|
[OSL] Upping the Ante
January 6th, 2010 19:50 GMT
Quarterfinals Day One: December 18th, 2009
The first day of the OSL quarterfinals came almost as soon as the Round of 16 ended. With the promise of LeeSsangRok, nerds everywhere were lining up to watch the games. Hype was through the roof, as it always is when Flash and Jaedong are scheduled to play. While Flash versus Jaedong was certainly the match of the night, each set had its own promise and flair.
The korean nerds are stoked too
The first match of the night was Flash versus Jaedong, starting off the night with supersonic hype levels. Calm versus Pure would follow, possibly the least hyped match-up in the mix. However, Calm had been showing a pretty strong performance coming into this match. Pure, although he was the underdog, had shown a strong performance against ZerO in the previous Round of 16.
Movie versus ZerO was another highly anticipated match. Movie's PvZ has always been a blast to watch and ZerO never fails to bring the noise against his Protoss foes. The day would end with Shine versus Stork. The most hated progamer amongst TL netizens versus one of the most beloved. Let the games begin.
 Flash has said in interviews that the OSL maps are very good for Zerg against Terran with the exception of Fighting Spirit, which was the map used in game 1 and which currently stands with a 60% TvZ advantage, statistically. Thus, in Flash's mind at least, game 1 was a must-win game: he didn't want to have to win two games in a row against Lee Jae Dong on unfavorable maps.
 Jaedong 12 hatched into 3 hatch muta and Flash went 11 rax 15cc into standard play. With such an early cc, there was obviously going to be some early ling pressure, but Flash handled it easily with some gosu supply depot and SCV placement. Flash made the standard timing attack while the spire was going up that every Terran facing 3 hatch muta does, but Jaedong was smart enough to have three sunken colonies building when Flash's MnM force moved across the center of the map. Flash was content to prevent Jaedong's third base from going up, instead.
The problem with the way Flash shut down Jaedong's third base was that his initial army was on the other side of the map when Jaedong's muta/ling army attacked his natural. Flash was OK, though; he had a bunker at his natural and a sizable force in his main and turrets freaking everywhere. Still, having half his army on the other side of the map probably wasn't a good thing. Flash has run into problems in the past when he has felt confident enough in his defense to take chances, with sometimes disastrous results.
LeeSsangRok
This time, though, he was fine. Jaedong lost all of his lings and a muta to Flash's marines, and the time that he had to harass was limited since +1 was destined to come relatively early because of the correspondingly early engineering bay. Jaedong didn't seriously attempt to harass after the first attack; instead, he tried to get his third up. Flash was on the ball in preventing Jaedong's third, with an SCV scouting all of the available expansion spots. When he found the just-completed hatchery, it was pretty much over for Jaedong. All Flash had to do was show some godly micro and army control on the way to the third and the game was his. He dodged Jaedong's lurkers, sniped his mutas, and killed the hatch.
At the same time that he was trying, again, to get a third base up, Jaedong tried a desperation backstab against Flash's main with mutas and lings. Unfortunately, most of Flash's army was right next to his base, and he had a control group on the other side of the map streaming towards Jaedong's third. Predictably, he killed the attack and he killed the third, and that was the end for Jaedong.
Flash had complete control of the game from beginning to end. It's hard to see what Jaedong could have done to get a third up. Lurkers at the ramp during his second attempt would have been nice, but Flash was getting tech fast and defilers wouldn't have been in time to save Jaedong.
Calm put down his 12 hatch at another natural expansion, which was pretty out of the ordinary. Obviously, he was locked into double expanding against  Pure's forge-nexus. In a heads-up play, Pure took advantage of Calm's hatchery being on the other side of the map from his first lings and cannon rushed that hatchery, killing it without any opposition from Calm. Technically, though, Pure spent more minerals to cannon rush the hatchery than it took to build! Pure's core (and thus his tech) was delayed, and, as it happened, Calm's tech was right on schedule. Soon, mutalisks and scourge were flying into Pure's base, killing everything. Pure typed out, surely with a resolve in his heart to beef up his base defense in game 2.
ZerO started Game 1 by going 9 pool → losing a drone to a probe → double expand. You won't find that build on Liquipedia. ZerO deviated very slightly from the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build that every zerg and their grandmother has been using since early last year, putting down his 4th hatchery slightly early. Movie transitioned into corsair/reaver because that's what you do on HBR, man. Bisu went sair/citadel against Shine, and we all know how that turned out. Besides, all of the Protosses that are currently showing strength against Zerg (Kal, Movie, Bisu on maps not named HBR) are heavily incorporating reavers into their play.
While the first shuttle was building, a quartet of zealots sojourned into ZerO's nat and died terrible deaths after killing a drone or two and stopping mining for a while. Movie's shuttle almost met the same fate right outside ZerO's base when two scourge were in the same hex as that shuttle, peeking though the windows at the reaver within. They flew away without doing anything. Scourge are pretty stupid.
Movie was spooked enough to retreat with his corsairs and shuttle. He dropped his reaver off at his natural for defense and suicided all of his corsairs while trying to kill a few overlords. At the same time, he put down six gateways... maybe losing the sairs was just freeing up supply? Either that, or Movie is really, really bad at corsair control: he lost about six sairs for basically nothing.
After killing all those sairs, maybe it would have made sense for ZerO to switch to mutas. He didn't; he kept pumping hydras. A group of 9 mutas at Movie's base at about 10:30 would have meant big trouble for Movie. He had hardly any anti-air.
Anyway, at around the time ZerO's imaginary mutas were ravaging Movie's base, Movie had loaded up 3 HT into a shuttle and flown over to do some damage. Once again, ZerO's scourge were blinded by the shiny Protoss unit that they were supposed to destroy. ZerO did as good a job dodging a storm with drones at his main as is humanly possible, but the drones at the nat weren't as nimble. Having done its duty, the shuttle died an honorable death, failing to cheat death for a third time.
