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On May 18 2009 03:55 Caller wrote:
Guys guys guys GUYS calm the fuck down
Don't you see that mafia is benefiting from all of this? With some of our biggest names fighting over an issue that we don't even know has any meaning, we're just wasting time and causing more chaos.
Here's what I think could be a possibility:
a) elect nemy to pardoner.
b) lynch him immediately tomorrow. If he really is a DT, he would have given us a RC already and would be safe. If he isn't a DT, we kill him and get rid of the pardoner position, thus avoiding any "setbacks" that mafia would benefit from having a scummy pardoner.
I think this would be the safest compromise-we need to agree on one soon, L/MTF vs. Ace/Mynock = not fun...
How about:
we just don't elect nemy period.
Sounds like a smart plan to me.
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L when you quote someone could you please leave in who you're quoting with the message? Sometimes you quote from the middle of a paragraph and it's annoying to go back and figure out where it came from. I don't wanna have to do that again if I decide to re-check all your posts.
I guess the question here is "to nemy or not to nemy." Despite everything that Ace has been saying, I do not think nemy is mafia or traitor. I also think it's better to keep people alive in this game than to get a "better player" into office.
Certainly some people are being more vocal than others right now, but there is a whole host of excellent players that can pick up the slack if the Mafia starts targeting vocal people.
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On May 18 2009 03:57 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 03:55 Caller wrote:
Guys guys guys GUYS calm the fuck down
Don't you see that mafia is benefiting from all of this? With some of our biggest names fighting over an issue that we don't even know has any meaning, we're just wasting time and causing more chaos.
Here's what I think could be a possibility:
a) elect nemy to pardoner.
b) lynch him immediately tomorrow. If he really is a DT, he would have given us a RC already and would be safe. If he isn't a DT, we kill him and get rid of the pardoner position, thus avoiding any "setbacks" that mafia would benefit from having a scummy pardoner.
I think this would be the safest compromise-we need to agree on one soon, L/MTF vs. Ace/Mynock = not fun... How about: we just don't elect nemy period. Sounds like a smart plan to me.
Whatever, as long as we stop the bickering, whenever town does this kind of bullshit it's always a bad thing and it pisses me off because we end up making poor decisions by ourselves and lose the game spectacularly.
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On May 18 2009 03:55 Caller wrote:
Guys guys guys GUYS calm the fuck down
Don't you see that mafia is benefiting from all of this? With some of our biggest names fighting over an issue that we don't even know has any meaning, we're just wasting time and causing more chaos.
Here's what I think could be a possibility:
a) elect nemy to pardoner.
b) lynch him immediately tomorrow. If he really is a DT, he would have given us a RC already and would be safe. If he isn't a DT, we kill him and get rid of the pardoner position, thus avoiding any "setbacks" that mafia would benefit from having a scummy pardoner.
I think this would be the safest compromise-we need to agree on one soon, L/MTF vs. Ace/Mynock = not fun...
Unless I misread the role description, I can only do a c/c on Night 1 not a r/c.
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On May 18 2009 03:48 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 03:41 Tricode wrote:On May 18 2009 03:36 MTF wrote:
I know only two things in relation to this:
1. I logically should let the more experienced players views guide me into voting for Mynock/you.
2. I'm not going to learn anything by letting the more experienced players views guide me.
If it's a mistake, it'll at least be a learning experience and I can look specifically at everything I did wrong. If my central mistake was not listening to everybody telling me I'm wrong, then that'll be what I learn. This game is more about the fun of being back in Mafia for me rather than setting up the game as secure and perfect as possible. I'll admit that openly. If my behavior is a bit less helpful than usual you know why. It's not really about guiding, it's more about who makes the best persuasion and logical point. Right now, ask yourself, what true benefit would we gain by having nemy in the office vs someone that is as good as Ace, Mynock, Ver, and ext. I highly suggest reading the posts and just thinking to yourself which seems to be the better choice. I stand by this, I completely agree with most of what Ace and Mynock is saying. I think what their reasoning is not to have Nemy in office out weighs the reasoning to have Nemy in office. I have read every post in the thread thus far and still stand by my decision. If Nemy is really a DT, then getting him permanent protection is worth it to me. As I don't feel he lied (and freely admit I could be wrong about that) I will vote for him, but only as a puppet to whoever has the other role. I don't think that Nemy would lead as well as anybody else running and so would not look to him to be the public voice. But I do feel that saving him is a benefit worth the risk.
Well what you are doing for nemy would be basically the same idea for the more skilled players.
