm still not on his hype train even though I think he's very good, very few 1v1 tournament results to me means he doesn't get to eclipse MC just yet.
On April 06 2012 08:00 hersenen wrote: MKPs TvT isn't that great (55% win rate), how do you honestly see him going far into the tourney with so many terrans when his TvT is so weak compared to other top terrans there?
I'm calling it right now that he's not going to make it that far at all.
Also lol @ all the fools who underestimate puma.
His lifetime tvt win rate isn't that impressive. His current tvt skill has gone up a lot. He beat ganzi at mlg, alive in gsl, etc... it has really improved. What's his 2012 tvt win %?
I really don't see why people are trying to knock Hero, Nestea, and MKP in this thread. Apparently Nestea is slumping because he hasn't WON a GSL in a while? Hero doesn't deserve to be here because he lost PvPs to Creator? MKP doesn't deserve to be number 1 because he had a low TvT winrate 4 months ago? You people are ridiculous.
considering how stephano made puma look like a random gold leaguer last time they met, which was even very recentlly, seeing puma ahead in this ranking is perhaps not so well thought out
On April 06 2012 09:50 Ancient-Hunter wrote: The top 3 are Terran and Korean.
Neither has won an IPL yet.
The koreans arrived first in IPL 3, IPL 1 was just a bad joke (can't believe IdrA is still getting credit for it with a spot in pool play) and IPL 2 was 10x skillwise but still had no koreans. And the line-up for IPL 3 was much weaker.
On April 06 2012 09:50 Ancient-Hunter wrote: The top 3 are Terran and Korean.
Neither has won an IPL yet.
None of the IPL champions will ever win an IPL again.
Top 8 korean, unless the brackets make it impossible. Plus I'm hoping for MVP to reclaim his throne, preferrably by demolishing MKP at some point. Unlikely, but there's always hope ;p.
looked up and down the list but I can't seem to find July? Surely it can't be that....he's not included?
Oh hell no! Huk was right!
He even got beat by Byun (recently came back) and Bomber (too high up considering his inconsistency and fall to code B) in the rankings.
Meanwhile, July all-kills IM in the ksl, tops his up/down group, and in his code S group he made Alive dead, barely lost to mkp, and apparently got over his zvz hump because he beat Zenio as well (good zvz).
edit: JK, I do think leenock might be a little high, havent seen much of him lately. I like MMA at #2 though, he definitely deserves it. I thought he would be placed lower in this power ranking and I would call him as my upset, but I guess he is just the favorite to win it anyways. MMA takes this
Good effort overall, these Power Ranks are always difficult to do and to please everyone. I think the key point here is that you nailed the most important spots - #1 and #2. Foxer is definitely the favorite for this one, and only a terran can stop him from winning imo.
Probably the main problem I have with this is Byun being #20. I understand that he has not played many games and you probably did not get the chance to see his play too much, but he's become sick good. He looks very close to Foxer style-wise and skill-wise. The only reason he has no recent results in individual leagues is, well... you know.. he was banned from them for a long time His team league performances have been stellar though. I'd put him at least 5 spots ahead.
Huk needs to improve his hair by powering up on stage for 6 episodes before his matches so he can show his true power as a super saiyan. With his current hairstyle and lack of charge time and yelling he simply doesn't stand a chance against players who live together and charge up in Korea all the time.
On April 06 2012 07:38 xlava wrote: I don't think anyone's won $100,000,000 in prize money -_-
great read though
You mean in total in tournament prize money or just from one tournament? Plenty of sc2 players have won more than 100k in sc2 these are the top 10 sc2 player earnings for tournaments: 1SK GamingJang "MC" Min Chul$275,920 2Incredible MiracleJeong "Mvp" Jong Hyeon$257,570 3Incredible MiracleLim "NesTea" Jae Duk$231,620 4SlayerSMun "MMA" Seong-Won$153,630 5PrimeLee "MarineKing" Jung Hoon$144,480 6Evil GeniusesLee "PuMa" Ho Joon$134,350 7MvPPark "DongRaeGu" Soo Ho$133,710 8Team SCV LifeChoi "Polt" Seong Hun$131,170 9MilleniumIlyes "Stephano" Satouri$102,045 10StartaleKim "FruitDealer" Won Gi$101,675
One hundred million was written, not one hundred thousand.