Now ZerO had a muta group, but Movie's many gateways had done their job and there was a sizable goon/temp force at the Protoss natural along with the reavers. There was nothing ZerO could have done with either his Hydras or Mutas to harass or break Movie. When Movie moved out, ZerO tried to snipe HTs, but the mutas he lost probably weren't worth it.
The three faces of defeat
Instead of playing passively and trying to defend his four bases with his newly morphed lurkers, ZerO strangely tired to kill Movie's army outright in a single pincer attack. It didn't work, and ZerO was doomed. He typed out when Movie's formidable army broke down the front door of his base.
Shine opened with the same build that ZerO did in his first game against Movie, a build which seems to be popular among zergs in this OSL despite its obvious disadvantages.
Shine displayed his fantastically aggressive nature right off the bat when he attacked Stork's sim city with his initial six lings, despite the fact that Stork had a solid wall of probes defending. He killed a few probes, but, obviously, didn't get through. The game slowed down soon afterwards, with Shine employing the zerg bread and butter of 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra. Stork went corsair/reaver, a build which he has had great success with in the past.
Stork moved his initial group of shuttle/sair up to Shine's main, catching Shine totally off guard and killing a few drones. When Shine called in the cavalry in the form of mutas, Stork got the heck out of dodge... but why? He had six sairs and there were no scourge in sight. He should have stood his ground and tried to kill him some mutas! Stork paid for his dishonorable move by promptly losing his shuttle to scourge when it tried to harass at Shine's nat.
Shine was soon getting a fourth base up and sending out a muta/scourge strike force on the hunt for corsairs. After some scourge cloning that could have gone better, Stork had enough of an air force to head over to Shine's main again with a shuttle full of DTs. In a tense sequence, Stork tried to clear overlords with his corsairs and escape detection with his DTs, failing on both counts.
Shine used some fantastic muta/scourge maneuvering to stop mining at Stork's third base. At the time, Stork storm dropped Shine, getting about eight drone kills. Shine wasn't able to kill the nexus (right away) or the shuttle, but he came incredibly close to doing both. He got the nexus in a muta raid about a minute later.
Stork kept storm dropping and doing decent damage. Unfortunately, he was pretty obviously behind in economy and almost mined out in his main. Shine's killer mutas kept taking targets of opportunity, and hive tech was on the way.
Actually, hive tech wasn't on the way. Mutas just kept popping at the fifteen minute mark of the game. At one point, during a push by Stork, Shine proved once and for all that he is absolutely freaking insane when he attacked an archon head on with his mutas. Somehow, Shine's pure muta army destroyed Stork's push.
After the push, the game settled back into its previous mode: Shine's mutas giving Stork nightmares, and Stork's HTs killing drone after drone. When Stork tried to break the cycle by attacking, Shine simply destroyed Stork's last mining base with a fleet of mutas. The hilarious thing is that Shine had a bunch of excess minerals and gas during all this; you'd assume that building mutas isn't that difficult. Stork couldn't recover his lost base and typed out after some futile attempts.
Quarterfinals Day Two: December 25th
Another match of LeeSsangRok makes a pretty good Christmas gift. On Christmas day, the rest of the Ro8 matches were to be played. Everyone got a piece of the Christmas joy. The progamers were wearing Christmas hats and Kim Carrier even donned a full Santa outfit! Many hoped for a great gift in the form of great games. As the countdown toward the first game started, many hoped their Christmas wish would come true.
A spot in the semi-finals was a big deal. The player would receive a seed into the next OSL and greatly increase their chance at winning the entire tournament. The road to the Ro8 had been quite dramatic indeed. Most of the favorite players advanced on, creating a Ro8 filled with monster players (Flash, Stork, Jaedong, Calm) and monster expectations.
The dream for many was an OSL finals rematch of Stork versus Flash. Their first meeting on the finals stage of the Starleague was in 2008, when Flash trashed Stork and began his pure domination of the year. Or, Jaedong and Stork could meet once more. Their first meeting was another dominant victory for the Tyrant, resulting in yet another OSL silver for Stork.
Regardless of who advanced, the hype was high. As long as a Calm versus Shine finals weren't in order, hopefully many would be satisfied.
On December 25 2009 15:38 thopol wrote:
Seriously. Best gift ever. The gift of gosu.
Game 2 was a game which brought back the "Cheddar Terran" nickname to use for Flash. There's no point in recounting such a micro-based game; suffice it to say that Flash executed a well-designed bunker rush, killed Jaedong's first scouting overlord (smartly taking advantage of the redesign of HBR), and won. Please watch the VOD if you want to marvel at the clever build or, if you're a Jaedong fan, to get into the proper mindset for when Flash and Jaedong inevitably meet in the MSL finals.
Flash said this in a post-game interview:
-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
For Pure, Game 2 ended the same way as game 1: with mutalisks ravaging the Protoss main. Calm 9 pooled and did the most all-in 2 hatch muta build you'll ever see. I think there were 8 drones mining minerals when mutas started building. Once again, Pure didn't secure his base quickly enough and a horde of mutas killed his main nexus. Pure tried to prolong the game, but victory was impossible. Ironically, Shine, not Calm, was the person getting hated on in the live report thread for cheese on the day this game was played.
After 9-pooling yet again, ZerO double expanded, with the location of the third base across the map. He went lair followed by a 4th hatch and a spire, which is very standard for modern zergs. However, after 5 hatches had been put down, ZerO got greedy by expanding quickly instead of securing the two chokes that he had to defend with sunken colonies. Also, he didn't have zerglings to fill the gaps of the morphing sunken colonies when Movie attacked with speed zealots and a couple dragoons. These two facts combined to ensure that Movie had an extremely successful attack. He ravaged ZerO's third base, killing the hatchery and a bunch of drones. Shortly afterwards, Movie got a third base of his own up and running and began amassing a huge food advantage.
ZerO went heavy muta, but Movie had a very strong anti-air defense: lots of archons and cannons, and three corsairs just for kicks. ZerO's mutas weren't able to do anything. ZerO built a whole bunch of sunkens at each of his bases and basically just hoped for the best.
