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On May 17 2010 13:26 Zato-1 wrote:It does... I just can't understand a word of it ¬¬
Basically, SBS, KBS and MBC are the main public broadcasting companies and are "mainstream" (not to be confused with "reliable" or "newsworthy"). Having the starcraft scandal appear on all three of the broadcasting networks' evening news ( I assume it's the evening news.. I could be wrong) .. makes it a pretty big deal.
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On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable."
We cannot just call him scum for fixing matches. I still look up to him as my hero because I greatly admire his damn good starcraft skills and achievements.
It sounds really wrong.
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Its all Bisu's fault for beating Savior and forcing him to turn to a life of crime.
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On May 17 2010 14:29 kyophan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable." We cannot just call him scum for fixing matches. I still look up to him as my hero because I greatly admire his damn good starcraft skills and achievements. It sounds really wrong.
I am forced to agree... just because he fixed matches does not take away how great he was at starcraft.
Just like how Tiger Wood's cheating on his wife does not take away how great he is at golf.
People seem to forget this a lot and lump everything together, a persons character does not really affect their greatness.
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Lol savior why seriously? u knew u would get caught wtf
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On May 17 2010 14:41 Traveler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 14:29 kyophan wrote:On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable." We cannot just call him scum for fixing matches. I still look up to him as my hero because I greatly admire his damn good starcraft skills and achievements. It sounds really wrong. I am forced to agree... just because he fixed matches does not take away how great he was at starcraft. Just like how Tiger Wood's cheating on his wife does not take away how great he is at golf. People seem to forget this a lot and lump everything together, a persons character does not really affect their greatness.
Tiger Woods didn't cheat at his sport. Doesn't seem like a very good comparison oO
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Poll: New Savior's ID?[Oops]Busted (49) 40% Roll-EX (45) 37% Judas[bm] (14) 12% By.Accident (10) 8% Lies[WHITE] (3) 2% 121 total votes Your vote: New Savior's ID? (Vote): By.Accident
(Vote): Judas[bm]
(Vote): Lies[WHITE]
(Vote): [Oops]Busted
(Vote): Roll-EX
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On May 17 2010 14:29 kyophan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable." We cannot just call him scum for fixing matches. I still look up to him as my hero because I greatly admire his damn good starcraft skills and achievements. It sounds really wrong.
scum is a term to describe immoral characters. matchfixing is immoral, and getting younger players with potential to matchfix is even more unethical. it doesnt matter what he has accomplished in his earlier life.
@above LOL ROLL-EX
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On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable."
Let me explain this for you really fucking slowly so you could understand:
NO...ONE...IS...DENYING...HIS...SKILL...AT...THE...GAME...OR...HIS...PAST...ACHIEVEMENTS
And for that matter, no one is saying the world is all sunshines and daisies either. No one here gives a shit if Savior's an alcoholic or a womanizer (rekrul would love it if that's the case lol), but what Savior was doing is FUCKING PISSING on the those who worked so hard to make the sport what it's like today, by abusing his position to sell matches and get other players in on it. The Maradona examples that you used has NOTHING compare to what he did. So he did some drugs that cost him his career. Tough shit. I don't care, and i will always be one of his fan because of the sheer skill the man once had. What Savior did was (and i will do this slowly):
FUCKING...EVERY...ONE...OVER...TO...GET...RICH
Now, everyone has his reason, and i will not judge him on that or call him scum. My position (and maybe a lot of other TLers) is this: I will not root for him, or any other caught cheaters, because they had illegitimate the one thing that many of us has come here for: Professional Starcraft. This is what the guy above you was trying to say, but you were too hung on one goddamn pointless point (lol) to listen. And, from the way you represented your one point on that post i first quoted, it sounds like this:
HE CAN BEAT YOU SO HE'S OKAY HERP DERP DERP
And that's why I jumped it because it is so fucking retarded!
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This is quite possibly one of the worst things to happen at one of the worst times. In fact, its so bad I almost want to say they revealed it now to effectively kill the scene so SC2 can make its move. But I'm not saying I believe that. Its just a thought.
I was never a savior fan, perhaps because I wasn't into pro league so much back then. But to see any player do something so terrible after what the first pro players had to go through to give us what we have today.
After the WC3 scandals completely killed their pro scene, how could any SC pro player look at this as anything but a crime not worth any price? There are a lot of terrible things in this world done in the name of a few dollars. But this is something that is going to go beyond one's own reputation. The scene is going to suffer for this and I'd like every player who participated in these fixes to have to look their team members in the eye and apologize for doing something that could've robbed every last one of them of their careers. Without integrity these sports and leagues simply cannot exist.
If I was in charge, I'd have them all banned from any and all KeSPA sanctioned play. And if I was in charge and no one could question me, they'd all be branded. A red hot broken keyboard shaped burn applied to their face that everyone who gazed upon them might know of what they've done.
In this life or the next my dear greedy gamers, you will burn for this. You will burn.
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I am shocked and disappointed that Hwasin would be involved in something like this. He's always been one of my favorite progamers 
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 17 2010 14:55 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable." Let me explain this for you really fucking slowly so you could understand: NO...ONE...IS...DENYING...HIS...SKILL...AT...THE...GAME...OR...HIS...PAST...ACHIEVEMENTS And for that matter, no one is saying the world is all sunshines and daisies either. No one here gives a shit if Savior's an alcoholic or a womanizer (rekrul would love it if that's the case lol), but what Savior was doing is FUCKING PISSING on the those who worked so hard to make the sport what it's like today, by abusing his position to sell matches and get other players in on it. The Maradona examples that you used has NOTHING compare to what he did. So he did some drugs that cost him his career. Tough shit. I don't care, and i will always be one of his fan because of the sheer skill the man once had. What Savior did was (and i will do this slowly): FUCKING...EVERY...ONE...OVER...TO...GET...RICH Now, everyone has his reason, and i will not judge him on that or call him scum. My position (and maybe a lot of other TLers) is this: I will not root for him, or any other caught cheaters, because they had illegitimate the one thing that many of us has come here for: Professional Starcraft. This is what the guy above you was trying to say, but you were too hung on one goddamn pointless point (lol) to listen. And, from the way you represented your one point on that post i first quoted, it sounds like this: HE CAN BEAT YOU SO HE'S OKAY HERP DERP DERP And that's why I jumped it because it is so fucking retarded!
