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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On October 05 2011 11:48 amazingxkcd wrote: Thanks for the amazing write up! There is one problem... BACCHUS OSL 2010 EASILY trumps EVER OSL 2007 for best motion moving picture + Show Spoiler + Its the fucking music, dude. That damn sick beat no it doesnt. what an OSL final...bw sooo good | ||
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zewker
Sweden271 Posts
much love <3 | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
You can be pedantic and pick on things in any series. Like trying to qualify it as riding an economic advantage to victory - Flash in particular did it for a whole final vs Jaedong, and does it all the time with 14CC in TvZ (especially on 2 player maps) or 1rax CC in TvP. I'd like to know how a Protoss can get to and win a final without taking any risks like 12nex so it's up to KwarK's standards. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
Kwark... you're such a fkn KJ lol Nice article regardless! | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Miragee
8711 Posts
Regardless, the rest of the article was very good! | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13090 Posts
This OSL was the best I've watched live and probably the best of all time if we take everything into consideration. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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KwarK
United States44367 Posts
On October 05 2011 19:07 Miragee wrote: Very nice article despite Kwark's part was very depressing, but I accepted it as an pure cool analysis. Then I read his comment about Flash and my thoughts shift over about his analysis being totally biased because Flash did not win, so he had to overcritize Fantasy and JangBi. It's very embarrassing. :/ Regardless, the rest of the article was very good! "herp derp Imma allin and establish a tank position behind his mineral line so I can win 2 OSL in a row derp. Oh, I can't see his mineral line cause he killed my wraith  Sucks that it's 1998 and nobody has thought of using floating buildings to scout high ground for tanks except a few people in 12 v 3 lost temple TvP"Fantasy is just not very smart. Normally I wouldn't hold that against him, a lot of people aren't very smart, but when he's an OSL finalist I have to try and do my job. From the position he was in I'd have won that game as an offracing Terran. JangBi shouldn't have been mining minerals for several minutes. How hard can it be? | ||
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KwarK
United States44367 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:54 Malinor wrote: Basically, regardless of how he plays, Flash is always the best. Even trying to take an early third base like a moron on Gladiator (hello clumped tanks and no vultures) and not playing to the map on Pathfinder. Great that we cleared that up. I understand that your job in these write-ups is to provide emotionless analysis and I guess all in all you did a fine job with the finals. Some disagreements: Game2: Scouting 14CC last on a 4player map is just tough luck. He tried DTs and then a recall. It didn't work out and Fantasy's defense was flawlessly in this specific game. We could have seen more from Jangbi in this game, but he would very likely have lost regardless of what he tried. Game4: I guess we can all agree that Jangbi should have gotten the tie easily. But I didn't view the situation in such a way that he could have easily pulled a victory here. When you have no income, scarabs are surprisingly expensive, and Dragons don't kill tanks that well. Game5: I basically disagree with everything you say about that game, so I'll just make that short. Fantasy's macro slipped up and that probably cost him the game. All the other flaws you see weren't there, plus not giving any credit to how Jangbi handled the situation, which was incredible. All in all, I really dislike the way you wrote about this OSL. Maybe for a change next seaon, you could focus less on trying to find mistakes everywhere and try to see the good plays that happened. I really enjoyed Waxangel's (easy as a Jangbi fan) and riptide's part. You can't just say "he tried a recall" as if that's him giving it his all and it just didn't pan out for him this time. Fantasy was holed up in his base with an economic advantage and all his units right there. The way you play PvT is you expand to force your opponent into the map and then you exploit your superior mobility through carriers/arbiters to counterattack while delaying his main army as much as you can, whittling it down with storms/harass while simultaneously diversifying your unit production and income to soften the blow when he hits. What JangBi did was simply randomly recall one of Fantasy's bases while Fantasy's entire army was still right there, throwing away units, recalls and momentum. If a 100m sprinter showed up to the Olympics and then ran the wrong way down the track you wouldn't go "well, sometimes that happens, he tried running but it just didn't work out for him today, sucks". You'd go "you ran the wrong fucking way, what's wrong with you? Have you never seen a running track before? Didn't you get a hint when every other runner was facing the other direction?". That's pretty much how I feel about game 2. Game 4 JangBi was mining for ages and the only reason he stopped mining in his main was because Fantasy was able to kill it because JangBi had no units because JangBi tried to break out before Fantasy finished it off. It's just bad. | ||