"The best" came when ZerO luckily killed a shuttle/reaver with his mutas and was able to delay Movie's fourth base with a squad of lings. Despite this, Movie still had an enormous food advantage. After a few other big breaks for ZerO, including a second shuttle snipe and an effective pincer attack, Movie was able to build another army with ease and roll over ZerO's third and fourth bases. ZerO tried to delay the GG with ultras, but even they couldn't win him the day.
In between games 1 and 2, Stork swore in an interview that he wouldn't suffer the embarrassment of losing to pure mutalisks again. Shine helped Stork to fulfill that promise by using an entirely different strategy from his first game.
Fighting Spirit produces more epic PvZ games than any other current map. Simply go through TLPD and look at the game lengths for PvZs to confirm that claim. This game was no different: Shine pushed Stork to the limit with aggressive play for 25 solid minutes. Stork knew what he was getting into. In an interview after his win against Kwanro, Stork said that the name "Typhoon Zerg" was solely reserved for Shine. Stork drew a clear distinction between Kwanro's suicidally aggressive play and Shine's intelligently aggressive play.
Right away, Shine gained a small economic advantage when Stork went forge first despite Shine's 12 hatch. Stork put down a quick gateway, though, so he was able to get a cybernetics core up at about the same time as his first cannon, which is obviously ridiculously fast. Stork followed up with a fast robo and his sairs started to kill Shine's overlords.
After Shine's spire finished, Stork carelessly lost a corsair to scourge. Outside Stork's natural, Shine showed his aggressive nature by engaging Stork's small army with a small number of lings, losing more material than he killed. After the lings were driven off, Stork brought a probe to an expansion location. At this point, because Shine showed no inclination to expand, it became obvious what the game-deciding battle would be: Shine would pump lair units off of three bases in an effort to keep Stork from gaining an economic advantage with a third base. Stork needed to defend with his reavers, or he would lose the game to Shine's overwhelming aggression.
First, though, Stork made a cursory attempt to use his corsair/reaver in a traditional harass, but he didn't do any damage due to Shine researching BURROW (love ya, Shine). Stork promptly brought his reavers back to defend, and, in turn, Shine moved to attack Stork's third base.
After some DT harass that did very little damage, Shine loaded up his hydras into overlords and tried a drop on Stork's main. It largely failed due to some good storms, but it brought Stork's army out of position and left his third open to attack. This is why Shine's style of aggressiveness is different from zergs like Kwanro's: each of his seemingly suicidal attacks has a purpose.
After a dramatic sequence in which two reavers crawled from Stork's main base to his third to defend, Shine had to retreat and expand himself. After the failed attack, Shine was in a pretty bad position. Stork had a food advantage and an economic advantage. Stork did his best to let Shine back in the game with an utterly failed storm drop, but his advantage was great enough that it probably didn't matter. Besides, he followed up with a hero DT that deftly skirted outside the range of the spore colony at Shine's third base.
Shine tried to harass Stork's army with mutas, but the Protoss army was too dragoon-heavy for any kind of templar sniping to go on too long. Shine did a good job of delaying Stork's push, though, sniping observers with skill.
At around this time, the food counts for each player were almost equal, but Stork's army composition was extremely strong. It was very heavy on dragoons and had substantial reaver/temp support. It was the perfect counter to Shine's muta/lurker.
Slowly but surely, Stork broke out. He sent a shuttle filled with zealots to Shine's fourth, and, intentionally or not, it drew Shine's mutas away. This made it easier for Stork to get across the bridge behind which Shine's lurkers lay. As Stork broke the contain, he expanded on Shine's side of the map.
Soon, Shine's contain was in shambles and his mutas were dead. The subsequent attack on Shine's natural was some of the best archon/goon micro in recent memory, but it didn't matter once dark swarm suddenly went up. Stork had to wait for his inevitable victory to take place.
After a few minutes, Stork attacked Shine's natural with reaver support and Shine typed out.
In game 3 on HBR, Shine 9 pooled and tried to mine out the minerals above Stork's base. Stork noticed the cheese only at the last second, and was able to get probes in position to defend just in time. After some dancing around, Shine had to leave after doing almost no damage. It's not as if the attempt hurt him badly, though.
Stork went sair/dt and Shine went 3 hatch spire into 4 hatch scourge/muta. Stork lost a corsair carelessly to scourge for the second game in a row, opening the door for Shine to ravage Stork's main from the air. To the dismay of every Starcraft fan who wanted a Stork vs Flash rematch in the finals of the OSL, Stork's counterattack with zealots failed miserably and he had a hard time driving Shine's mutas away.
Just like in game 1, Shine's mutas made Stork miserable, but unlike game 1, he macroed up a strong hydralisk follow-up. His attack on Stork natural with a combined hydra/muta army ended the game; he had impeccable control throughout. Stork typed out with a look of utmost dejection.
With the conclusion of Jaedong being cheesed in the second game and Stork losing to Shine; fanboys were enraged. In the Day 2 Live Report thread, many were banned for their foolish comments. Indeed, Shine[KaL] was to be in the semi-finals over Stork.
Although Jaedong could not match Flash in a straight-up game, his loss to a bunker rush can be partly blamed on his poor response to the attack. Whether the cheese had happened or not, Flash is in another class of TvZ from the Tyrant. Flash's road to the finals is getting easier by the minute. If not even Jaedong can pose a serious threat, what zerg can? Only time will tell.
Shine's advancement was well-deserved on his part. His mutalisk control is in another dimension of skill, his aggressive style is smart rather than suicidal and goofy like Kwanro's. Shine has earned his nickname "The Typhoon" and his furious storm of Lair Tech aggression has left Protoss players by the wayside. Even Flash would have to be wary of Shine's style, as Flash has lost TvZ in embarrassing fashion before by skimping out on early game defense.
Shine, sadly, is the most hated progamer on TeamLiquid. Shine has beyond sick control of his units and a really aggressive and fun style to watch, but he is discredited as a progamer because he has yet to show strong management skills. Maybe Shine will win some people over as time goes on; even Stork was once the most hated progamer.