On April 06 2012 06:03 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: #12: TSL_Polt For example, look at the recent IPL Tournament of Champions which Jjakji won. Polt, after beating Squirtle, faced the HoSeo ace and every game tried to get the early economic advantage by going CC first.
no offense, but do you even watch starcraft? Polt went CC first on Daybreak (like every other self-respecting terran). Every other map he went 1 rax FE, including the game he won by holding the all-in.
MC should be ranked higher than parting. Parting is so inconsistent and lately MC has proven to everyone that he is the #1 protoss. The only one i can see beating him in this tournament is mkp and that's because mkp know how to play the early and midgame TvP.
Everything else is either right or close enough that I won't complain. Glad for the MMA bump! I still love that guy and his really unique frenetic style of play!
On April 06 2012 10:54 Jampackedeon wrote: Bomber and jJakji above Stephano, pfhhhhh!!!
Everything else is either right or close enough that I won't complain. Glad for the MMA bump! I still love that guy and his really unique frenetic style of play!
In what universe should Stephano be ranked above Jjakji?
On April 06 2012 06:49 Sitinte wrote: Maru has to be the combo breaker with the Prime trio. Marineking, Ghostking... maybe he should change his name to... Viking?
MMA or MKP to win it.
MarauderKing :D but I agree with the rankings mostly, not so sure about Leenock at #4 and I reckon you could put Stephano and Maru higher on the list. Other than that pretty good.
EDIT: The lack of CreatorPrime is a little disturbing however...
On April 06 2012 11:02 LunaSea wrote: #8 IMmvp & #7 IMnestea are placced higher than Stephano. Seriously ...
Power Ranks are getting worse and worse ...
lol. Stephano loses every time he faces a top Korean and a lot of the time when he faces the mediocre ones. Just because you can beat up on foreigners doesn't mean you are better than Nestea or MVP.
As much as it pains me not to see my favorite swedes in the top 20, I can't really argue. Also, I'm dreading the outcome of IPL 4. This just might be a clean sweep from the Koreans, though I won't let go of all hope just yet.
On April 06 2012 06:28 Ucs wrote: Why is Hero in this list? There are alot of other players that deserve to be in the list and have show some results lately in comparison to Hero. I will give Taeja the benefit of a doubt since he hasen't had the chance to prove himself in foreign events so he I guess its okay to put him in that list, but Hero? lol...and people call on SirScoots and eg twitter when they obvious stuff like this...
because this is his teamsite
Also why is Byun #20? he should be top 5 at least
Can't be because he's been on a monster tear lately? Has to be favoritism on TLs part which is whys theres only 2 members on the list... Im sensing some just straight dislike of HerO here an not actual fact based opinions.
Idk if TL takes feedback. But I have been reading the 'sc2 power ranks' that have been coming out since you all started doing it. It seems to get worse each time though, with the last 2 seeming to be pretty horrible to be honest.. I dont know what changed, but the writing staff no longer seems to look at this in a neutral standpoint.
That with the HuK trolling (idk if HuK is supposed to be there, or higher, since your joking and dont give context), and just straight typos/misinformation (yea, creator isn't better than any of the protoss you have listed). This is a News Article, not reddit.
Please start doing Power Ranks like they should be done. Using Math/Statistics/TLPD/etc. Talking about Nerves for instance is fucking pointless, when you make a power rank you should be assuming every player is playing at max potential and only considering 'who is in top form and has best chance of winning'. If you dont assume this, how can you judge them appropriately?
I expect Byun to really make a breakthrough/comeback performance in the tourney. Also, I think I'd put bomber and alive a bit lower, stephano a bit higher, and creator somewhere on the list (maybe in the mid teens or higher, though I wouldn't be surprised if he takes it all). You can drop ganzi in place of bringing creator into the list. Also, maybe leenock and jjakji a bit lower (<3 leenock and I'd keep him in top 10 but closer to 10).
Byun has builds that are fit for the format of this tournament. His dictionary of all-in builds and ability to play standard at the mid level SHOULD get him quite far into the tournament.
