EPT[NASL] Judgment Day - Page 5
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ct2299
380 Posts
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Mojitsu
9 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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000.Zulu
Germany83 Posts
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alexhard
Sweden317 Posts
On June 16 2011 20:51 legaton wrote: To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times. The NASL rejected Bomber, probably the best T in the world. Yeah vibe and dde performed better than expected, but saying that makes their spot deserved is a stretch. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On June 17 2011 05:08 alexhard wrote: The NASL rejected Bomber, probably the best T in the world. Yeah vibe and dde performed better than expected, but saying that makes their spot deserved is a stretch. At the time Bomber hadn't even played a single game in the gsl or gstl. It would have been strange, to say the least, to include him over proven code-s players. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Bad for the Players? Would it be unreasonable to tell the players to agree upon a time of their match? Or give them an ultimate time which they must play, but allow them to play sooner if they can agree upon a time that is more reasonable to both of them? Bad of the Commentators? The number of games in the regular season is crucial for truly determining the best players. Almost any top pro can upset another top pro depending on the many variables that go into a Sc2 match, including but not limited to: Having a bad day The map The matchup The current metagame The strategies chosen by each player Cheese etc. The best possible way to find the best possible player is to play a regular season format like the NASL has set up. The number of games is a necessary evil. If the demand on the casters is too great, The best solution is to increase the number of commentators. Bad for the Viewers? Just like the GSL keeps creating more and more close matches as time goes on, so will the NASL. Deciding who the best players in the world are is a much more time consuming process that a single tournament. The NASL had to start somewhere, just like any tournament does. And next season, with the current format, is going to be comprised only of those who fought to be there. American Professional sports leagues have been around for a long long time, leading to the best players, best coaches and staff in the US being in the leagues. This is a "problem" that ough to be revisited after the 3rd season of the NASL, if not later. Some critism Bo5 for Playoffs i would definitely like to see Bo5 in the playoff part of the NASL, if not throughout at least in the second round, Bo3 while exciting, will less often produce the superior player that Bo5, obviously this can be applied to Bo7, Bo9 etc, but i think a Bo5 is a nice compromise between the demand of the player and the consistancy of the outcome. Interdivisional Play I think there would be even more exciting possibilities and stories if the regular season were to have games between people of different divisions. Also it would make the overall ranking of the league more legitimate. As some divisions will by definition will be easier or harder for particular players. Thanks for reading | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I BELIEVE IN YOU! I WANT TO SEE YOU SMASHING TOURNAMENTS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER! NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER!! | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On June 17 2011 02:56 ct2299 wrote: Pretty interesting I have to say. Rainbow is listed as "bad" and Artosis and Grubby as "overrated", but there is no mention of CatZ who went 1-8 as well or Dewbie 2-7. lol. where in the hell did you get "over rated" from? the title was OUTCLASSED, and while catz did not do well he was at the very least entertaining and drewbie would have been predicted to do better, artosis ans grubby were selected on name basis alone..... that was the point of the piece, next time please read it properly before posting your thoughts p.s the bad was aimed at players who vastly under performed, again i suggest you comprehend what you read before you post | ||
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Kajarn
United States126 Posts