Movie has worked hard to get where he is and he deserves his position. If anyone should be playing Flash in the finals, it's Movie. While Movie can be a bit sloppy in his execution, he has a very solid mental game. In a Bo5, who knows what kind of interesting cheeses and builds Movie can pull out against the "Ultimate Weapon."
The Semi-Finals will finish January 8th (KST) and the finals will be played on the 17th. Either Movie or Shine will face Flash to become an OSL champion. Flash is looking to take both leagues, while the others are looking to become the next royal roader.
I want to be royal.
There is a lot at stake. Flash could become the second progamer to ever win two simultaneous Starleagues. This accomplishment combined with his breaking of 2400 ELO would be utterly astounding. Shine could prove the haters wrong and defeat the best TvZ in the world to prove he has what it takes to be one of the best. Movie could succeed the six dragons and become the next champion of CJ.
Shine and Movie are going to have a tough time. Flash owns this season. When either one of them enters the stage of the grand finals, it will seem as though they have been sentenced to an execution rather than a simple game of StarCraft. The ante has been upped and there is no turning back.
|
Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I still wanna kill Shine. Can't believe Stork got knocked out by SHINE.
But great writeup. Helped me loads to catch up on what I've missed during my absence.
But it seems like Movie played like a complete baller to take down Zero.
|
Nice read, loved the "sentence to execution" finish haha.
|
" Flash could become the second progamer to ever win two Starleagues. "
???
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
On January 07 2010 05:04 ReketSomething wrote:
" Flash could become the second progamer to ever win two Starleagues. "
??? (at the same time)
|
Canada5565 Posts
When either one of them enters the stage of the grand finals, it will seem as though they have been sentenced to an execution rather than a simple game of StarCraft.
So true! I always feel this way when I watch Flash play. His facial expression more than anything gives me the feeling that his opponent is already dead, he seems to have an aura of supreme confidence and is never shaken.
I disagree that Shine is most hated on TeamLiquid...I mean, it must be Kwanro. And besides, anyone who watched MSL selection and knows what Shine is like would stand up for him any day 
But I do agree about Movie having a good mental game, he seems really solid. However, I remember reading interviews where he said he feels really nervous at times.
|
yea that was a little unclear
maybe, win both star leagues at the same time?
good writeup otherwise
|
Xxio Canada. January 07 2010 05:13. Posts 474 PM Profile Blog Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When either one of them enters the stage of the grand finals, it will seem as though they have been sentenced to an execution rather than a simple game of StarCraft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So true! I always feel this way when I watch Flash play. His facial expression more than anything gives me the feeling that his opponent is already dead, he seems to have an aura of supreme confidence and is never shaken.
I disagree that Shine is most hated on TeamLiquid...I mean, it must be Kwanro. And besides, anyone who watched MSL selection and knows what Shine is like would stand up for him any day
But I do agree about Movie having a good mental game, he seems really solid. However, I remember reading interviews where he said he feels really nervous at times.Last edit: 2010-01-07 05:15:45
Flash - "I think a big reason why I'm able to win so much is because I'm already ahead in the mental game."
I don't know, I always thought of Kwanro as more of a Meme, or a goofy sort of hate than raw, "I WANT THIS MOFO DEAD!"
|
On January 07 2010 05:19 KOFgokuon wrote:
yea that was a little unclear
maybe, win both star leagues at the same time?
good writeup otherwise
i fixed that, whoopsie
|
Too much Kwanro-hate. He is a good Zerg, and waaaaay better than Shine. Shine is a victim. I hope he dies vs Movie, even on El Nino. I want him to breakdown and cry.
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
I believe that any amount of Kwanro-hate is justified, but you don't have to take my word for it. Remember, Stork hates Kwanro, too, even though he keeps winning against him.
|
not all up-and-comers are hated, Effort was an up and comer and he's not hated by everyone and neither is Movie.
|
NaDa is the only one so far to win both leagues in the same season, right?
4th KPGA League (later renamed MSL): 10-15-2002 to 1-18-2003
Panasonic OSL: 11-15-2002 to 2-14-2003
And I don't like all this Shine hate. He's a brilliant player. As I've said before, he's probably the strongest early-midgame player in the world. And I really hope he wins over Movie. I like Movie, but I think Shine-Flash will be a more exciting finals. I don't think there is any Zerg who can win in a management game vs Flash right now, but it would be interesting to see if Flash can hold his own against Shine's ruthless aggression.
|
jesus, santa's helper on the left really put on alot of weight.
|
Why are Flash and Jaedong playing in the quarterfinals? Brackets should've been made to avoid that t.t
|
This is a high quality write up. This Actually made me like Shine a little.
|
That first boothgirl is hideous.
|
Calgary25974 Posts
On January 07 2010 05:59 Kenpachi wrote:
That first boothgirl is hideous.
She's not suepr cute but that is a bad pic of her.
|
Why did Flash and Jaedong have to meet in the quarterfinals...
T___________________T
|
|
|
+ Show Spoiler +Either Movie or Shine will face Flash to become an OSL champion.
Nice spoiler or what ? It is a review of the quarter finals, some people may not have seen/want to see the result of a semi while looking at this post.
Still, it's a good review Thanks
|
On January 07 2010 06:04 Nal_rAwr wrote:
booth girls are hot lol
Neither do it for me lol
|
On January 07 2010 04:55 Roffles wrote:
I still wanna kill Shine. Can't believe Stork got knocked out by SHINE.
Shine knocked out a lot of big names, doesn't that mean that he's really good atm? And he never even cheesed him. Not that it really matters, Flash will still win in the end.
On January 07 2010 06:03 ForTheSwarm wrote:
Why did Flash and Jaedong have to meet in the quarterfinals...
T___________________T
'Cause atm, both Movie and Shine looks like bigger threats to Flash than JD did in those two games.
|
Awesome write up! Very good analysis. I especially liked your Movie v.s. Zero analysis, particularly game one. I certainly didn't notice some of the details you mentioned.
