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Trfel
7015 Posts
I still think he is lynchbait though, regardless of the "facts"  Nothing wrong with him at all, just the way he communicates makes it really easy to find logical inconsistencies. There was one game in particular I remember being mafia and I got him lynched, every single one of his posts gave me more and more ammunition. The poor guy just couldn't make a post that I couldn't make look really bad. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 10:10 rsoultin wrote: This is true, at least that they are together.just because my husband (artanis) mentioned this pre-game, i want to confirm, you and viva are a thing? is that why you try to always read him first? and if so, why would you assume others would? or is that not what you were trying to say when you entered the thread Also, getting advice from Artanis? Seems helpful | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Unless you want to lynch AlphaZero today, in which case feel free to explain, but currently I think that is very unlikely to happen. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I don't really think any other lynch makes sense right now though? I'm conflicted/unsure about Oatsmaster, a lot of people think he is town though. I'm hesitant to lynch scott31337. I think die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, sandroba, marvellosity, and Vivax would benefit from more time. Mocsta too, but I think it's a little easier to read him. It's a combination of Kelsi3r looking really suspicious and no one else looking like a sensible lynch target. Lynching scott31337 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world I guesssss but it would be very far from ideal imo. What part do you want me to explain? People haven't talked about suspecting AlphaZero very much so far. Most of what people have shared is that they are inclined to think they are town, tbh. So I think it's pretty ambitious to expect people's minds to change that dramatically, that quickly. Like, it takes time for discussion to happen and for people to share ideas. Also, it's typical to lynch a less active/involved player on Day 1, it's not a rule, it's just much more common. AlphaZero doesn't fit that mold. Those things combined make me think that realistically, AlphaZero is extremely unlikely to be lynched today, so with the deadline coming up, I'd rather start to focus on people who are more realistic targets. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 10:55 rsoultin wrote: I think it depends on how much time there is until the lynch, imo when it gets closer to the lynch it's helpful to focus a bit. Night 1 I'd be more than happy to talk about anything and everything.tbf this is largely how i make reads on people, discussing the entire game with others in thread rather than just focusing on today's lynch? but point taken. don't want to make the thread completely unreadable On June 08 2024 10:56 Oatsmaster wrote: I don't have much to discuss about AlphaZero. I kinda think they are town but it's a weak read. I generally don't like to talk about townreads, especially not weak ones. How have I been waffling on AlphaZero, of all people, since I haven't said anything about them?Make your stance on alphazeros alignment please the waffle is tiresome On June 08 2024 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote: The issue is that your playstyle, seemingly regardless of alignment, seems scummy to me. This makes it hard to figure out if you are town or mafia, because you always seem scummy. I'm trying to work on it but unfortunately I can't magically get better.Why are you conflicted about me? You’ve said this a couple times but haven’t expanded with posts or reasoning Honestly I don't know. You're going to have to live with that, I am not going to make something up. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Yes I could say reasons why you could be mafia but how is that productive if I don't know if it makes you mafia? Like why would I do that? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 11:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Can you stop misinterpreting my posts? I'm sorry I'm trying to play a board game with some friends and don't have a ton of patience for dealing with this :/? Why are you stopping discussion of someone you don’t have a solid read on then? Because we can determine if those reasons are good enough? Are you seriously asking why it’s good to explain a read? I think it is very common to avoid aimless discussions about people who aren't realistic lynch targets when the deadline is approaching. Like I said, if you have actual reasons or arguments, by all means go ahead. Otherwise, let's focus on the upcoming deadline. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far. Oatsmaster On June 08 2024 00:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Vivax mafia On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote: I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote: ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote: These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself.Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon. The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax. 1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post) 2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up 3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?) 4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post: On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote: Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all.AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. 1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming. 2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious. 3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games. 