So for instance, who would you rather have in office Ver or nemy. This would mean 1 would most likely die if not in office. So do you feel if Nemy was in office, that our chances of winning would be greater?
IMO i think it would hurt us. Cause even if we can use Nemy for his DT abilities (If he is not lying) that is a skill once a night.
Where Ver, Mynock, Ace, Cob's and ext. skills (if not even blue) are working at all time. Those skills to me are more valuable right there! An analyzer would be a lot more valuable cause they are working around the clock giving us this information.
Nemy's part as a DT would only come in after these guys probably made a very good persuasive argument. Just as a note I'm not saying trust these guys full heartily I am just using them as examples/place holders, you can switch them with anyone who you think is trust worthy and a skillful analyzer.
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4492 Posts
I'll try to be as reasonable as I can here, and just address the L issue briefly.
L, to make it a bit more clear, the problem both Ace (I think) and I have here, is that you're dealing with some virtual Mafia game's Day 7, while we're actually trying to address the issues of here and now. And your constant paranoia and shouting does get a bit tiresome. I understand your position and your concerns, but I just don't feel they're as valid and of such high priority to deal with them extensively.
That aside, there is one point I agree with you on, and that is the upstart of a Mafia Mayor as quickly as possible. However, out of the leading candidates, that only applies to Ver. I have been wondering myself where Ver could have gone, because he's made virtually no input after his initial campaining and a brief cameo after nemY RCed (granted, his campaigning put him in a comfortable spot, but still...).
If Ver is out there and active, I'd like to hear his take on this matter.
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I am about to go watch the redwings game and i might have shopping to do after.
I'll be back later guys. I don't know how long i'll be gone for. (having family over too to watch this game)
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Guys just mentioning this for well why not.
Why are we voting mynock? I mean period? In every game I have played with him/hosted. He has never come off as someone I would want to follow. Ace plays a similar style (not exact but they have similar ways of dealing with things) that I wouldnt want to follow either, but he has way way way more experience so would be a better candidate over mynock in that sense, but seriously, we want someone to be elected with pretty well no leadership experience(see last game, he was part of malongos fun pals).
The way i see it, Ver is in, showtime, caller and myself although would make good leaders obviously aren't getting the position, so that leaves Ace, mynock, and nemy for the other slot? fuck, give it to ace of the 3, then med protect nemy.
Mynock has yet to seriously prove himself in my eyes to deserve that slot, and again YOU ALL FLAMED ME for wanting pardoner, YOU ALL FLAMED NEMY for wanting pardoner, but its ok for mynock, thats called bullshit.
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On May 18 2009 04:01 Tricode wrote:
Well what you are doing for nemy would be basically the same idea for the more skilled players.
So for instance, who would you rather have in office Ver or nemy. This would mean 1 would most likely die if not in office. So do you feel if Nemy was in office, that our chances of winning would be greater?
IMO i think it would hurt us. Cause even if we can use Nemy for his DT abilities (If he is not lying) that is a skill once a night.
Where Ver, Mynock, Ace, Cob's and ext. skills (if not even blue) are working at all time. Those skills to me are more valuable right there! An analyzer would be a lot more valuable cause they are working around the clock giving us this information.
Nemy's part as a DT would only come in after these guys probably made a very good persuasive argument. Just as a note I'm not saying trust these guys full heartily I am just using them as examples/place holders, you can switch them with anyone who you think is trust worthy and a skillful analyzer.
I agree completely that these people have skills worth saving, but no matter how you look at it, only two players are getting into office. Having one in (I'd say Mynock is looking like the best bet right now) is sufficient to me. I have little doubt that one or more of the major league runners here will get medic protection if they fall out of the race. I cannot say the same for Nemy and I believe having an outed DT in such a secure position is better than choosing just one more of the many qualified people to take the position instead.