The audience was going insane in Flash v.s. Jaedong. I only heard that sort of background noises in the China WCG Final for a starcraft game. Pity all of the games ended so short...
|
On January 07 2010 06:50 dukethegold wrote:
Awesome write up! Very good analysis. I especially liked your Movie v.s. Zero analysis, particularly game one. I certainly didn't notice some of the details you mentioned.
The audience was going insane in Flash v.s. Jaedong. I only heard that sort of background noises in the China WCG Final for a starcraft game. Pity all of the games ended so short...
motbob's analysis
all battle reports are done by motbob, everything else is done by me. I don't actually analyze the games ^^
|
Since July is seems to be too old for good now, I'm happy to be rooting for Shine. And once Calm shows up again consistently and Clam stays home ...
Kal and Stork games are still most fun to watch though. Here is hoping Winners League will show us some streaks of them.
|
|
|
What does poor Shine have to do to stop that silly hate??? I am not a fanboy by any means, but the guy showed brilliance in ALL match-ups, beat A and S-class players with manner, and he has a unique style which is fun to watch (read : not yet another mechanical standard unimaginative BORING player). He may lack a bit of charisma, but seriously, I can't understand this hate.
C'mon angry fanboys, let's focus on the skill rather than the victims list!
|
I've always wondered... Do you think the booth girls standing behind the players ever think to themselves, "OMG, Flash is sitting right there. I could just reach out and, like, stroke his hair if I wanted to" while constantly struggling to suppress gleeful squeals?
Mmmyeah, probably not. TL members, on the other hand...
|
omfg. the boothgirls
ahaha. on the other hand. i wish Jaedong put more of an effort vs Flash
but then again . the way flash is playing.. -______-
Poor ZeRO and Stork. They're both playing amazingly
|
|
|
Disappointed in Stork and Zero losing 
|
@ DoctorHelvetica : No, you don't mind spoilers of the first semi final in the quarter finals review ?
|
Excellent write-up.
Shine's shown more variety in his play then he's getting credit for by most people. He's won a lot of straight up games but he certainly is a more micro (t1/2) kinda player. I was pissed when he knocked out Effort, but I have to give him his props for his run so far. I will be rooting for Movie but if shine makes it to the finals I won't be too upset, it's nice seeing the youngsters enter the limelight where they will either "shine" or simply fall back into darkness.
Having said that, Flash is out of control. He is dominating on many different levels and especially is not being beaten in any mind games. 2400, 70 and still up in both leagues.... Excellent time to be a SC fan
Go Movie!
|
On January 07 2010 06:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:50 dukethegold wrote:
Awesome write up! Very good analysis. I especially liked your Movie v.s. Zero analysis, particularly game one. I certainly didn't notice some of the details you mentioned.
The audience was going insane in Flash v.s. Jaedong. I only heard that sort of background noises in the China WCG Final for a starcraft game. Pity all of the games ended so short... motbob's analysis all battle reports are done by motbob, everything else is done by me. I don't actually analyze the games ^^
Well, thx, motbob, thx, doctorhelvetica.
|
Although Jaedong could not match Flash in a straight-up game, his loss to a bunker rush can be partly blamed on his poor response to the attack.
No, not really. He was quite close to destroying that bunker actually 
|
On January 07 2010 08:01 Nouar wrote:@ DoctorHelvetica : No, you don't mind spoilers of the first semi final in the quarter finals review ?
No, it's news. Don't read news about the OSL if you don't want the OSL to be spoiled.
|
On January 07 2010 06:03 ForTheSwarm wrote:Why did Flash and Jaedong have to meet in the quarterfinals... T___________________T
It dosent really matter where they meet, the result would still be the same ^^
Great article DrH
|
On January 07 2010 06:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:50 dukethegold wrote:
Awesome write up! Very good analysis. I especially liked your Movie v.s. Zero analysis, particularly game one. I certainly didn't notice some of the details you mentioned.
The audience was going insane in Flash v.s. Jaedong. I only heard that sort of background noises in the China WCG Final for a starcraft game. Pity all of the games ended so short... motbob's analysis all battle reports are done by motbob, everything else is done by me. I don't actually analyze the games ^^
lol you get that a lot
maybe you should just add it in as a comment or something on the next one haha
|
Shine is a lot like Calm: great ZvZ, outstanding ZvP (what better proof than beating Stork and Bisu), but a horribly shaky ZvT. Shine won't beat Flash in a 20-minute game, but his early to mid game game aggression is quite good, so he has a chance to take one off of Flash (like Calm), maybe two if he goes 4 pools heheh, but I really don't see him winning the finals, now that Flash is close to perfecting TvZ. Movie definitely has the power to beat Shine, after besting Zero in 2 games. But because Shine is aggressive in ZvP, whereas Zero' ZvP is pure macro, it should make for a much more competitive series. The problem with Movie in the finals is that, since beating Leta in the playoffs, his best win vs a terran was Light. And overall, PvT is his worst MU. People say that Flash's weakness is TvP, and it's reasonable (or it least it was) to believe that protoss could still pose a threat and maybe knock him down to mortality again, but Movie is not the protoss for the job. That is unless he goes for the ultimate 3-game winning formula: The Stove, Bulldog, and finally a 2-gate elevator. That'd be sweeeet.
|
On January 07 2010 07:03 imbecile wrote:
Since July is seems to be too old for good now, I'm happy to be rooting for Shine. And once Calm shows up again consistently and Clam stays home ...
Kal and Stork games are still most fun to watch though. Here is hoping Winners League will show us some streaks of them.
I always thought Shine plays like July too - lotsa lair tech to finish the game.
|
51398 Posts
On January 07 2010 06:09 BanZu wrote:Neither do it for me lol
it's like they got the ugliest girls in korea.
well not ugliest, but they tried their hardest to get 'cute' but 'really bad looking cute'
|
The quarterfinal games were pretty good and fun to watch actually. Too bad Jaedong and Stork got eliminated
|
MrHoon
10183 Posts
On January 07 2010 06:00 Chill wrote:She's not suepr cute but that is a bad pic of her.
she was super hot like 1 year ago
then she started gaining weight
|
those are terrible pictures of booth girls
|
|
|
On January 07 2010 06:04 Nal_rAwr wrote:
booth girls are hot lol
+1
|
On January 07 2010 12:42 MrHoon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:00 Chill wrote:On January 07 2010 05:59 Kenpachi wrote:
That first boothgirl is hideous. She's not suepr cute but that is a bad pic of her. she was super hot like 1 year ago then she started gaining weight
got a pic of her one year ago?
|
On January 07 2010 10:41 ThunderGod wrote:
I always thought Shine plays like July too - lotsa lair tech to finish the game.