Its players like these that are fit for open bracket style events.
this is bad,huk beat parting and oz, niether of them have won a major lan. leenock has not shown that incredibly much latly. theserankings, idk bou fion, his picks have been far from spot on as of late. bomber and puma above stephano, ugh these rating kinda frustrate me
Ghost King and Maru should be higher imo. It seems really odd right that nestea and mvp are as far down as 7th and 8th but I feel that that is an accurate ranking.
I am absolutely not a fanboy but Huk IS showing some dangerous potential. That said i also think Hero is looking unbelievable in his recent matches.. seriously unbelievable, he's showing such solid protoss. Leenock is also well placed demonstrating some outrageous understanding of zerg mixed with impeccable micro. When MMA's play is ON he beats MKP, we've seen him play games close to perfection, but you can't really argue with MKP's hotstreak and unreal unit control, this will be an amazing tourney! I also really hope to see stephano crush his opponents haha gl hf
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
On April 06 2012 07:38 xlava wrote: I don't think anyone's won $100,000,000 in prize money -_-
great read though
You mean in total in tournament prize money or just from one tournament? Plenty of sc2 players have won more than 100k in sc2 these are the top 10 sc2 player earnings for tournaments: 1SK GamingJang "MC" Min Chul$275,920 2Incredible MiracleJeong "Mvp" Jong Hyeon$257,570 3Incredible MiracleLim "NesTea" Jae Duk$231,620 4SlayerSMun "MMA" Seong-Won$153,630 5PrimeLee "MarineKing" Jung Hoon$144,480 6Evil GeniusesLee "PuMa" Ho Joon$134,350 7MvPPark "DongRaeGu" Soo Ho$133,710 8Team SCV LifeChoi "Polt" Seong Hun$131,170 9MilleniumIlyes "Stephano" Satouri$102,045 10StartaleKim "FruitDealer" Won Gi$101,675
One hundred million was written, not one hundred thousand.
Yeah I just saw that so I edited my post lol haha.
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
It's far easier to say nice things about people when asked about their abilities than to say mean things.
Although this will be an awesome tournament, as always the open bracket means that not everyone starts on equal footing, so I don't necessarily think we'll get all of our questions answered in terms of who is "better".
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
It's far easier to say nice things about people when asked about their abilities than to say mean things.
Even if a dog barks in a church, he will likely get out alive.
I would put Huk ahead of Stephano. IMO Huk is a more complete player. Stephano's style is geared more toward forcing his opponents to multitask by constantly putting up expos. It works well vs foreigners, but Koreans have the mechanics to keep up.
On April 06 2012 12:45 FXOBoSs wrote: Byun has builds that are fit for the format of this tournament. His dictionary of all-in builds and ability to play standard at the mid level SHOULD get him quite far into the tournament.
Its players like these that are fit for open bracket style events.
Absolutely. Amazing ladder players do the best in the open bracket style. Byun excels on the korean ladder so he's able to play against many different styles and win consistently. Players like Byun and Marineking will do great in open bracket style tournaments since they are so strong on the ladder. I fear for Mvp in the open bracket. Not sure if he's going to make it out
actually on second thought... mvp has no challenges until he gets to byun in the second to last round and if he gets creator in the finals of his open bracket section
On April 06 2012 11:18 sc14s wrote: honestly MC doesn't belong ahead of a bunch of the koreans below him on the power ranks.. just my 2 cents.
I hope you're joking because IMO the only player that MC should be behind is MKP.
I'm guessing the un-named proplayer that suggests the koreans will rather play Nestea than Stephano is Naniwa lol. And Jjakji is really ridiculously good, this is his first foreign offline tournament right? But he is a player that wins through extremely smart strategies than his micro or macro, without a long time to prepare for his opponents like GSL he might not do as well. But anyway I look forward to it.
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
Sorry, but Stephano is not Code S level.
It doesn't really matter what Code S players say because they are rarely rude and often overcompliment foreigners, saying that most foreigners are playing on a korean level while the foreign players cannot even qualify or, when they are seeded, win a series. As far as I know, the only Code S level player that Stephano has ever beaten in a live tournament is Polt and marineking (though this wasn't the marineking we know today :D )
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
Sorry, but Stephano is not Code S level.