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On May 18 2009 03:10 LucasWoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 02:41 Malongo wrote:On May 18 2009 01:12 LucasWoJ wrote:On May 17 2009 17:58 Ace wrote:On May 17 2009 12:43 LucasWoJ wrote:On May 17 2009 11:50 Malongo wrote:On May 17 2009 11:42 HeavOnEarth wrote:
hey ver
how do we know you're not mafia and this isn't just a ploy to make sure he doesn't get votes; so that you're ensured mayor? Obviously nobody can confirm that. However ver has a really good point here, dts roleclaiming first day are not good for the town. Im inclined to believe Nemy is at least traitor, and if he is actually dt... GTFO very poorly played. Note also that dts dont roleclaim publicly ever. In all mafias ive played only sog made it after he got protection. Okay malongo. Calm down. Last game, mafia feasted off of the town's reckless emotions and kept the town in perpetual chaos. You're doing the exact same thing with your post. Actually his post makes sense though - it sums up exactly why nemy needs to be killed. I'll explain this in my big post coming soon. Notice I never said his post makes no sense. ^_^ I was pointing out that its brevity will not and cannot help the town. A series of consecutive two or three sentence posts, or even shorter ones, go a long way in derailing the thread, and allow an individual to escape suspicion (actually, all of the people who posted the couple-liners), even when they're not mafia (look at the last game as evidence for this). Second, if nemy's a retarded dt who played very poorly and one that has nothing to offer, I don't see the reason to "need to kill him." Ostensibly, mafia could keep him alive, if he were the DT, because he's a guaranteed lynch the next day (unless you mean he should be the first day lynch). Granted, I have not read your "big post" yet (I'm responding as I go), so I don't know the reasoning nor can I think of anything besides "we cannot possibly be sure, so it's a good lynch either way since he could be mafia, traitor, or a stupid townie." Im getting more and more inclined to believe you are mafia. Reasons: - Inconsistency: I posted a clue pointing to plexa (Just after the day post). Your response is to directly call people not to believe me without any real reason. Why? i dont know but the problem is not that you try to discredit me publicly, the problem is you try to discredit me publicly AND privately sent me a pm "asking about my thoughts" and trying to discuss the matter. This is a big fishy tactic if you think a player is wrong or doing something bad you dont go next to him trying to get something from him. - Forced activity: Just a quick read on your posts, copy-pasted infundibulum, mimick Ace, and accused me of acting under reckless emotions. If you read my post its plain that I posted more than calm. However the thing here is Are you really active? - Last thing: You put words in my posts that dont belong there: "need to kill him". I never said that. The good thing is: nobody reads my posts besides you, no Lucaswoj? What is the malongo sense telling you? Am I at the 80% tricode was at in the beginning of last game? Again, you're clearly derailing the thread, lol. I'm going to respond to this and make you look even more retarded after the mayor's been elected.
Do it now. You cant, and you know that. The only reason why im not screaming you are mafia directly is because you are stupid enough to make the same move as a townie. As you see your stupidity favors you. Note first that all my posts have been 100% consistant and logic based, second again lets look at your posts in this thread: yes, you are the one making nonsense posts and acting fishy/stupid/copypasting. Note also that you have never posted something logic based about the game EVER. The only thing you have done is try to attack me directly with 0 arguments or any logic. Please post with logic or shut up.
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Obviously determining roles is the aim of the game - but we are still at Mayoral elections. None of us can determine anything right now. Oh shit how did you miss this? You even quoted it but read it wrong. You were talking about Pardoner intentions and usage, a topic which can be examined purely through the rules of the game. If you were referencing my suggestion that we need blues in office ver proved rather dramatically last game that you can sniff out blues very accurately on day 1.
2.) Worried about the election != worried about nemy. I'd love to be in, but hey if Mynock and Ver made it can't say I'd be sad. I'm not that worried about the election. But yea your right - I am worried about nemy which is exactly why I've been making my case against him. So you admit you are worried, which is a complete contradiction of your previous stance. I'm not contradicting myself. You are. Think about it.
3.) circular collusion? lol ok Don King. Ver has been pretty much silent, and only myself and Mynock have really supported each other. Stop trying to take wild guesses. Uh, you yourself have called the group 'the three musketeers' and Ver actually was posting for a bit while you were sleeping. Moreover, the vote record DOES NOT LIE. each of you voted for one other.
I am immune from scrutiny. Because I'm innocent 1. No you aren't. 2. By your own admission we don't know that. Why do you assume people should assume you're innocent? If that's the case everyone should have just PMed you their roles at the start of the game and that would have been a good play.
Frankly, for someone harping on nemy about poor play, you're doing a lot of it yourself.
How would you know the Mafia covet the Pardoner spot unless they themselves stated it? Okay, lets assume pardoner instantly wins the game. I think mafia would go for it. See what I did there? The rules of the game describe the advantages and pitfalls of certain actions. Do you think mafia would NOT want the pardoner spot? Do you think they'd want mayor more?