Don't you worry you'll never get a chance to root for him again lol
and LOOOOOOOL @ [Oops]Busted
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It really sucks for progaming as a whole but I can't help to find some sexyness in the persona of Savior. He REALLY impersonates the villain 
Someone plz photoshop Ma jae hoon with a cigar a hat and a white 30's suit !
edit : oh and of course I voted for [Oops]Busted :D !! His TLPD needs to be updated ASAP !!
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On May 17 2010 14:59 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 14:55 O-ops wrote:On May 17 2010 14:01 Zato-1 wrote:On May 17 2010 13:42 Redmark wrote:On May 17 2010 13:34 Zato-1 wrote:
hahahahahahaha. I am the farthest thing possible from a Savior fanboy- If you didn't understand my point, let me reiterate it for you:
Savior's the hero of a lot of people in the Brood Wars scene- just like Boxer, Jaedong, or Bisu, name your pick. We don't look up to these people due to their outstanding moral character- we look up to them because they're mind-blowingly good at Starcraft.
I'd be offended by your tone, but your comment is just too funny for someone who's had to endure the ravings of actual Savior fanboys for so long. So let's say that he's the greatest player to have ever played starcraft. And he got lazy. And he maphacked. Are you saying that you wouldn't care, just because he's mind-blowingly good at starcraft? People are hurt because he has made all of his games, and progaming in general, seem illegitimate. When you say that these criticisms are invalid because he's better at starcraft than anyone here... can you understand how much that misses the point? Your reading comprehension is appalling. Really slowly now, so you can follow: The world isn't black and white. You can have very successful businessmen who are lousy parents; great starcraft players who are very bad mannered; and great leaders of people who engage in corruption. In Savior's case, there's this ugly side of his life everyone's commenting in this thread. Criticizing it is completely valid, because it was retarded of him to get involved in this. However, this doesn't mean Savior goes from hero to villain overnight; dropping matches certainly doesn't invalidate his past achievements. Maradona is arguably the best football (soccer) player ever, but he did drugs- does his drug use (purely recreational, no steroids or such) invalidate his kickass football skills? No. You have to take the good with the bad. I feel it is unfair to Savior to just say, "He was engaged in illegal match-fixing and is therefore scum" What I'm saying instead is, "He's a very talented and successful Starcraft player, who also engaged in illegal match-fixing. The former quality is commendable; the latter, deplorable." Let me explain this for you really fucking slowly so you could understand: NO...ONE...IS...DENYING...HIS...SKILL...AT...THE...GAME...OR...HIS...PAST...ACHIEVEMENTS And for that matter, no one is saying the world is all sunshines and daisies either. No one here gives a shit if Savior's an alcoholic or a womanizer (rekrul would love it if that's the case lol), but what Savior was doing is FUCKING PISSING on the those who worked so hard to make the sport what it's like today, by abusing his position to sell matches and get other players in on it. The Maradona examples that you used has NOTHING compare to what he did. So he did some drugs that cost him his career. Tough shit. I don't care, and i will always be one of his fan because of the sheer skill the man once had. What Savior did was (and i will do this slowly): FUCKING...EVERY...ONE...OVER...TO...GET...RICH Now, everyone has his reason, and i will not judge him on that or call him scum. My position (and maybe a lot of other TLers) is this: I will not root for him, or any other caught cheaters, because they had illegitimate the one thing that many of us has come here for: Professional Starcraft. This is what the guy above you was trying to say, but you were too hung on one goddamn pointless point (lol) to listen. And, from the way you represented your one point on that post i first quoted, it sounds like this: HE CAN BEAT YOU SO HE'S OKAY HERP DERP DERP And that's why I jumped it because it is so fucking retarded! Don't you worry you'll never get a chance to root for him again lol and LOOOOOOOL @ [Oops]Busted
And oh, since we're on the topic, do Koreans still consider Savior one of the four bonjwas or is it too soon to tell?
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Voted for [Oops]Busted just because the tag is my ID lol. But gotta say, all those are so artistically simple lol. Love 'em.
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I voted for Roll-Ex, it made me lol for 2 reasons (1: his watch, 2: reminds me of the infamous combat-ex).
Most netizen's comments are what Kona translated in his Op: screw you sAviOr (oops, I mean Roll-Ex, lololol), screw the match-fixing scums, all you scums go kneel in front of BoxeR / YellOw / Reach / Oov / Nada and beg for mercy/forgiveness, etc. I'm not as angry as some of the people here and in other forums because I wasn't a big fan of sAviOr or Hwasin in the first place (but I was a fool to choose Hwasin for my FPL this season... his price was reasonable! at least STX is winning).
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I wonder how much Mondragon paid...
![[image loading]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/melianvert/starcraft/IMG_0412.jpg)
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maybe betting is against the law, but wouldn't throwing a game be your own personal right? unless they signed a contract or whatever to try to win.
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On May 17 2010 15:23 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
maybe betting is against the law, but wouldn't throwing a game be your own personal right? unless they signed a contract or whatever to try to win.
I'm sure there are things in their contracts about this. Or at least in KeSPA regulations.
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i think it's the betting/gambling that's illegal.
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