It doesn't really matter what Code S players say because they are rarely rude and often overcompliment foreigners, saying that most foreigners are playing on a korean level while the foreign players cannot even qualify or, when they are seeded, win a series. As far as I know, the only Code S level player that Stephano has ever beaten in a live tournament is Polt and marineking (though this wasn't the marineking we know today :D )
um what the heck? stepano not code s level? wow this is news to me, he only destroys massive face at every tourney he goes to, him and former code s champ and current code s player polt are the best and most evenly matched rivalry in the game. i am a huge toss fanboy but i admire skill when i see it, stephano is that level, hos emotions are absent from play and he has the mechanics to beat koreans, theonly thing he lacks and this is from himself is mental stamina to conquer things like open brackets, hence he dosn like mlg that much. but to say the he is not code s worthy? your telling me he cant beat seed or zenio. or half the other awsume players there i find you sir are sadly mistaken
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
Sorry, but Stephano is not Code S level.
It doesn't really matter what Code S players say because they are rarely rude and often overcompliment foreigners, saying that most foreigners are playing on a korean level while the foreign players cannot even qualify or, when they are seeded, win a series. As far as I know, the only Code S level player that Stephano has ever beaten in a live tournament is Polt and marineking (though this wasn't the marineking we know today :D )
Mr Chae disagrees with you in his interview And there are more Koreans beside MKP and polt he has beaten.
Ugh I had almost forgotten how annoying Stephano fans and haters are. That's the main reason I hate seeing him in any tournament. I hope he makes a quick exit so talk about him will stop. Sad but true, particularly considering he's pretty good.
On April 06 2012 15:07 mordk wrote: Ugh I had almost forgotten how annoying Stephano fans and haters are. That's the main reason I hate seeing him in any tournament. I hope he makes a quick exit so talk about him will stop. Sad but true, particularly considering he's pretty good.
The quick exit would cause another storm altogether hahaha. Especially if he takes out, then loses to a Code S player.
I'm probably the only person here who doesn't want to make love to MKP but even I can't deny he deserves top spot. I don't agree on Jjakji and Leenock being that high up tho.
I'm hoping for some mvp/nestea resurrection action and also GO STEPHANO!
Jjakji at #3 in the power rank... Love it! Scary player indeed. One thing I love about Artosis when he is casting is how he usually reminds of people of the Jjakji vs Leenock Code S final being the best TvZ seen to date in sc2. The only players should be feeling comfortable playing him are Code S terrans with decent/strong TvT. Will be interesting to see how he plays in this kind of environment though (in a far away land, tournament format and such)
Stephano.. to those people saying he isn't Code S level. He has proven time and time again (that when given the opportunity) he has the ability to to hang with Code S players. Who knows if he'd do well in GSL Code S itself, its the toughest sc2 tournament in the world (by a country mile), would be interesting to see how he would do in that kind of tournament though. Having time to practise matchups, prepare for particular opponents.
He has the skill, just not sure he has the discipline to succeed in a GSL type tournament (I think he's happy playing a few hours a day and travelling to different cities/countries and rhomping at weekend long tournaments)
On April 06 2012 15:07 mordk wrote: Ugh I had almost forgotten how annoying Stephano fans and haters are. That's the main reason I hate seeing him in any tournament. I hope he makes a quick exit so talk about him will stop. Sad but true, particularly considering he's pretty good.
Well I'm glad you are here acting as the voice of ultimate reason and objectivity. Way to lift yourself on a pedestal. Personally, I hope he goes all the way. He is such a good player and perhaps more importantly, seems like an overall good dude. Gives the best interviews also. Haters are jealous hipster nerds. No one needs them. I agree on that.