The name makes me giggle though: "Shine, Pure and Light, the holy pony unicorn trinity of starcraft."
|
You might consider some of this nitpicking, but I thought a lot of this write-up seemed to make things sound like the opposite of what they were:
On January 07 2010 04:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Flash made the standard timing attack while the spire was going up that every Terran facing 3 hatch muta does, but Jaedong was smart enough to have three sunken colonies building when Flash's MnM force moved across the center of the map. Flash was content to prevent Jaedong's third base from going up, instead. This sounds like Flash's game-plan was totally standard, but when Jaedong played well to counter it he had to settle for plan B. On the contrary, I think that Flash's attack was not the standard timing attack; JD's (early) third was his real target all along, and investing in three sunkens in a location that Flash didn't even attack hurt Jaedong rather than helping him.
The problem with the way Flash shut down Jaedong's third base was that his initial army was on the other side of the map when Jaedong's muta/ling army attacked his natural. Flash was OK, though; he had a bunker at his natural and a sizable force in his main and turrets freaking everywhere. Still, having half his army on the other side of the map probably wasn't a good thing. Flash has run into problems in the past when he has felt confident enough in his defense to take chances, with sometimes disastrous results. How can you possibly say that it probably wasn't a good thing after watching the way Flash dismantled JD in this game? The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Flash was never even remotely threatened by Jaedong's attacks on his base this game. It's not even as though you can say that Flash left an opening but got lucky that JD didn't take it: Jaedong's whole game-plan that game was to counter Flash's bases: he tried doing it all game. If Flash's defense had a weakness, don't you think Jaedong would have found it?
Technically, though, Pure spent more minerals to cannon rush the hatchery than it took to build! Pure's core (and thus his tech) was delayed, and, as it happened, Calm's tech was right on schedule. Soon, mutalisks and scourge were flying into Pure's base, killing everything. To me this makes it sound like Pure lost because of the (successful) cannon rush, when all he had to do was place a few extra cannons in his mineral line, and the rush would have put him comfortably ahead.
The hilarious thing is that Shine had a bunch of excess minerals and gas during all this; you'd assume that building mutas isn't that difficult. Why should it be easier or harder than macroing any other unit or combination of units?
In game 3 on HBR, Shine 9 pooled and tried to mine out the minerals above Stork's base. Stork noticed the cheese only at the last second, and was able to get probes in position to defend just in time. After some dancing around, Shine had to leave after doing almost no damage. It's not as if the attempt hurt him badly, though. This sounds like the outcome was neutral with possibly a slight disadvantage to Shine (the lost mining time for the drone that mined out the patch, I suppose). In fact, Stork lost quite a few probe-minutes of mining time when he had to use probes to block: the edge definitely goes to Shine there.
Don't take the criticism the wrong way, please: I definitely appreciate your taking the time to do these lengthy write-ups. I wouldn't have spent so long commenting otherwise.
|
On January 08 2010 02:42 qrs wrote:You might consider some of this nitpicking, but I thought a lot of this write-up seemed to make things sound like the opposite of what they were: Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 04:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Flash made the standard timing attack while the spire was going up that every Terran facing 3 hatch muta does, but Jaedong was smart enough to have three sunken colonies building when Flash's MnM force moved across the center of the map. Flash was content to prevent Jaedong's third base from going up, instead. This sounds like Flash's game-plan was totally standard, but when Jaedong played well to counter it he had to settle for plan B. On the contrary, I think that Flash's attack was not the standard timing attack; JD's (early) third was his real target all along, and investing in three sunkens in a location that Flash didn't even attack hurt Jaedong rather than helping him. Show nested quote +The problem with the way Flash shut down Jaedong's third base was that his initial army was on the other side of the map when Jaedong's muta/ling army attacked his natural. Flash was OK, though; he had a bunker at his natural and a sizable force in his main and turrets freaking everywhere. Still, having half his army on the other side of the map probably wasn't a good thing. Flash has run into problems in the past when he has felt confident enough in his defense to take chances, with sometimes disastrous results. How can you possibly say that it probably wasn't a good thing after watching the way Flash dismantled JD in this game? The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Flash was never even remotely threatened by Jaedong's attacks on his base this game. It's not even as though you can say that Flash left an opening but got lucky that JD didn't take it: Jaedong's whole game-plan that game was to counter Flash's bases: he tried doing it all game. If Flash's defense had a weakness, don't you think Jaedong would have found it? Show nested quote +Technically, though, Pure spent more minerals to cannon rush the hatchery than it took to build! Pure's core (and thus his tech) was delayed, and, as it happened, Calm's tech was right on schedule. Soon, mutalisks and scourge were flying into Pure's base, killing everything. To me this makes it sound like Pure lost because of the (successful) cannon rush, when all he had to do was place a few extra cannons in his mineral line, and the rush would have put him comfortably ahead. Show nested quote +The hilarious thing is that Shine had a bunch of excess minerals and gas during all this; you'd assume that building mutas isn't that difficult. Why should it be easier or harder than macroing any other unit or combination of units? Show nested quote +In game 3 on HBR, Shine 9 pooled and tried to mine out the minerals above Stork's base. Stork noticed the cheese only at the last second, and was able to get probes in position to defend just in time. After some dancing around, Shine had to leave after doing almost no damage. It's not as if the attempt hurt him badly, though. This sounds like the outcome was neutral with possibly a slight disadvantage to Shine (the lost mining time for the drone that mined out the patch, I suppose). In fact, Stork lost quite a few probe-minutes of mining time when he had to use probes to block: the edge definitely goes to Shine there. Don't take the criticism the wrong way, please: I definitely appreciate your taking the time to do these lengthy write-ups. I wouldn't have spent so long commenting otherwise.
