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On November 25 2020 07:31 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
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I dont really get what you are saying about Grack? I think Grack is a tricky and a smart player but i dont really think he is trying to make anything out of nothing here? Regarding Grack, it is possible that I am making something of nothing. All early-game cases have a good amount of guesswork. This game especially - there seems to be no player that is actively pushing the pace of the game along, and we frankly don't have much to go on. Anywho, my suspicions on Grack are something that I see reasonably often come from mafia. I wouldn't call my "confidence interval" on it super high (there's only so much accuracy to have in a 10-page game), but it's really the best I can go on at this point. With Grack, his play can be summed up as such: 1) A fairly substanceless mayoral "campaign"; 2) An interaction with Trfel in which he seems to soft-call Trfel mafia without directly saying so: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/565699-a-mostly-normal-game-of-mafia?page=9#175 (for example, him saying that Trfel wants to "dig himself out of a hole" is very difficult to construct as anything other than throwing suspicion at him) 3) A town-read on me with some... questionable logic... ... and that's the best I can go on at this point with 10 pages. And I'd rather talk about and attempt to find reasons that people are mafia rather than PoE my way into lynching lurkers. We may very will lynch a lurker, but I do not believe that is a good foundation of discussion.
I can't speak for Grack but i can say this:
1) I dont think this means anything since grack tends to be -- regardless of alignment -- a jokey person in mafia games.
2) He actually answered you on this:
On November 25 2020 01:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 00:34 Hapahauli wrote:Trfel and Slam strike me as very town on a second readthrough. Slam is noticeably posting "lighter" and "happier". I wasn't really convinced with the read, but having looked through some previous scumgames of his this morning, my confidence interval is pretty high on his alignment. Trfel's posting is also dead-on with his previous town games. His entrance shows he is reading the thread. He also has this "peculiar" way of making his reads as town, which I will elaborate on if I feel he is in danger of getting lynched. I think he has also appropriately pinged Grack's posts, as well as Rayn's relative passivity, which shows a degree of careful reading in the early game Grack's entrance to the game is a lot of bravado and not a lot of substance. The mayoral "campaign" can be interpreted as anything. His interaction with Trfel strikes me as scummy, because he spends time implying that Trfel is mafia without actually concretely saying anything. On November 24 2020 14:11 Grackaroni wrote:On November 24 2020 14:06 Trfel wrote:
Hm.
Because to me, it seems very out of place. No one asked you for any reads or what you thought about early game reads. It doesn't read like you're defending Hapahauli or his statement, the only relation is that Hapahauli's post is quoted. And to top it off, you threw in a wishy-washy backsies clause at the end.
And while me and my microscopic vocabulary had to look up the definition of commiseration, I don't really see how it fits that either, or why that would even be needed here.
One point I could forgive, but all together it seems like quite a strange post to me. Hapa's statement is fine with me. I understand not being a player who jumps the gun with early conclusions. I'm not sure what you're on about with your backsies clause I was just relating my own experience lol. To be honest I think you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole from how you were percieved earlier. On November 24 2020 14:30 Grackaroni wrote:On November 24 2020 14:23 Trfel wrote:On November 24 2020 14:11 Grackaroni wrote:On November 24 2020 14:06 Trfel wrote:
Hm.
Because to me, it seems very out of place. No one asked you for any reads or what you thought about early game reads. It doesn't read like you're defending Hapahauli or his statement, the only relation is that Hapahauli's post is quoted. And to top it off, you threw in a wishy-washy backsies clause at the end.
And while me and my microscopic vocabulary had to look up the definition of commiseration, I don't really see how it fits that either, or why that would even be needed here.
One point I could forgive, but all together it seems like quite a strange post to me. Hapa's statement is fine with me. I understand not being a player who jumps the gun with early conclusions. I'm not sure what you're on about with your backsies clause I was just relating my own experience lol. To be honest I think you're trying to dig yourself out of a hole from how you were percieved earlier. What hole? (rhetorical) And sure, I get that you're fine with Hapahauli's statement, but it doesn't really warrant defending, and even if it did that would be a really weird way of doing it. Thus, your post was quite pointless. A pointless post doesn't guarantee someone to be mafia, but I'm happy to jump on it for now. I don't think I need anything else from you at the moment, I'll see how you play and continue to evaluate. Rayn called out one of your posts and Slam says you shat on the carpet and all of a sudden you're yelling about my backsies and acting tough.I don't really care about Hapa's post one way or another. If he had said that pre-game I would have responded the same. Vivax's entrance is uninspiring and scummy, since he makes 6 pointless posts about reads that he's not read enough of the thread to be confident on. The reason is that I didn't like the way he was construing/attacking my post. To me it seemed like he just decided he needed someone to attack at that moment and that I'd make a good target. I guess I view the game differently since I make lots of posts without any bearing to reads on the game or posts that are outright shitposts. I'd be curious in what you mean by him appropriately pinging my post though. You feel that what I said had no relation to what you said and think I was being too wishy-washy by not saying that I'd never post a read early on?
At least i thought you were fine with the answer since you didnt push the matter further. Okay, maybe you do now. I was fine with the answer though.
3) I agree that can be mafia talking.
I dont want to lynch some poe dude. Which is why i am trying to get shockeyy who is here atm to talk more.
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Wait it is actually weird. I have missed something.
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Not because of what you pointed out though :D
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No nevermind, i thought he was talking about Trfel instead of Jock in his convo with Vivax...
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I thought i could talk with someone at this hour. 