On April 06 2012 15:25 6BiT wrote: couple of things
Jjakji at #3 in the power rank... Love it! Scary player indeed. One thing I love about Artosis when he is casting is how he usually reminds of people of the Jjakji vs Leenock Code S final being the best TvZ seen to date in sc2. The only players should be feeling comfortable playing him are Code S terrans with decent/strong TvT. Will be interesting to see how he plays in this kind of environment though (in a far away land, tournament format and such)
Stephano.. to those people saying he isn't Code S level. He has proven time and time again (that when given the opportunity) he has the ability to to hang with Code S players. Who knows if he'd do well in GSL Code S itself, its the toughest sc2 tournament in the world (by a country mile), would be interesting to see how he would do in that kind of tournament though. Having time to practise matchups, prepare for particular opponents.
He has the skill, just not sure he has the discipline to succeed in a GSL type tournament (I think he's happy playing a few hours a day and travelling to different cities/countries and rhomping at weekend long tournaments)
No, he isn't code S level until he goes to Korea and proves it. No doubt.
i want to hear what huk has to say about this, will be funny. maybe if he places top 4 at a foreign tournament again he will get a spot above 15 next time... maybe.
i think MC needs to be moved down a few spots and huk needs to be raised a few (if not replaced with MC). his (huks) tournament results at foreign tournaments are unquestionably solid.
On April 06 2012 15:25 6BiT wrote: couple of things
Jjakji at #3 in the power rank... Love it! Scary player indeed. One thing I love about Artosis when he is casting is how he usually reminds of people of the Jjakji vs Leenock Code S final being the best TvZ seen to date in sc2. The only players should be feeling comfortable playing him are Code S terrans with decent/strong TvT. Will be interesting to see how he plays in this kind of environment though (in a far away land, tournament format and such)
Stephano.. to those people saying he isn't Code S level. He has proven time and time again (that when given the opportunity) he has the ability to to hang with Code S players. Who knows if he'd do well in GSL Code S itself, its the toughest sc2 tournament in the world (by a country mile), would be interesting to see how he would do in that kind of tournament though. Having time to practise matchups, prepare for particular opponents.
He has the skill, just not sure he has the discipline to succeed in a GSL type tournament (I think he's happy playing a few hours a day and travelling to different cities/countries and rhomping at weekend long tournaments)
No, he isn't code S level until he goes to Korea and proves it. No doubt.
And he couldn't honestly give less of a shit as he's depositing his tourney winnings in his bank account.
Aside from a few entries (mainly Bomber, but I was never a fan even when he was in his prime), I support these rankings. I do find it amusing in the comments how polarized people seem to be in their opinions on who should be high/low in the list, either on very recent results (July got out of his Code S omg he's definitely top 5) or on what seems to be ancient history (MVP/Nestea so low?!!?! wtf!!?!). The game is still so volatile that both these extremes aren't really good criteria for ranking players. Taking snapshots in terms of the last 2 months or so (as this ranking seems to do) is definitely the way to go about it.
On April 06 2012 13:29 trinxified wrote: Lol at fanboys who think Stephano is higher than Mvp or Nestea.... Stephano won't even qualify for Code S unless it's a direct seed.
Correct me if I'm wrong please. Almost any Code S player right now has more than 50% chance of beating Stephano.
Even Code S players themselves have been saying for more almost a year now that Stephano is playing at Code S level. So excuse me but I'll take their opinion over yours.
Just because players are Code S level doesn't mean they'll be favored against other Code S players.
every ranks power ever made always brings out arguments and disagreements. but oh well, i cant stop myself either lol. Huk is underrated, so is Taeja. PartinG is highly overrated, some ppl aready stated out many exact reasons. Oz is overrated too though I love him lots, Stephano should be higher, Byun,...and where's Creator?
etc and etc and etc
but nonetheless, good post and effort, only if this power rank comes true then it would be surprising and interesting.
I have a personal top 20 and don't need to refer to it offhand to know who's better than who. If you followed the most recent GSL or GSTL you'll know who's good and who's not. If its a Korean, I only really pay attention if they are beating another top Korean. If it's a foreigner I only really pay attention if they are playing top Koreans or playing other top foreigners who are consistently laddering on the Korean server. Everyone else is basically in a giant scrap heap in my opinion. Until you are consistently beating players in the top 20 then and only then do you deserve to be in the top 20.
