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On December 12 2023 02:47 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 01:56 marvellosity wrote:
Also, re: sandro.
He asked me to engage, and gave me some bleh nonsense about not liking Trfel’s vote on him, but could not come up with a way he would expect Trfel to vote as a townie.
In his filter though, he does quote a post from Trfel and goes to quite some length to explain how townie a post it is.
I don’t believe he goes from the first post explaining to why Trfel is likely town, to a complete nothing post shovelling suspicion on Trfel.
I would provide the 2 quotes but as usual these days I am not in a laptop so it’s too difficult. But if you’re reading this dear town, please do take a look and see what I mean. I quoted a post I would 100% expect you to agree on and find it suspicious. Nobody else had mentioned that post and I was expecting you to have some commentary, but instead you just dismissed it and asked me something irrelevant like what I think Trfle would post like if he was a towny voting. I dunno, like something I read and don't think sounds forced? I'm not comparing it to an imaginary trfel post, just reading it along with his filter and feeling it's off. Not sure why you would ask me to imagine a townie post instead of reflecting on the actual post itself.
Such a fire post, maybe one I'd be inclined to town read sandro on. Annoyingly followed up by a self-critical backing off. Maybe wary that a town marv could snap back at any second?
On December 12 2023 02:57 sandroba wrote:
Or maybe I just suck while thinking I'm onto something and expecting you feel the same but actually you are just right and good while I'm bad? A harder pill to swallow but I guess could be true
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On December 12 2023 19:27 Holyflare wrote:
If trfel is mafia is the first quote a slip? I just don't get it. "No way DP would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel".
Rayn's point was that DP and Sandroba probably weren't mafia together so how does "favour a partner" apply to this? Is it that he thought trfel was mafia at this point? That rayn thought trfel was mafia?
Either a slip or not something I think sandro would say about an actual mafia partner (trfel).
Can you quote this so I can try parse what you’re saying?
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On December 12 2023 20:04 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 02:47 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 01:56 marvellosity wrote:
Also, re: sandro.
He asked me to engage, and gave me some bleh nonsense about not liking Trfel’s vote on him, but could not come up with a way he would expect Trfel to vote as a townie.
In his filter though, he does quote a post from Trfel and goes to quite some length to explain how townie a post it is.
I don’t believe he goes from the first post explaining to why Trfel is likely town, to a complete nothing post shovelling suspicion on Trfel.
I would provide the 2 quotes but as usual these days I am not in a laptop so it’s too difficult. But if you’re reading this dear town, please do take a look and see what I mean. I quoted a post I would 100% expect you to agree on and find it suspicious. Nobody else had mentioned that post and I was expecting you to have some commentary, but instead you just dismissed it and asked me something irrelevant like what I think Trfle would post like if he was a towny voting. I dunno, like something I read and don't think sounds forced? I'm not comparing it to an imaginary trfel post, just reading it along with his filter and feeling it's off. Not sure why you would ask me to imagine a townie post instead of reflecting on the actual post itself. Such a fire post, maybe one I'd be inclined to town read sandro on. Annoyingly followed up by a self-critical backing off. Maybe wary that a town marv could snap back at any second? Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 02:57 sandroba wrote:
Or maybe I just suck while thinking I'm onto something and expecting you feel the same but actually you are just right and good while I'm bad? A harder pill to swallow but I guess could be true
I find it really hard, knowing what I do of sandro, to believe he backs off so submissively as town.
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Can you actually explain this Trfel partner slip thing to me like I’m 5?
With quotes if possible?
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On December 12 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
Can you actually explain this Trfel partner slip thing to me like I’m 5?
With quotes if possible?
I did originally write a whole wall when I was engaging sandro about all the possibilities but I felt confused myself about all the different scenarios so bear with me.
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On December 12 2023 20:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 20:13 marvellosity wrote:
Can you actually explain this Trfel partner slip thing to me like I’m 5?
With quotes if possible? I did originally write a whole wall when I was engaging sandro about all the possibilities but I felt confused myself about all the different scenarios so bear with me.