agreed,nothing more to say.
|
On January 08 2010 02:42 qrs wrote:You might consider some of this nitpicking, but I thought a lot of this write-up seemed to make things sound like the opposite of what they were: Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 04:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Flash made the standard timing attack while the spire was going up that every Terran facing 3 hatch muta does, but Jaedong was smart enough to have three sunken colonies building when Flash's MnM force moved across the center of the map. Flash was content to prevent Jaedong's third base from going up, instead. This sounds like Flash's game-plan was totally standard, but when Jaedong played well to counter it he had to settle for plan B. On the contrary, I think that Flash's attack was not the standard timing attack; JD's (early) third was his real target all along, and investing in three sunkens in a location that Flash didn't even attack hurt Jaedong rather than helping him. Show nested quote +The problem with the way Flash shut down Jaedong's third base was that his initial army was on the other side of the map when Jaedong's muta/ling army attacked his natural. Flash was OK, though; he had a bunker at his natural and a sizable force in his main and turrets freaking everywhere. Still, having half his army on the other side of the map probably wasn't a good thing. Flash has run into problems in the past when he has felt confident enough in his defense to take chances, with sometimes disastrous results. How can you possibly say that it probably wasn't a good thing after watching the way Flash dismantled JD in this game? The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Flash was never even remotely threatened by Jaedong's attacks on his base this game. It's not even as though you can say that Flash left an opening but got lucky that JD didn't take it: Jaedong's whole game-plan that game was to counter Flash's bases: he tried doing it all game. If Flash's defense had a weakness, don't you think Jaedong would have found it? Show nested quote +Technically, though, Pure spent more minerals to cannon rush the hatchery than it took to build! Pure's core (and thus his tech) was delayed, and, as it happened, Calm's tech was right on schedule. Soon, mutalisks and scourge were flying into Pure's base, killing everything. To me this makes it sound like Pure lost because of the (successful) cannon rush, when all he had to do was place a few extra cannons in his mineral line, and the rush would have put him comfortably ahead. Show nested quote +The hilarious thing is that Shine had a bunch of excess minerals and gas during all this; you'd assume that building mutas isn't that difficult. Why should it be easier or harder than macroing any other unit or combination of units? Show nested quote +In game 3 on HBR, Shine 9 pooled and tried to mine out the minerals above Stork's base. Stork noticed the cheese only at the last second, and was able to get probes in position to defend just in time. After some dancing around, Shine had to leave after doing almost no damage. It's not as if the attempt hurt him badly, though. This sounds like the outcome was neutral with possibly a slight disadvantage to Shine (the lost mining time for the drone that mined out the patch, I suppose). In fact, Stork lost quite a few probe-minutes of mining time when he had to use probes to block: the edge definitely goes to Shine there. Don't take the criticism the wrong way, please: I definitely appreciate your taking the time to do these lengthy write-ups. I wouldn't have spent so long commenting otherwise.
I'll PM this to motbob since I didn't write any of that.
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
In games involving 3 hatch muta, it seems like Terrans always send out an army to force the zerg to make sunkens. In some recent TvZs, Zergs have neglected to put up enough defense, and the Terran simply kills them in those cases. I wish I had specific examples of those types of games, but, sadly, TLPD doesn't sort games by build order
It's almost as if zergs have forgotten how to play 3 hatch muta; for about a year, zergs were using 2 hatch almost exclusively. On the new maps, 3 hatch has been making a comeback. At least, that's how I remember things.
Because Jaedong went 3 hatch, not investing in 3 sunkens would have led to an early death.
Having an army on the other side of the map while muta harassment is starting is not ideal for a Terran. However, in this case, Flash reaped greater benefits from having the army on the other side of the map than he did if the army had been in-base. Can you agree that Flash's army being far away increased the likelihood that Jaedong would do massive damage with mutalisks?
I was not saying that the army being on the other side of the map was a mistake. Clearly, it was 100% the correct decision because the only disadvantage it brought was the possibility of an early death for Flash, which was a possibility which did not materialize. I was only saying that it perhaps wasn't a good thing for Flash in general. Jaedong's attack brought to mind visions of Flash's early exit from the MSL against Kwanro, or his loss to Hyun recently, or his loss to Yarnc's muta all-in a season or two ago.
Yes, Pure lost because he didn't put cannons in his mineral line. I agree (and agreed):
Pure typed out, surely with a resolve in his heart to beef up his base defense in game 2.
Pure should have compensated for his late tech by investing in the muta defense that he was missing because of the late stargate.
Stork already had 4 probes at his nat just sitting there, preparing for a ling runby at the front. Stork brought 3 extra probes up to defend after he scouted the lings, probes which were actually sent to mine before the zergling threat was totally gone. I assume that Stork would have kept the lings at the front of his nat if he had not scouted anything, so we have
- 3 probes not mining for less than a minute
vs
- a drone not mining for as long as it takes to go across the map, mine out the min patch, and come back
Shine did not come out appreciably ahead, if at all, in this case.
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
Oh, I didn't see the macro thing. The thing is that Shine had an incredibly simple strategy: make lots of mutas and kill the Protoss. The fact that his min and gas count was high is something I find pretty funny. Although, on second thought, maybe he felt he had as many mutas as he could micro.
|
On January 08 2010 03:22 motbob wrote:In games involving 3 hatch muta, it seems like Terrans always send out an army to force the zerg to make sunkens. In some recent TvZs, Zergs have neglected to put up enough defense, and the Terran simply kills them in those cases. I wish I had specific examples of those types of games, but, sadly, TLPD doesn't sort games by build order It's almost as if zergs have forgotten how to play 3 hatch muta; for about a year, zergs were using 2 hatch almost exclusively. On the new maps, 3 hatch has been making a comeback. At least, that's how I remember things. Because Jaedong went 3 hatch, not investing in 3 sunkens would have led to an early death. Yes, that would be the standard timing push, but Flash's plan went well beyond that. Usually, the Terran's primary goal is to force the Zerg to place sunken colonies; when that happens, he moves back again. Flash's primary goal was to deny the third here. I don't think "standard timing push" does it justice. Sure, in either case the secondary goal is the same (kill the Zerg if he cuts too many corners on defense) but the primary goal was different.