Nobody has come close to touching the god-mode status that MVP had going. MVP at his best is the best SC2 player we've seen to date. Too bad it looks like he had to push himself too hard and blow his wrists to achieve such perfection.
didn't read the 15 pages, so I'm sorry if it has already been mentioned, but TaeJa did not top his group at assembly, he lost to BlinG which explains why he had to face Polt that early. Really enjoyed the read, thank you!
On April 06 2012 17:07 LeLfe wrote: didn't read the 15 pages, so I'm sorry if it has already been mentioned, but TaeJa did not top his group at assembly, he lost to BlinG which explains why he had to face Polt that early. Really enjoyed the read, thank you!
Other way around, polt lost to bling and had to face taeja early haha
mostly agree...but i don't think leenock would have chance to take out DRG to be the best zerg in the world. DRG is still the best one, and he will come back soon. leenock's zvt is good but not the best, his zvz really sucks as his zvp..but DRG is the best in zvz, zvt and zvp
On April 06 2012 17:07 LeLfe wrote: didn't read the 15 pages, so I'm sorry if it has already been mentioned, but TaeJa did not top his group at assembly, he lost to BlinG which explains why he had to face Polt that early. Really enjoyed the read, thank you!
Other way around, polt lost to bling and had to face taeja early haha
oh yes you're right Oo, worst part is I was there TT thank you sir!
On April 06 2012 16:44 tyrless wrote: Nobody has come close to touching the god-mode status that MVP had going. MVP at his best is the best SC2 player we've seen to date. Too bad it looks like he had to push himself too hard and blow his wrists to achieve such perfection.
Yeah, if MVP never got that wrist problem I don't think anyone could take him down. :D
Love this list. Hope MarineKing meets MVP, in his current form he should easily dispose of him giving him a lot of confidence!
Feel like TvT is the only way MarineKing can fall with this many amazing Terrans but he knows the playstyles of the most dangerous Terrans (Byun, Maru, Bomber, MMA) and should be able to beat them.
I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Looks like MVP in Bracket 3 and Jjakji in Bracket 4 are highly favored to get through, Bracket 1 will have the best games (unpredictable), and Bracket 2 probably either HerO or Curious (HerO slightly favored there).
Jjakji is most certainly not 15 ranks better than Taeja, or 17 ranks better than Maru, or even 9 ranks better than Polt. Especially not in a foreign tournament environment. Those are huge differences that imply not only that Jjakji is an overwhelmingly better player (which in itself is debatable), but that he's that much better even when taking into account that it's his first experience competing abroad in a one weekend tournament format. Which is just wildly unrealistic, actually it's straight up inaccurate.
Ditto for Parting, although he's somewhat more experienced but also somewhat less impressive than Jjakji to compensate.
This just seems so... random. Not bad per se, there's not a thing that one could just point at and call out BS. Well, the HuK thing, OK, but at this point it's more of an inside joke.
Maybe it's a sign of the pro gaming top being more equal and therefore hard to objectively tier. Or maybe the ranking is entirely pulled out of a nydus network. History will decide ;-)
(loved the "not a ranking of everyone's chances to win the tournament" bit though, I have a thing for lampshading, though some meanie heads might still point out when people ranked lower on PR outclass ones put higher in 1v1 ;-) )
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
On April 06 2012 22:17 shades7 wrote: MKP shouldn't be #1. MMA is still 10 times the player he is. I'd have parting top 3 as well. MMA will win easily though.
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
I want to complain about MCs ranking but I can't because it is probably true :,( Hopefully he can go Boss mode and show that he still deserves the title of Toss President
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
If it was PvP coinflip, I'd've expected it to be 3-3 though. But a 6-0 is pretty telling.
Question from SC2 noob. Wasnt there a recent poll that said that Toss was the best race by far atm? And now the best Toss in the world is 5th and when I look at the top ELO there are no Protoss at all. How does that fit?
On April 06 2012 23:47 Fenrax wrote: Question from SC2 noob. Wasnt there a recent poll that said that Toss was the best race by far atm? And now the best Toss in the world is 5th and when I look at the top ELO there are no Protoss at all. How does that fit?
I'd say its reasonably balanced atm, but good Protoss players will lose PvP to worse players, tanking their ELO.