Thank you. I did try to go back to understand what you were saying but I failed. But I really want to understand as it might be really important
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So this is the initial sandro observation about rayn being townie. It's notable because it's one of his first choices on return to mention and IMO I thought he was using it as a defence to be like "Oh, Rayn's thought process is townie because I (Sandro) am town and DP would never go after his partner Trfel like that!"
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2023 04:34 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:24 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? Is that supposed to change something? Idk, i would think Palmar would hide under "no play during weekends" esp since most of the players should know that, rather than post basically anything other than "it's weekend bye!"  The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion. Oh i also think DP and sandroba are not both mafia, now that i remember. I think this is a towny observation from rayn, no way dp would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel.
I didn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt about this because it's so ambiguously worded there are several interpretations that you can read into.
Now that I read it back, I think he probably meant that Rayn's point is good because there's no way a mafia DP would hard defend a mafia Sandroba like that by hard tunnelling trfel (presumably a townie) so there's less credence to it being a slip here and I've read too much into it.
The point is really bad because mafia can quite easily do something like that, especially DP because that's his forte, but I think it probably paints rayn and DP in a good light still. Especially with the follow up where sandro says he could be mafia and dp can be town in this scenario (???)
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2023 05:11 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 04:59 Holyflare wrote:Also: On December 11 2023 04:34 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 01:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:24 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2023 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 10 2023 23:03 marvellosity wrote:
What I’m saying is his posting so far is pretty normal. He doesn’t have to be town of course but it’s well within normal tolerance.
Do you also remember he doesn't play during the weekends and does basically the minimum amount to survive as mafia? Is that supposed to change something? Idk, i would think Palmar would hide under "no play during weekends" esp since most of the players should know that, rather than post basically anything other than "it's weekend bye!" The stuff he said is also okay. It's not that i even think Vivax is mafia, probably opposite tbh, but his read on Palmar is based on wrong premises imo, if Palmar and sandroba would be both mafia, that would definitely not be something Palmar does in my opinion. Oh i also think DP and sandroba are not both mafia, now that i remember. I think this is a towny observation from rayn, no way dp would take such a one-sided approach favoring a partner in the exchange between me and trfel. Of all the posts in the thread I also take umbrage with the fact that you've essentially taken this one as a pseudo way of defending yourself. I also would like you to elaborate on this some more because there are several interpretations of what this can actually mean and it's vague enough that you can use it to imply many things. That's not a defense of me, as I could be mafia and DP town in this scenario. The fact that rayn's brain read that exchange and thought "No way 2 mafia would do that as partners" I think demonstrates a towny trying to solve the game.
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In my head it was either:
1) No way DP would favour his mafia partner Trfel in this scenario over me!
2) No way DP would favour his mafia partner me in this scenario by attacking a townie trfel so hard!
3) No way DP would favour his mafia partner me in this scenario by attacking mafia partner trfel so hard!
2 and 3 being slips and 1 being some egregious attempt at trying to get town credit from rayn's thought process
how he defaulted to:
4) No way town DP would tunnel unknown trfel over mafia me!
as a way to justify this situation I'll never know. It prescribes way too much intent into what DP could or would do as mafia and sandro seems annoyed that I did that to him earlier so I feel like he wouldn't so much do that to DP this erroneously either.
At some point I think I'm just having a conversation with myself in these posts but I guess if sandro is mafia I've just reachef the conclusion that it doesn't mean anything for trfel or DP based on these posts but looks good for rayn in general potentially.
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I read it as 2) above, but I thought your post above that one explained why it wasn’t a slip, which I believe, but you seem to be saying again that it is?
I think I agree with your final conclusion though
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Honestly for me its a bit of a wash as I don’t think that’s what makes sandro mafia (or town)
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Because while I agree with you that the post isn’t necessarily right, you are a very smart person, Hf, and you know DP a lot better than sandro. And I don’t think it’s an outrageous stand alone thought, to assume a mafia partner wouldn’t ride to a buddy’s defence so hard and so early.