It's an US statement because playing the game with Ver and Mynock so many times I KNOW none of us play the game like you. It's just that simple - nothing beyond that. Yet by your own admission you've stated that good players will not have a style. Ver's 'afk townie' method this game, for instance, is something he said he wouldn't be doing, and has only performed while previously mafia, yet you believe that you can call their style even if they're not the same allegiance as you?
Bad choice of words, and a telling one.
What full disclosure is there to give? Read my fucking posts. Do you refuse to give the information? Y/N.
As you put it. Go ahead champ. I wouldn't fucking TELL YOU what information I have if i'm trying to cross reference the information I've got with your statements to check for inconsistencies.
I mean, you should know that, you aren't an idiot.
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BC I flamed you? My bad :/
Only reason I didn't mention you was because it didn't seem like you were getting votes x_x
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On May 18 2009 04:13 L wrote:Show nested quote +Obviously determining roles is the aim of the game - but we are still at Mayoral elections. None of us can determine anything right now. Oh shit how did you miss this? You even quoted it but read it wrong. You were talking about Pardoner intentions and usage, a topic which can be examined purely through the rules of the game. If you were referencing my suggestion that we need blues in office ver proved rather dramatically last game that you can sniff out blues very accurately on day 1. Show nested quote +2.) Worried about the election != worried about nemy. I'd love to be in, but hey if Mynock and Ver made it can't say I'd be sad. I'm not that worried about the election. But yea your right - I am worried about nemy which is exactly why I've been making my case against him. So you admit you are worried, which is a complete contradiction of your previous stance. I'm not contradicting myself. You are. Think about it. Show nested quote +3.) circular collusion? lol ok Don King. Ver has been pretty much silent, and only myself and Mynock have really supported each other. Stop trying to take wild guesses. Uh, you yourself have called the group 'the three musketeers' and Ver actually was posting for a bit while you were sleeping. Moreover, the vote record DOES NOT LIE. each of you voted for one other. 1. No you aren't. 2. By your own admission we don't know that. Why do you assume people should assume you're innocent? If that's the case everyone should have just PMed you their roles at the start of the game and that would have been a good play. Frankly, for someone harping on nemy about poor play, you're doing a lot of it yourself. Show nested quote + How would you know the Mafia covet the Pardoner spot unless they themselves stated it? Okay, lets assume pardoner instantly wins the game. I think mafia would go for it. See what I did there? The rules of the game describe the advantages and pitfalls of certain actions. Do you think mafia would NOT want the pardoner spot? Do you think they'd want mayor more? Show nested quote +It's an US statement because playing the game with Ver and Mynock so many times I KNOW none of us play the game like you. It's just that simple - nothing beyond that. Yet by your own admission you've stated that good players will not have a style. Ver's 'afk townie' method this game, for instance, is something he said he wouldn't be doing, and has only performed while previously mafia, yet you believe that you can call their style even if they're not the same allegiance as you? Bad choice of words, and a telling one. Read my fucking posts. Do you refuse to give the information? Y/N. As you put it. Go ahead champ. I wouldn't fucking TELL YOU what information I have if i'm trying to cross reference the information I've got with your statements to check for inconsistencies. I mean, you should know that, you aren't an idiot.
no
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On May 18 2009 04:14 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2009 04:13 L wrote:Obviously determining roles is the aim of the game - but we are still at Mayoral elections. None of us can determine anything right now. Oh shit how did you miss this? You even quoted it but read it wrong. You were talking about Pardoner intentions and usage, a topic which can be examined purely through the rules of the game. If you were referencing my suggestion that we need blues in office ver proved rather dramatically last game that you can sniff out blues very accurately on day 1. 2.) Worried about the election != worried about nemy. I'd love to be in, but hey if Mynock and Ver made it can't say I'd be sad. I'm not that worried about the election. But yea your right - I am worried about nemy which is exactly why I've been making my case against him. So you admit you are worried, which is a complete contradiction of your previous stance. I'm not contradicting myself. You are. Think about it. 3.) circular collusion? lol ok Don King. Ver has been pretty much silent, and only myself and Mynock have really supported each other. Stop trying to take wild guesses. Uh, you yourself have called the group 'the three musketeers' and Ver actually was posting for a bit while you were sleeping. Moreover, the vote record DOES NOT LIE. each of you voted for one other. I am immune from scrutiny. Because I'm innocent 1. No you aren't. 2. By your own admission we don't know that. Why do you assume people should assume you're innocent? If that's the case everyone should have just PMed you their roles at the start of the game and that would have been a good play. Frankly, for someone harping on nemy about poor play, you're doing a lot of it yourself. How would you know the Mafia covet the Pardoner spot unless they themselves stated it? Okay, lets assume pardoner instantly wins the game. I think mafia would go for it. See what I did there? The rules of the game describe the advantages and pitfalls of certain actions. Do you think mafia would NOT want the pardoner spot? Do you think they'd want mayor more? It's an US statement because playing the game with Ver and Mynock so many times I KNOW none of us play the game like you. It's just that simple - nothing beyond that. Yet by your own admission you've stated that good players will not have a style. Ver's 'afk townie' method this game, for instance, is something he said he wouldn't be doing, and has only performed while previously mafia, yet you believe that you can call their style even if they're not the same allegiance as you? Bad choice of words, and a telling one. What full disclosure is there to give? Read my fucking posts. Do you refuse to give the information? Y/N. As you put it. Go ahead champ. I wouldn't fucking TELL YOU what information I have if i'm trying to cross reference the information I've got with your statements to check for inconsistencies. I mean, you should know that, you aren't an idiot. no
lol
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Seriously you guys, we have like
Ace/Mynock/Tricode vs. L/nemy
Malongo vs. LucasWoJ
what the hell is going on people, stop arguing and let's figure out what the hell we're going to do voting wise and after the election. Ad hominem can wait until later!