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On November 25 2020 06:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 00:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Trfel's posting is also dead-on with his previous town games. Which mafia games of his did you read to reach this conclusion?
I'd like to up this.
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On November 25 2020 08:41 Fecalfeast wrote:
Hi I'm working weird hours I'm here now what's up
i have 30 mins max before bed time.
where is your head at?
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On November 25 2020 08:56 Trfel wrote:@raynpelikoneet, sorry I missed you today I've been feeling really poor mentally, ended up sleeping through most of the day. Upside is I'll be up pretty late at night, but probably going to bed by about the time you get up again I wanted to discuss things with you and be around at the same time, that's my fault. Will you be around tomorrow before the deadline?
Most likely not. Well i am at work and i AM grantedly having a computer that i am not supposed to use on this shit but i will anyways... :D But still, i cannot guarantee anything. Even today i had a "nothing to do day" and i started playing mafia, ended up on not good regarding work...
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On November 25 2020 08:55 Tictock wrote:
At this point anybody seriously wanting to be mayor had better have actual opinions, a preffered lynch target, and reasons why.
Okay who is your preference atm?
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On November 25 2020 09:07 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think Vivax is actually reading the game and making at least vivax!reasonable points. I think he is like my nemesis when we are both town (lol), he will probably call me mafia like 100 times this game and i think his conspiracy theories can even ruin the game for the town at times.... But anyways i think there has been like one game pretty much EVER when i have not been able to determine Vivax as mafia -- and very early -- when he has been mafia. He can post stupid ass shit, he can not even make any sense at all but the no matter if the game is 10 pages or 100 pages mafia!Vivax doesn't care to read the thread at all with any insight, period. Pretty much it was the post i asked him about, the Slam thing about Slam trying to make friends with you Hapa. I think it is too convoluted read to make if you are Vivax and play as mafia as Vivax plays as mafia. That's pretty much it, there are some other minor points like him getting and WILLFULLY getting into an argument with you, but the main point is that he is genuinely reading the game more than mafia!Vivax would. As a counterpoint to this, isn't the one game where you failed to catch Vivax as mafia his only recent mafia game? I could be wrong on that, but I remember that game recently where Vivax actually played the game as mafia for one of the first times, and it was significantly different from his previously typical mafia play (which was easily identifiable). Since he's demonstrated his capabilities as mafia, I think that makes him much harder to read, especially early on. I'm just interested in your thoughts on that, and if you included that in your read?
I agree. With pretty much everything you say. As it is exactly the game you are referring to.
Still, i never saw him make very good shit posts that actually look town. Meh okay, i agree i am kinda skipping shit here but i think it is fine at this.. I dont think i am gonna change my mind here though..
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I think you are morely focused on Vivax' meta and i am focused on his meta and then idk our worlds collide ffs lol.... :D
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hey slam my campaign is MAKE VIVAX STRONG AGAIN!!!!!!
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can i give you hats, is it more likely you think i am town or what? :D
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I genuinely might get too drunk atm if i continue. So bed time for me 
Deadline for me is work (basically). If anyone tells "rayn is just posting random shit without quoting smartly" fucking kill that every day.
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On November 25 2020 09:25 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you are morely focused on Vivax' meta and i am focused on his meta and then idk our worlds collide ffs lol.... :D I don't feel too focused on Vivax's meta? I just know he's a capable scum player, and I don't feel like he's done anything out of that range yet. I'm confident his alignment will become more clear over time, I always think that lynches and deadlines make it much easier to discern players' alignments.
uh.. then we have a problem. because i dont have him as "capable scum player" at all.
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Well i have to sleep anyways now.
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On November 25 2020 09:29 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 25 2020 09:25 Trfel wrote:On November 25 2020 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you are morely focused on Vivax' meta and i am focused on his meta and then idk our worlds collide ffs lol.... :D I don't feel too focused on Vivax's meta? I just know he's a capable scum player, and I don't feel like he's done anything out of that range yet. I'm confident his alignment will become more clear over time, I always think that lynches and deadlines make it much easier to discern players' alignments. uh.. then we have a problem. because i dont have him as "capable scum player" at all. I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. IMO you have to assume someone can play to the top of their scum range, and Vivax has demonstrated at least a decent scum range. Even if typically he hasn't hit that. I like Vivax's play so far and I'd town lean him I think, but I'm not too confident yet.
I dont understand. Why do we have an argument on Vivax if you agree with me on him?
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On November 25 2020 09:33 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2020 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 25 2020 09:29 Trfel wrote:On November 25 2020 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 25 2020 09:25 Trfel wrote:On November 25 2020 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think you are morely focused on Vivax' meta and i am focused on his meta and then idk our worlds collide ffs lol.... :D I don't feel too focused on Vivax's meta? I just know he's a capable scum player, and I don't feel like he's done anything out of that range yet. I'm confident his alignment will become more clear over time, I always think that lynches and deadlines make it much easier to discern players' alignments. uh.. then we have a problem. because i dont have him as "capable scum player" at all. I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. IMO you have to assume someone can play to the top of their scum range, and Vivax has demonstrated at least a decent scum range. Even if typically he hasn't hit that. I like Vivax's play so far and I'd town lean him I think, but I'm not too confident yet. I dont understand. Why do we have an argument on Vivax if you agree with me on him? Because you're highly confident he is town, I'm much closer to null but slightly town? I wouldn't call it an argument, I was just wanting to know where you were coming from. I now understand, even if I don't agree.
Oh right. Yeah that's true.
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Idk. i have to sleep. I think i should be mayor.
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EPT