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On December 12 2023 20:47 marvellosity wrote:
I read it as 2) above, but I thought your post above that one explained why it wasn’t a slip, which I believe, but you seem to be saying again that it is?
I think I agree with your final conclusion though
I read it as 2 as well.
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The reason its a slip is because he shouldn't really be drawing a conclusion about my alignment from that post from rayn.
The natural thought is "well I know I am town so therefore rayn is correct, we can't be mafia together."
The fact that he says that rayn is right and I am town based on that Idea is fucking weird.
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On December 12 2023 20:49 marvellosity wrote:
Honestly for me its a bit of a wash as I don’t think that’s what makes sandro mafia (or town)
Not so much as a slip as outright calling himself mafia but more a lapse in thought process where you forget you're supposed to be pretending you're town so go out and justify other people's reasoning as being good by forgetting what your alignment is supposed to be.
I agree, there's much better points to go for. I think he has had no conclusive push this game. His scum reads and middling reads are really bad and lazy. Somehow I went from being a potential mafia read to neutral despite me basically posting nothing since he called me suspicious.
I don't believe his vivax or trfel progressions and I don't think he would be this meek as a town that thought he caught a mafia marv. Especially so given that he shares that sentiment with Palmar and it would be an easy avenue to bolster Palmar's ego for.
Somehow trfel drops to one of his top 3 scum reads because of one post that "really sets off alarms"
On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore.
but sandroba scum reads vivax too so it's a weird avenue of thought to go down
I do agree with sandro though (potential for a bus situation) that the trfel post in particular is really lazy and just phoning it in so maybe need to look at trfel a bit more
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On December 12 2023 20:56 DarthPunk wrote:
The reason its a slip is because he shouldn't really be drawing a conclusion about my alignment from that post from rayn.
The natural thought is "well I know I am town so therefore rayn is correct, we can't be mafia together."
The fact that he says that rayn is right and I am town based on that Idea is fucking weird.
Because if sandro is town then he can’t come to the conclusion about protecting a mafia buddy? Is that the idea here?
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On December 12 2023 20:56 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 20:49 marvellosity wrote:
Honestly for me its a bit of a wash as I don’t think that’s what makes sandro mafia (or town) Not so much as a slip as outright calling himself mafia but more a lapse in thought process where you forget you're supposed to be pretending you're town so go out and justify other people's reasoning as being good by forgetting what your alignment is supposed to be. I agree, there's much better points to go for. I think he has had no conclusive push this game. His scum reads and middling reads are really bad and lazy. Somehow I went from being a potential mafia read to neutral despite me basically posting nothing since he called me suspicious. I don't believe his vivax or trfel progressions and I don't think he would be this meek as a town that thought he caught a mafia marv. Especially so given that he shares that sentiment with Palmar and it would be an easy avenue to bolster Palmar's ego for. Somehow trfel drops to one of his top 3 scum reads because of one post that "really sets off alarms" Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. but sandroba scum reads vivax too so it's a weird avenue of thought to go down I do agree with sandro though (potential for a bus situation) that the trfel post in particular is really lazy and just phoning it in so maybe need to look at trfel a bit more
Agree it’s worth looking into.
It’s quite the play for Trfel to savage sandro so early in the game though. It’s possible, but it requires organisation or a level of ‘go it alone’ that I’m not sure Trfel is likely to do?
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On December 12 2023 20:56 DarthPunk wrote:
The reason its a slip is because he shouldn't really be drawing a conclusion about my alignment from that post from rayn.
The natural thought is "well I know I am town so therefore rayn is correct, we can't be mafia together."
The fact that he says that rayn is right and I am town based on that Idea is fucking weird.
I don't think he draws a conclusion on your alignment tbh, just one on rayn's thought process that it doesn't matter if you are town or mafia, he just thinks that rayn makes a good conclusion that you aren't paired. Not necessarily that either or both are mafia.
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Yeah im tired and read into it to much.
Ignore me.
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I have really enjoyed this, though
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EPT