4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated. So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless. You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 14:15 AlphaZero wrote: Who is suspicious of you? Mocsta, rsoultin, and die_meatbaby right? Am I missing anyone? I guess mayyyybe scott31337? Four votes at most, hardly an easy mislynch.Am I an easy mislynch here? How refreshing. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 14:32 AlphaZero wrote: I'm not interested. I have no reason to suspect you currently. I mean, if someone has some really amazing reasons I'd be more interested, but until then, no. So far I haven't seen any substantial reasons given, just a lot of vague suspicions that have little to no basis.I thought you were somewhat interested. I just don’t have the time or inclination to really defend myself so we will see I guess. I hate to be aggressive, but Oatsmaster literally asked for it, so here goes: Why are we townreading Oatsmaster again? Seriously, look at his filter and look for actual contribution, unless I'm really missing something, all he has as this push on Vivax and his reasons are pretty awful. He's plenty active and belligerent, but I don't see him being interested in finding mafia or figuring things out or actually contributing. Why is this towny? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
That's fair though, I do recall that post by AlphaZero casting a ton of doubt on anyone having a strong read on Kelsi3r being weird. In fact, I think most everyone besides himself has a strong opinion on Kelsi3r, one way or another? I'd forgotten about this, that's a very good point. I was reading rsoultin's filter out of boredom, I'll try and look at AlphaZero's play through this lens in a bit and see if it fits. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm curious about your push on scott31337. I get where you're coming from, but in my experience with scott31337, the dude is incredibly lynchable at all times. I'm not sure if it's possible for him to make a post that doesn't have something scummy in it. Like I said, there was a game a while ago where I was mafia and I was pushing him and whenever he posted to defend himself, I'd just immediately quote that post and use it against him. Does this perspective have any bearing on your push, and if not, how are you differentiating the two? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
In retrospect I'm not actually that happy with rsoultin's read transition from here to here. I mean she does explain it and Kelsi3r did post during that time so I guess I'm very likely being paranoid about nothing but even so it might be worth remembering. On June 08 2024 14:42 Mocsta wrote: Time to see if this holds up. I've been thinking about it while finishing the filter dive on rsoultin, as fun as it would be if this characterization is correct, my guess is that it isn't because there has been resistance so it just clouds discussion when a few people were yet to post i.e. put into monitor basket. I would summarise AZ style of play as pulling up inconsistencies and letting others draw conclusions. it is the missing conclusion that i refer to as withhold.. im not talking about withholding reads, those have been aired yet are all over the place and everything is contingent on something else which i associate as a scum thing to do. scott, trfel, Like one thing I cannot get past is that AZ is defending Kelsier as if he is a town-read, yet calls him "very null" to the point that anyone attacking is super sus.. I just struggle to see town being this hedged. Literally the only thing about kelsier in his filter is:  For some things AlphaZero has shared his thoughts/suspicions/insights and not pursued them a ton, but there are other things where he definitely has pursued it pretty hard. It's natural to assume that the latter variety, where he pushed his thoughts, are the ones that he's more passionate about. Which makes a lot of sense tbh. Specifically, see the stubbornness about the scott31337 push. I guess I'm a little hesitant to criticize AlphaZero for this because this description: I would summarise AZ style of play as pulling up inconsistencies and letting others draw conclusions. is kinda my playstyle? At least, it was for a long time and still kinda is now? So it's hard for me to say it's clearly scummy.it is the missing conclusion that i refer to as withhold.. List of AlphaZero's posts with interesting/meaningful thoughts + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2024 12:12 AlphaZero wrote: Vivax looks town. On June 07 2024 15:47 AlphaZero wrote: I agree with this analysis, but I don't see how this can co-exist with Trfel finding Vivax's vibe read on oats as weird. To me, this is a protracted version of the same read. I'm interested to see what you think of Vivax's read now trfel. On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote: I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all. I find his entrance to be forced, like he is trying too hard to find something scummy. I am interested in why truffles thinks he doesn't want to lynch mocsta today? Is it because Mocsta sheeped your push? On June 07 2024 21:37 AlphaZero wrote: I think Oats is town based on his recent posts. On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote: Oats and Sandro are top town. Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him. And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia… I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me. I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy. Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured, Won’t lynch Marv today. Rso has felt town by vibe. Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null. Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means. Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null. Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. On June 08 2024 07:31 AlphaZero wrote: All that being said. Scott’s open is the scummiest thing to happen all game, and his later posting doesn’t really turn that around. On June 08 2024 07:46 AlphaZero wrote: Sandros catchup posting resonated with me. He seemed to be just comfortable putting things out there. Vivax im not sure anyone should how anyone could call him town right now. He looked ok initially. Recently pretty meh. On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote: I’ll lynch vivax with you oats. Vote:vivax On June 08 2024 08:49 AlphaZero wrote: Scott not considering the game state with my vivax read and what it means about my alignment is the second scummiest thing that happened this game. The first being Scott’s opening posts. Town circle activate! So there's kind of a lot there, but lemme try and summarize it: scott31337 is suspicious because of the opening thing with masons/whisperers and because he attacked AlphaZero for switching votes from Vivax to himself Vivax was town early on, later not so towny and voted for him Mocsta was suspicious as of post #271 but less so as of #479. See Mocsta's filter (page 2) to see Mocsta's posts in this range, in all honesty I'm not seeing the change in Mocsta's play that prompted this read change. Maybe just taking a step back from the argument would warrant this change in perspective, but idk. Weird thougths on me (Trfel) Null read on Kelsi3r A few townreads on other people (Oatsmaster, sandroba, rsoultin) Yeah, honestly I'm just not sold about Mocsta's characterization of AlphaZero's play yet. AlphaZero has been quite passionate about his scumread of scott31337, and he's also shown reasonable suspicion of Vivax and Mocsta at different points. However, I do think that sticking with a strong null read on Kelsi3r is quite interesting. I don't mind so much if AlphaZero has a null read on Kelsi3r, but it's hard for me to understand how someone could have such a big ego that if they can't get a read on someone, no one else can either. I know some people have massive egos but that's next level. I could maybe look into the weird things AlphaZero has said about me but I'm not convinced it ends up anywhere substantial. However, I am interested in the read switch on Mocsta, AlphaZero went from here: On June 07 2024 23:01 AlphaZero wrote: to here:I think there is a very good chance mocsta is mafia. There is a lot of bluster and attacking players which on the surface could look town aligned , but it doesn’t seem like he is genuinely trying to determine alignments to me. On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote: And looking at Mocsta's posts in the meantime, it's very hard for me to understand this change. It's possible AlphaZero just changed his perspective, but he said it was a change in Mocsta's posts, so idk.Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means. Don't think that makes AlphaZero mafia yet, but at least those are two reasons, even if not very strong. Side note, AlphaZero, could you please explain your townread on Oatsmaster? I've read his filter and summarized it (see here), you have a strong townread on Oatsmaster and I'm having a hard time understanding it. Where is the townread coming from? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 08 2024 15:35 Mocsta wrote: to be confirmed = tbc On June 08 2024 02:30 rsoultin wrote: also tbc truffle looks good now <3 doesn't mean i don't want credit pfft marv i like that seems like the easiest read ever but whatevs, the pounce on sandy gave my good vibes even if he later got the dumbs and backed off over a kelsier townread On June 08 2024 10:21 rsoultin wrote: But that doesn't make sense lol same regarding rayn well az reminds me of another player whose scum game consists of buddying top townies (and by this i mean the 'good players' the community here generally listens to) and crawling so far up their asses he goes under the radar. idk that this is the same player but the interchange with marv is giving me those vibes. tbc marv is good, but i guess i mean the people who have the most pull if people are reading them town now i don't know that az's the same person or not so that's not reason enough to scumread him at all. but his view of the game also isn't aligning with mine on several fronts so those two things together earns him the rayn tier of i don't fucking know. i'm hoping if he's town that'll become clear in further discussion lol >< | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Going to bed now, I'll be on my phone until I get tired, I have no idea how long that will take. However when I get tired I tend to get tired very quickly and thus won't be able to say that I am falling asleep, so if I stop posting, I most likely fell asleep. I'll be out for most of tomorrow, if you guys post a ton or have super deep analysis I'll likely fall behind until I can catch up in the evening (I'm not very good at playing mafia on my phone). Currently want to lynch Kelsi3r, confused and curious about scott31337 and Oatsmaster, a little intrigued by AlphaZero and Alakaslam. Guess I can read through die_meatbaby's filter now that she's been around a bit. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Interesting about AlphaZero/BetaOne, sorry for misinterpreting that. I'll keep thinking about it. I like how you actually looked at his filter and have reasons, that's very helpful. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Like I put in the effort to explain where I am coming from, I'd really appreciate a bit of help on this one. How should I be approaching this, if my current approach isn't good? | ||
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