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On March 02 2009 04:40 d_so wrote:
well, i guess it's better than nothing. i mean i understand what you're saying qatol, and really, what you're saying is obvious. what i was questioning is the effectiveness of process of elimination in a situation where you don't know the exact count of the roles, or even how many mafia there are. veterans, because of the vet vote, you can confirm. others will be far more difficult.
but even though i dont like this plan, it's better than no plan i guess. i really think this game is going to come down to clue/behavioral analysis though, not heuristic list checking/etc.
Agreed. However, this is something we can do now when there isn't that much data to analyze (especially with the clues). Besides, this isn't really a process of elimination so much as a "let's force the mafia to make a stand on something and hope we get lucky and trap a few." Nobody can be confirmed unless they get rolechecked, cleared through a votecheck, medic saved, or they do something associated with their role that the mafia can't fake.
The strength of heuristic list checking might surprise you. Check out BC's mafia game if you don't believe me (just about every hit except Ver came off a heuristic list check).
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On March 02 2009 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
bloodycobbler said mafia killing power was /2 rounded up so that means mafia has to be 9 or 10 since KP is 5 right?
Incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chuiu has more mafia than 10 but capped KP at 5 to keep the mafia from cleaning us out too quickly.
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On March 02 2009 14:57 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2009 14:49 Qatol wrote:On March 02 2009 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
bloodycobbler said mafia killing power was /2 rounded up so that means mafia has to be 9 or 10 since KP is 5 right? Incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chuiu has more mafia than 10 but capped KP at 5 to keep the mafia from cleaning us out too quickly. "Mafia killing power is like normal Mafia # / 2 rounded up."
Look at TL mafia 2. 20 mafia, KP = mafia/2 rounded up. Max KP 9. BC never said if there is a max or not.
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On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
I don't think that was what people were arguing about. I think they were worried about spreading out their votes so we could get some better votechecks. If I'm wrong, could you point me towards some posts of people defending inertinept?
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On March 03 2009 07:43 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be. remember how we had a lot of people trolling the other game <cough> attackzerg <cough> 
Ah but which game are you talking about? AZ managed to troll several!
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Mafia made a simple error here. There is no role "townie". Everyone who roleclaimed townie was bombed.
Was MasterOfChaos a mafia as well? His hatter didn't check in fast enough.
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Well it was both veteran and sanctuary together that was overpowered.
And yeah, the mafia not realizing that townie isn't a role helped end it. Chuiu, could you post the full list of mafia anyways? We were missing 1 I think. Unless that was fearus?
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On March 03 2009 13:26 LucasWoJ wrote:
And who were the smurfs?
Props to LTT and Dino. Well orchestrated.
Wow I don't even get props for my plan haha. Oh well.
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On March 03 2009 13:30 Chuiu wrote:
Now lets all play nice and pretend like this thread never happened.
btw, 13 vets vs 10 mafia? That seems a bit imbalanced. Just a thought.
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On March 03 2009 13:34 malongo wrote:
I really think the problem here was the early votecount. Secret votes from veterans should come with the final count.
Wouldn't have mattered. We didn't need the extra vet ids. The mass suicide was coordinated today. All we needed were the roleclaims
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On March 03 2009 13:35 Chuiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2009 13:32 Qatol wrote:On March 03 2009 13:30 Chuiu wrote:
Now lets all play nice and pretend like this thread never happened. btw, 12 vets vs 10 mafia? That seems a bit imbalanced. Just a thought. I expected about half of the vets to be voting full time. Meaning only like 6-7 vets would have extra lives and it would only be one extra life. Really the only thing I felt like I made the mistake of was not giving mafia more hits earlier on. If I could have restarted this game earlier Mafia would have 6 hits to start and lose one every other mafia death.
I don't see why the vets would ever want to use their extra vote once they confirmed innocence. It doesn't really have a huge impact on the lynch most of the time.
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On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote:
Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it.
LTT and Dyno are modest here. They helped me sell it. Notice that we emphasize that townies should send in role PMs too. The first one was a mistake by LTT, the rest were on purpose. This wouldn't have worked if they hadn't supported it.
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On March 03 2009 13:37 Chuiu wrote:
I really wanted to make a game work where everyone had a role but I guess I'm going to have to redesign Veteran and Private Eye. Any suggestions?
First of all, I wouldn't give vets an extra vote at all. Or force them to pick an ability at the start of the game and that is the one they have. Also, I would dump sanctuary. It is far too strong. Finally, give the mafia an ability they can use day 1 if you're going to give one to the town. This wouldn't have worked if they could backlash or snakeskin
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On March 03 2009 13:40 LucasWoJ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote:
Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it. Whoops, my bad Qatol, haha. Congrats for that. Someone pointed it out earlier in the thread (zeks, perhaps?), but I didn't make too much of it. Mafia played horribly this game.
We actually sent him a PM about that (but didn't ask him to take it down). Bockit also noticed and PMed LTT asking about it.
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On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote:
I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
Btw, you were caught anyways. You went into the TL IRC channel and posted "yo mafia". LTT was sitting there.
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On March 03 2009 13:51 Chuiu wrote:Also, no one got Day 1 clues right.
Were those things even clues? We were guessing on them while having a list of most of the mafia and still couldn't get them. Could you post the clues please?
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On March 03 2009 13:53 Chuiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2009 13:52 Ace wrote:On March 03 2009 13:38 JeeJee wrote:On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote:
50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke. the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over. Invincibility = bad (unless it's mayor/pardoner). Invincibility is only for one night and only for one set of roles. It can't be used on the same roles every night and can only be used 3 nights total. Its not very overpowering at all especially when mafia can get a double kill night.
We were talking about this too. With only 5 KP a double kill night simply isn't that strong. Please consider having more like 15 mafia in the next game. I think that was the biggest problem. Mafia just didn't have enough people. Well maybe second biggest behind easy vet circle.
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On March 03 2009 13:55 Chuiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2009 13:53 Trezeguet23 wrote:On March 03 2009 13:49 Chuiu wrote:On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote:
I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming? I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise. There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile. Yeah I agree mafia kill count was too low for this game. Besides Veteran I feel that was the biggest mistake.
Any time you give the town a way of organizing and the sheer amount of kill power they had (9 hatters was almost as scary as 13 veterans) things just won't end up well.
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yeah no way were we getting those haha
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On March 03 2009 14:28 Fishball wrote:OMFG you guys fucking suck I JUST had the free time, since I was busy for the past 4 days, to read the entire thread, starting at page 7, which took me like an hour to catch up... Then BAM, the game ends. I was the last veteran... Boooo
We guessed you were townie but we had no idea what role you had. We decided not to bother bombing you because you are you haha.
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EPT