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote: The NFL has a high variance in win percentages, similar to the NASL, but there is one very important difference between the two leagues: the NFL doesn't show all of its games. It highlights the best games on Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and Monday night. The vast majority of the games on the NFL's schedule go unseen by the viewing public. That's how the NFL keeps the average game quality of their league high. Likewise, the NASL should cull terrible matchups from its broadcast schedule. Perhaps if Zenio is playing Painuser on Friday, the NASL should choose not to commentate that match and release replays instead (thus also reducing the casters' workloads.) Another solution might be to cast all five matches, and to simply not broadcast the worst one. Five best of threes per night is a ridiculous amount of Starcraft, and reducing the daily dose to only four won't disappoint many people, especially if the remaining match is released in the form of replays. In MLB and in the NBA, viewers don't watch every match. They watch nationally televised matches (AKA the good matches) and those of their local teams. This, again, brings up the average quality of the games watched, unless you're a Cubs fan. I'm of the opinion, in addition, that there are simply too many players in the NASL. But that aspect of the league, I think, is unlikely to change, so I won't spend any time talking about it. Ok, your analysis completely misses the point of both statistics and the comparisons between leagues, but I think I understand you point your trying to make. First off, NFL, NBA and MLB all play a wide number of games per team. NFL:16 NBA: 82 MLB: Over 150 NASL: 9 (Note: Not sure about MLB numbers, but I know they play a crap load of games) Now look at the graphs again, there is a trend when looking at the standard deviations, NASL has the largest, followed by NFL and MLB with the best. (Statistically, MLB's larger sample size is going to produce a closer to normal distribution.) Simply put, more games causes win percentages to go up. The graphs also show NFL and NASL to be the best comparisons. Second, every single game of these leagues is broadcast. In the case of the MLB and NBA especially, fans including me only watch their team and the most hyped games. Now, in terms of the NASL, because there are so many games in one week, I only watch my player every week( through VODs) and my opinion on what would be the most interesting match of the week. With this in mind, I dont think you have to stop broadcasting every game, the Brat_OK fans will VOD him all the time and the Liquid_Tyler fans will do the same. Everyone is going to watch Idra vs Boxer. All the games being cast doesn't mean all the games are watched. An interesting solution may be posting some games casted but not to the free daily audience and only through access with VODs. Although some fans may see it as a method of forcing us to buy the 25$ package. Now the point about average game quality. Personally, I dont think this can be avoided by the league at all. Some truley terrible NFL, NBA and MLB games are played, broadcasted and ridiculed. Detroit Lions anyone? New York Nicks? Houston Astros? (Note: not necessarily in last years season) Even the GSL has as Tastosis points out, some hilariously bad play. Overall, this is part of the league and only time can weed out the poor games/players. Truely, aslong as the players give it their all, poor games never arise. And for the NASL's first season, for the amount of games played, there was a very low number of bad games. Finally, although some players had poor win percentages, I belive they produced an equal amount of entertainment as any other player in the league. Catz and Grubby come to mind here. Their games are much more fun to watch even against the best of players, and much more entertaining than the worst of the NFL against the best. | ||
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djsm0ke
United States16 Posts
On June 17 2011 03:44 Mojitsu wrote: NASL can fcuk off for 360p only for non subscribers User was warned for this post Even though this point could been said in a more elegant way, I do agree that there's a certain level of greed in a lot of certain SC2 leagues. NASL is a good example where it seems like they are so eager to monetize through their stream restrictions and store that they forget the most important thing for fans is the quality of the games and commentaries. For a league that's running for the first time and to expect people to pay 25$ for where the quality of the matches is no where close to the ones seen in the GSL (and that's only 10$) it seems a little absurd. I'm more inclined to pay for GSL not only for the quality matches but also for the other content that works together to make the show more dynamic and interesting. An example of that would be, the K-pop that starts before the stream, all the extra specials they do out side of the game like with the coach matches, specials episodes etc. More importantly, GSL is played over LAN while NASL is still just an online tourny. NASL needs to step up with their production value to really distinguish themselves among the many other online tournaments. They can start by offering higher quality streams (480p is pretty standard and should definitely be free) and getting better commentators, iNcontrol is great but Gretorp is just Mr.Obvious. Quality stream, commentating, matches is what will establish a solid fan base for the league but greed will definitely make you lose. | ||
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Nethermind
New Zealand445 Posts
Thanks all contributors | ||
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Kaz.