Ranks seem fine, but i got Nestea/MVP not in my top20. They both recently lost to foreigners in demuslim and ret. rest is kinda fine and close to my predictions
keep the work up, cool thing to have! thank you both
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
If it was PvP coinflip, I'd've expected it to be 3-3 though. But a 6-0 is pretty telling.
And I bet you didn't see those games. Creator won because he all inned at the perfectly right times. Had he not done that, he would've lost about every single game. So no, that series is the least telling I've seen in a long time. It did show that Creator's decisionmaking was spot on but HerO made almost no mistakes. Just look at their second series - game one is back and forth, HerO is ahead so Creator all ins bringing all his probes and barely wins. Game two, HerO destroys his expansion so Creator does a warp prism + blink all in, forcefields the ramp and wins. Game three was a double proxy gate which Creator countered perfectly. So LOL, that series can't tell you anything.
On April 06 2012 23:47 Fenrax wrote: Question from SC2 noob. Wasnt there a recent poll that said that Toss was the best race by far atm? And now the best Toss in the world is 5th and when I look at the top ELO there are no Protoss at all. How does that fit?
That's because people like to call imbalances before thinking about ways to counter them.
MKP's TvZ and TvP are absolutely astounding, but i don't think (someone correct me if i am wrong) that he has beat any notable Terran's lately. Terran has always been his week match up, and if he meets a couple of strong TvT players he could be in some serious trouble.
On April 07 2012 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: And I bet you didn't see those games. Creator won because he all inned at the perfectly right times. Had he not done that, he would've lost about every single game. So no, that series is the least telling I've seen in a long time. It did show that Creator's decisionmaking was spot on but HerO made almost no mistakes. Just look at their second series - game one is back and forth, HerO is ahead so Creator all ins bringing all his probes and barely wins. Game two, HerO destroys his expansion so Creator does a warp prism + blink all in, forcefields the ramp and wins. Game three was a double proxy gate which Creator countered perfectly. So LOL, that series can't tell you anything.
LOL. Are you saying PvP is more than just that? You said Creator's decision making is spot on. What does that say about him? Creator's strength is actually late game. I'm not saying Hero is bad, just that Creator should be on the list, considering that he was Prime's Ace for awhile (and probably still is).
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
Lights out for MMA? MKP has matched up pretty well against him historically. That matters, psychologically.
Hero...he always seems vulnerable. Nerves. All ins. Lapse of concentration. Failure to scout correctly. He's not top 5 in my book, because these things should be considered part of a player's skill. It's not just micro + macro.
On April 07 2012 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: And I bet you didn't see those games. Creator won because he all inned at the perfectly right times. Had he not done that, he would've lost about every single game. So no, that series is the least telling I've seen in a long time. It did show that Creator's decisionmaking was spot on but HerO made almost no mistakes. Just look at their second series - game one is back and forth, HerO is ahead so Creator all ins bringing all his probes and barely wins. Game two, HerO destroys his expansion so Creator does a warp prism + blink all in, forcefields the ramp and wins. Game three was a double proxy gate which Creator countered perfectly. So LOL, that series can't tell you anything.
LOL. Are you saying PvP is more than just that? You said Creator's decision making is spot on. What does that say about him? Creator's strength is actually late game. I'm not saying Hero is bad, just that Creator should be on the list, considering that he was Prime's Ace for awhile (and probably still is).
Oh absolutely, don't get me wrong, Creator is a beast. Everyone knows that he's Code S caliber and if HuK makes it into the top 20, Creator should too. My argument was a completely different one.
One more thing I'm not sure about is Leenock at rank 4... I just don't think his current form supports that. At least Parting should beat him there.
About MMA and MKP, you might be right. I haven't seen their previous games, I just know that MKP's weakest matchup has been TvT while MMA is a beast at it. Yeah he got taken out by Puma but any terran in the world can lose TvT to Puma... artosis said it so it must be true.
On April 07 2012 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: And I bet you didn't see those games. Creator won because he all inned at the perfectly right times. Had he not done that, he would've lost about every single game. So no, that series is the least telling I've seen in a long time. It did show that Creator's decisionmaking was spot on but HerO made almost no mistakes. Just look at their second series - game one is back and forth, HerO is ahead so Creator all ins bringing all his probes and barely wins. Game two, HerO destroys his expansion so Creator does a warp prism + blink all in, forcefields the ramp and wins. Game three was a double proxy gate which Creator countered perfectly. So LOL, that series can't tell you anything.