In light of that, I think that had Jaedong known what Flash was planning, his reaction would have been different as well. I agree that he couldn't have skipped sunkens entirely, but three seems on the cautious side. He probably could have held off any attack with at most two sunken colonies + his army, but he put down an extra sunken to buy some time for a counter (which did nothing).
Put it this way: Jaedong played completely into Flash's hands that game. Do you think that if he could play the game again, he would still put three sunkens there?
Having an army on the other side of the map while muta harassment is starting is not ideal for a Terran. However, in this case, Flash reaped greater benefits from having the army on the other side of the map than he did if the army had been in-base. Can you agree that Flash's army being far away increased the likelihood that Jaedong would do massive damage with mutalisks? Well, given the fact that we know what happened, I think it's fair to say with benefit of hindsight that Flash was totally safe without his army there. I mean, Starcraft is not Risk: it's fairly deterministic. I think that if the exact same scenario is run multiple times (same players, same map, same building placement, timings, etc.) you can expect the same outcome most of the time. Judging from the game, I don't think that Flash ran the risk of an early death at all.
I was not saying that the army being on the other side of the map was a mistake. Clearly, it was 100% the correct decision.... I was only saying that it perhaps wasn't a good thing for Flash in general. Jaedong's attack brought to mind visions of Flash's early exit from the MSL against Kwanro, or his loss to Hyun recently, or his loss to Yarnc's muta all-in a season or two ago. Well, if you were just talking about that sort of aggressive approach in general, I won't argue (although Flash is playing much more dominantly these days than I can ever remember seeing him play, so I don't know if it's fair to make that sort of comparison). When you said that it "probably 'wasn't' a good thing" it sounded like you meant in this game.
Yes, Pure lost because he didn't put cannons in his mineral line. I agree (and agreed): Show nested quote +Pure typed out, surely with a resolve in his heart to beef up his base defense in game 2. Pure should have compensated for his late tech by investing in the muta defense that he was missing because of the late stargate.
Stork already had 4 probes at his nat just sitting there, preparing for a ling runby at the front. Stork brought 3 extra probes up to defend after he scouted the lings, probes which were actually sent to mine before the zergling threat was totally gone. I assume that Stork would have kept the lings at the front of his nat if he had not scouted anything, so we have
- 3 probes not mining for less than a minute
vs
- a drone not mining for as long as it takes to go across the map, mine out the min patch, and come back
Shine did not come out appreciably ahead, if at all, in this case. All right, that's a reasonable point, so I went back and looked at that part of the VOD to actually check the timings. Shine's drone took approximately three minutes to make the round trip (mining included). Stork's mining-time loss was a bit harder to count exactly: the total amount of time that probes were pulled was around a minute, but the number of probes pulled ranged from seven at the beginning to four at the end. Overall I'd say he lost around 5-6 probe-minutes of mining time, still a fair bit more than Shine
If we go with your assumption that he would have kept 4 probes pulled in any case, then Stork's time loss becomes much less, of course, but I don't think that the assumption is a good one. Those initial four probes were blocking as he waited for his second cannon to warp in; once that happened (before Shine's lings got there), I don't think Stork would have kept them pulled; certainly not all four of them.
In any case whomever's reckoning you go with, Stork's mining-time loss was much bigger than the number of pulled probes would indicate. I know I didn't mention this at first--sorry (just refreshed my memory by watching the VOD again)--but besides stopping the probes from mining, Shine denied mining from the mineral patches at the natural entirely: the whole natural for about half a minute, and then half the natural for another half a minute. Since you get diminishing returns as you saturate the mineral patches, that's pretty significant. Finally, Shine also managed to trade a zergling for a probe before he left. So overall, I think Shine gained a fair bit from that skirmish.
|
On January 08 2010 03:28 motbob wrote:
Oh, I didn't see the macro thing. The thing is that Shine had an incredibly simple strategy: make lots of mutas and kill the Protoss. The fact that his min and gas count was high is something I find pretty funny. Although, on second thought, maybe he felt he had as many mutas as he could micro. I was just saying that no matter what the strategy is, it requires units and the units require macro, right? What difference does it make which keys you have to press? But I guess you were saying that with such a simple gameplan, he didn't have the excuse that making strategic decisions distracted him from his macro?
Either way, though, I think the second point that you just brought up--micro--is the telling one. Maybe he did feel that he had as many mutas as he could micro, but more than that: if anything directly conflicts with macro, it is micro, since it demands constant attention. Mutalisks demand a lot more micro than most other units, so if anything, on second thought, I would guess that progamers have the worst macro precisely when they use a pure-mutalisk strategy. It would be interesting to check that...
|
motbob
United States12546 Posts
I absolutely do think that Jaedong would have done the same thing again. What I am saying is that Jaedong had the choice of either putting up the sunken colonies or dying. If he hadn't put up the sunken colonies, Flash would have changed his plans from delaying the third to killing Jaedong's natural.
I concede the point about Shine's attack. I was lax and I did not watch the VOD closely enough. Shine did in fact come out ahead.
On the other points we seem to have reached an agreement.
|
OK, at least where we still disagree we know exactly what we're disagreeing on. Thanks for responding and clarifying.
|
United States17042 Posts
I like shine - he plays well ^.^ great writeup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SilverskY/EVERSL2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/hugecrowd.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/wfa11.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/TheUltimateWeapon/jdflash.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/wfa2223.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/wfa3333.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/zerocrying.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/wdwdwd.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/christmasfun.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/1261740878_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/qfa.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/qfb.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/qfc.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/qfd.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/DoctorHelvetica/everOSLQUARTERS/badassmovie.jpg)