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4492 Posts
On May 18 2009 04:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Guys just mentioning this for well why not.
Why are we voting mynock? I mean period? In every game I have played with him/hosted. He has never come off as someone I would want to follow. Ace plays a similar style (not exact but they have similar ways of dealing with things) that I wouldnt want to follow either, but he has way way way more experience so would be a better candidate over mynock in that sense, but seriously, we want someone to be elected with pretty well no leadership experience(see last game, he was part of malongos fun pals).
The way i see it, Ver is in, showtime, caller and myself although would make good leaders obviously aren't getting the position, so that leaves Ace, mynock, and nemy for the other slot? fuck, give it to ace of the 3, then med protect nemy.
Mynock has yet to seriously prove himself in my eyes to deserve that slot, and again YOU ALL FLAMED ME for wanting pardoner, YOU ALL FLAMED NEMY for wanting pardoner, but its ok for mynock, thats called bullshit.
I'm the one who said it's perfectly OK to run for Pardoner, and that it's not at all suspicious that you did it either 
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On May 18 2009 04:16 Caller wrote:
Seriously you guys, we have like
Ace/Mynock/Tricode vs. L/nemy
Malongo vs. LucasWoJ
what the hell is going on people, stop arguing and let's figure out what the hell we're going to do voting wise and after the election. Ad hominem can wait until later!
I already outlined the plan yo!
Don't vote for nemy.
See what I did there?
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Ace, i was gone after for wanting pardoner. Nemy and Mynock have made the same claim of role they want.
Nemy wont use it and is being flamed for multiple reasons, wanting pardoner is one of them.
Mynock wants it and not flamed (because of him saying roles were basically same thing?)
We then realize pardoner is damn important and he is overlooked on that. Each person has a playstyle in this game where in two elected positions, their strength is better, mine is always better for a late game elected position in the sense im most effective then.
I have said this before and will again, Behavioural analysist as mayor, and clue analyzer as pardoner OR Major strat planner as mayor, and behavioural analysist as pardoner make for a solid team.
Ace, Ver, and Mynock are all behavioural mainly with minors in planning. I'm not even saying vote me, Just realize if your going to vote for two of those three people, do it at least in the two strongest players, which would be ver and ace. Although I think it would be interesting to see Mynock as a mayor, I certaintly dont want him to have the power of pardoner.
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L when you quote someone could you please leave in who you're quoting with the message? Sometimes you quote from the middle of a paragraph and it's annoying to go back and figure out where it came from. I don't wanna have to do that again if I decide to re-check all your posts.
I honestly don't know how to do that. I've never done it in all my posting on TL as far as I know. If you can tell me how i can pull a quote out with the name and time attached I'd be grateful.
L, to make it a bit more clear, the problem both Ace (I think) and I have here, is that you're dealing with some virtual Mafia game's Day 7 No i'm not. I'm dealing with right now based on what will be dangerous later. I don't even understand how you can morph anything I've been saying for the past 10 pages into that besides for a single post where i wrote out a fairly balanced game with a shitty pardon that resulted in a quick endgame and most likely a mafia victory despite fairly good accuracy by town. Completely for demonstration purposes and not how i think the game must unroll.
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OR....
We could just elect me into a position of power. o.o
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EPT