United States69 Posts
I agree that broadcasting all games played is just way too much. Often times there were only 1-2 matches on a given evening that would be worth watching, but instead there was a huge amorphous block of time that the games were shown in, making it difficult to sit through other matches in anticipation of the ones I was waiting for. Often times I just gave up and went off to other things. If there was some sort of highlighted match feature, or at least a marquee matchup show like other professional sports leagues do, it would be better for the viewing public. The end of the regular season is where the wheels came off, to be sure. I really would have liked the casters to be able to tell me what was on the line for the players, but in most cases they were confused and had to be corrected off air. I believe that the organizational issues can be fixed if the league takes the time this off season to say, here's where we messed up, lets fix it for next season. Being the first season in a relatively experimental market (NA esports leagues), I believe the NASL guys laid a good foundation with good production, great casters, and quality games on a regular basis, and I'm personally very excited to see how they improve on this in future seasons. | ||
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Attackspeed
United States1 Post
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DDie
Brazil2369 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:46 djsm0ke wrote: Even though this point could been said in a more elegant way, I do agree that there's a certain level of greed in a lot of certain SC2 leagues. NASL is a good example where it seems like they are so eager to monetize through their stream restrictions and store that they forget the most important thing for fans is the quality of the games and commentaries. For a league that's running for the first time and to expect people to pay 25$ for where the quality of the matches is no where close to the ones seen in the GSL (and that's only 10$) it seems a little absurd. I'm more inclined to pay for GSL not only for the quality matches but also for the other content that works together to make the show more dynamic and interesting. An example of that would be, the K-pop that starts before the stream, all the extra specials they do out side of the game like with the coach matches, specials episodes etc. More importantly, GSL is played over LAN while NASL is still just an online tourny. NASL needs to step up with their production value to really distinguish themselves among the many other online tournaments. They can start by offering higher quality streams (480p is pretty standard and should definitely be free) and getting better commentators, iNcontrol is great but Gretorp is just Mr.Obvious. Quality stream, commentating, matches is what will establish a solid fan base for the league but greed will definitely make you lose. Agreed, i subscribed for the NASL and there is no way in hell i will do so again, ever. Terrible stream quality, meeeh commentators, meeh games. I'm actually impressed that now non subscribers can only watch 360p, that's laughable, really. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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bakesale
United States187 Posts
On June 16 2011 20:51 legaton wrote: To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times. [...] I think the invite system was just for season 1 since it was new and unknown. As an established league, I think the open slots in season 2 will be determined by qualifiers. I may be wrong on both of those points, but I am pretty sure that's how Geoff has explained it on SotG. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
On June 16 2011 20:48 PapaHades wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cSKAgl.jpg) User was temp banned for this post. I have to admit even though this is completely off topic and inappropriate it did kind of lighten up the mood reading through the comment pages. Not that I have never seen the picture, it is just that I never knew someone either had the guts or was just that trollish (or dumb in a harsh way) to post that here lol. | ||
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Hammurabio
152 Posts
On June 18 2011 13:36 Primadog wrote: From what I heard, free 480p was dropped to help reduce server load from expected increase of viewership in the post-season. Looks like that theory was debunked with 60,000+ viewers watching the 720p DH streams. IMO, this was just a pure money-grab. | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
No major network is going to show a game nationally between the Toronto Raptors and Denver nobody gives a crap. It has nothing to do with the quality of the games and everything to do with the demand for them. If it were up to the NBA, every single game would be broadcast nationally. But alas, major networks won't do that. Although I do agree that NASL would do well to cut out the garbage matches. Sometimes one or both players just play so poorly that the games aren't entertaining. Or the matches end before anything happens. Things happen and I would love it if they cut out one BO3 every week. I don't really enjoy watching NASL for 4 hours when a bunch of the matches suck. I'd totally them cutting out one MU every week and then simply releasing the replays. On June 19 2011 23:25 Hammurabio wrote: Looks like that theory was debunked with 60,000+ viewers watching the 720p DH streams. IMO, this was just a pure money-grab. I lagged hard during dreamhack and had to watch it on 480p (as did many others). And no it wasn't my internet connection. I have never had problems watching streams on the highest quality. And for NASL, that simply can't happen. I've paid 25 bucks for NASL so if it lags when I try to watch it in HQ, I'm going to be angry. Dreamhack doesn't have that problem because it was all free (and so no one can complain when HQ lags for them). I don't know why people fail to realize that NASL has no major sponsors so they have to make money by monetizing the stream as much as possible (commercials + subscriptions). If they don't this league will never last so I have no problem with it. Also, people need to stop comparing NASL to GSL. GSL has a ton of major sponsors and are also approaching their 8th iteration (or something like that). GSL also had their fair share of problems with casters, stream lag, low stream quality and low quality games (Season 1 and 2 were a cornucopia of awful games). It takes time for the kinks to be worked out. | ||
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