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Miragee
8711 Posts
On October 05 2011 19:19 KwarK wrote: From the position he was in I'd have won that game as an offracing Terran. Ah ok, that's for sure. | ||
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KwarK
United States44367 Posts
Step 1, make ebay. Step 2, lift ebay. Step 3, kiss OSL trophy. How hard can that be? | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On October 05 2011 13:47 baubo wrote: You obviously have no heart. There's a difference between perfectly played game and an emotional game. The emotions a person feel when the person you're rooting for, in game 5, down about 40 supplies, and coming back to win has nothing to do with mistakes or execution. If you watch a game for technical execution and strategy, you are correct. Game 5 isn't even close to being the best OSL game ever. But that's not the point. The storyline that built up to the match, being a game 5 of an OSL finals, being driven to a corner, with all hope of protoss fans all over Korea and the world rooting for you, and coming back. Just read the LR thread when Fantasy looked like he had the game in the bag to when Jangbi fought back. That emotion will NEVER appear in any Flash's 3-0 TvZs. It just won't. Because as fans we don't just want to see perfect play, we want to see storylines. And there hasn't been a storyline like Jangbi going from loser-king to a miraculous OSL run in the dark era of protoss in quite some time. That is why game 5 will go down in history. And no amount of bashing the execution of either player in the game will ever change that. First, yeah, sure I have no heart, thank you. Second, I liked that final, exactly for the reason you mentionned. Plus I'm a Stork fan, and I more or less dislike Fanta, so I was pretty happy with the result... But please, how was that better than the game 5 between Flash and Jaedong ? (I guess it sucked cause Flash won, or it was a BO loss, or the map, or whatever stupid reason, but yeah, it was as tense and far better played) How wasn't it ten times worse than Iris vs Bisu game 5 which by the way had imho a much better storyline ? There have been dozens of better series, and game 5, starting with the Garimto vs Boxer one, which is half the reason you liked this one so much. Honestly, I wouldn't be watching bw anymore if only for the storylines and rivalries. I'm watching it for the amazing level of micro, macro, and above all for the great decision making and strategies. I guess I'm in the minority, but can't you see my position and Kwark's makes sense too ? I guess it would have been bad for bw, but on a personnal plan, I would have exchanged this final for Flash vs Jaedong or Flash vs Fantasy any day of the week. And btw, Jangbi's victory against an arrogant and undermotivated Flash was toroughly deserved. | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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Miragee
8711 Posts
On October 05 2011 19:35 KwarK wrote: Step 1, make ebay. Step 2, lift ebay. Step 3, kiss OSL trophy. How hard can that be? I believe JangBi would have killed you with just probes countering your natural. Don't understand me wrong, I understand all your arguments about the bad decisions and the game was not nearly at the level of Flashs Games a year ago. But there were also brilliant moves in the games and only to highlight the bad things leads to a very depressing read. Also you have to understand how much pressure was on these two and how good they are at micro, macro and so on, so I don't think you should overestimate yourself that you could have won the game from there on.  On October 05 2011 19:40 corumjhaelen wrote: There have been dozens of better series, and game 5, starting with the Garimto vs Boxer one, You mean the series, where Boxer rallied out random tanks into Garimto while Garimto send out 1-2 two dragoons at a time. Yes that was incredible descisiomaking. | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
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StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Britney Dota 2  65621Calm  3667Shuttle 3170FanTaSy  1600Bisu 1574EffOrt 529Mini 451Soma 413Rush 340Stork 327[ Show more ] Counter-Strike Heroes of the Storm Other Games gofns42440 singsing2110 B2W.Neo687 hiko426 crisheroes299 byalli276 DeMusliM223 Livibee182 Hui .168 Liquid`VortiX104 Rex96 Mew2King92 ZerO(Twitch)9 |
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