LOL. Are you saying PvP is more than just that? You said Creator's decision making is spot on. What does that say about him? Creator's strength is actually late game. I'm not saying Hero is bad, just that Creator should be on the list, considering that he was Prime's Ace for awhile (and probably still is).
Oh absolutely, don't get me wrong, Creator is a beast. Everyone knows that he's Code S caliber and if HuK makes it into the top 20, Creator should too. My argument was a completely different one.
One more thing I'm not sure about is Leenock at rank 4... I just don't think his current form supports that. At least Parting should beat him there.
About MMA and MKP, you might be right. I haven't seen their previous games, I just know that MKP's weakest matchup has been TvT while MMA is a beast at it. Yeah he got taken out by Puma but any terran in the world can lose TvT to Puma... artosis said it so it must be true.
"Artosis said it so it must be true" Hahahah, is that a joke or do you really mean it?
This is probably the hardest tournament for me to predict. Everyone is so good. So many great players. I'll wait until group stage is over to make predictions. lol
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
If it was PvP coinflip, I'd've expected it to be 3-3 though. But a 6-0 is pretty telling.
And I bet you didn't see those games. Creator won because he all inned at the perfectly right times. Had he not done that, he would've lost about every single game. So no, that series is the least telling I've seen in a long time. It did show that Creator's decisionmaking was spot on but HerO made almost no mistakes. Just look at their second series - game one is back and forth, HerO is ahead so Creator all ins bringing all his probes and barely wins. Game two, HerO destroys his expansion so Creator does a warp prism + blink all in, forcefields the ramp and wins. Game three was a double proxy gate which Creator countered perfectly. So LOL, that series can't tell you anything.
On April 06 2012 23:47 Fenrax wrote: Question from SC2 noob. Wasnt there a recent poll that said that Toss was the best race by far atm? And now the best Toss in the world is 5th and when I look at the top ELO there are no Protoss at all. How does that fit?
That's because people like to call imbalances before thinking about ways to counter them.
On April 06 2012 20:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't quite agree with Bomber at #10, otherwise pretty good. I think HerO could easily take higher spots if his nerves wouldn't interfere, I've seen him beat players above him frequently.
What makes you think that? The only player he beat in more than just 1 Bo3 was jjakji in the IPL showmatch. He has a losing record against almost everyone above him. Judging by skill Hero should be hardly making the Top20. But I guess he gets a bonus because he knowns foreign tournaments and has performed well under these circumstances.
Not really. He beat Oz 2-0 in a best of three recently in Oz' best matchup, he beats every zerg in the world frequently. This includes Leenock and NesTea, if you watch his stream. He's also beaten Jjakji in more than just the one Bo5 and beats everyone on his stream. Judging by skill, HerO should be making top 5. The only thing that keeps him from showing his skill at tournaments are his nerves. If you watch him stream, he beats everybody. If anything, the tournament atmosphere is what keeps him down. He hasn't performed well at all at those compared to what he could do.
He also got 6-0'd by creator lol who isn't Code S, so HerO is not top 5 in this Power Ranking.
That's PvP for you. I'm not saying he should be top 5 in this ranking. I'm saying he could be if it wasn't for his nerves. As it is, his rank is just fine.
Recent results show that MKP won everything... yet MMA hasn't been playing anything. Sure MKP is good but if he happens to meet MMA I'm pretty sure it's lights out for him.
If it was PvP coinflip, I'd've expected it to be 3-3 though. But a 6-0 is pretty telling.
Yeah I'd agree. That is also the best conjunction on conjunction I'd've ever said I've seen.
haha why would you ever call Leenock better than Nestea? He was during MLG Providence, and even that was because of his unnaturally good zvt back then.
EPT
GhostKingPrime and 
EG.HuK
ST_Curious
. Man I wish I was his girlfriend!
.. yeah.. cmon Ilyes, step it up. 
Cant wait to see the matches 
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