On April 07 2020 09:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Shockeyy while being pressured is more answering questions while consistently reading to catch up. He has played in 20+ people games where by this point in time we'd have 200+ pages of content. He has experience in reading / being caught up in those games. So if you post 3-5 times in a 21 page game where the first 2ish pages are pregame / signups. So a 18-19 page game, 20 posts a page where most aren't very long catching up should be well, easy. Filter diving makes it easier. Given that to get anything of substance requires constantly pushing him to respond to things, makes me see scum motivations.
Not saying he hasn't had migraines but I also remember people faking moving / random other life stuff as scum to avoid posting in game.
Chez is honestly a mixture of 2 things. Last few games ive played with him, as town, hes at least helpful in his flavour posting. You can clearly see what he wants. So far this game flavour wise, the only thing he has wanted to do was kill Andrezza. To drop a vote (never change said vote) and manage to make that specific person die is pretty lucky no? I may have bias because his steak cooking method made me die inside.
Are you entertaining anyone else in the game as plausible mafia, or just those two?
1)In some insano world, you lynch me, then "town-BC" is captain of the ship heading into LYLO. You have one lynch. Who is more likely to flip mafia; Chez or Shockey?
2)Please link me games re: Chez meta that you are referencing.
3)How do you interpret this sequence by Jock:
On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him?
I'm not saying that.
That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up.
My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
On April 07 2020 09:41 Hapahauli wrote: 1)In some insano world, you lynch me, then "town-BC" is captain of the ship heading into LYLO. You have one lynch. Who is more likely to flip mafia; Chez or Shockey?
2)Please link me games re: Chez meta that you are referencing.
On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him?
I'm not saying that.
That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up.
My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
##unvote ##vote: shockeyy
as for your 1) At the moment I would say shockeyy. I will go dig up a game of chez being helpful some point in a few hours. Might take me a bit to find a good example.
3) TBH those posts are the biggest reason I said he could be mafia/bad. In no world does it make sense to say my top scumread is x then not vote for them. His list clearly said lynch in order of Hapa, Rels, Shockeyy, Trfel. Given that shockeyy didnt say anything to move himself up that list / mixed with the fact he included someone who hadn't posted anything at all as scummier than 2 players is well, a tell imo.
On April 07 2020 09:41 Hapahauli wrote: 1)In some insano world, you lynch me, then "town-BC" is captain of the ship heading into LYLO. You have one lynch. Who is more likely to flip mafia; Chez or Shockey?
2)Please link me games re: Chez meta that you are referencing.
3)How do you interpret this sequence by Jock:
On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote: So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
On April 05 2020 22:19 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him?
I'm not saying that.
That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up.
My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
##unvote ##vote: shockeyy
as for your 1) At the moment I would say shockeyy. I will go dig up a game of chez being helpful some point in a few hours. Might take me a bit to find a good example.
3) TBH those posts are the biggest reason I said he could be mafia/bad. In no world does it make sense to say my top scumread is x then not vote for them. His list clearly said lynch in order of Hapa, Rels, Shockeyy, Trfel. Given that shockeyy didnt say anything to move himself up that list / mixed with the fact he included someone who hadn't posted anything at all as scummier than 2 players is well, a tell imo.
2) One town game of Chez being helpful as town does not make a meta tell. You know this.
3) I wasn't clear in my question. Jock is dead, and it doesn't matter what your read on him was, or how you justified it for that matter. Knowing that he is mafia, what can we learn from that post about other players in this game?
On April 05 2020 04:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: hmm, im having some intuitions that say "watch the trfel person, or that shockeyy" the entrance they made hasn't been good enough.
Also glad to see you still play exactly as my brain remembers you Vivax. Fast and loose. Like I was at 17 apparently.
So my memory is correct. BloodyC0bbler himself was suspicious of ShoCkeyy's entrance to the thread. Jockmcplop, BloodyC0bbler's townread at the time, was too.
This makes BloodyC0bbler's townread on ShoCkeyy early on even harder to understand.
I'm dumb, that's what you guys were talking about with the whole jarring thing. But on my phone I can't seem to find the conversation.
Just thinking out loud, which given the low number of posts in the thread is fine I believe.
Curious if anyone knows when Jockmcplop realized he was going to be lynched. I want to look at Jockmcplop's filter to try and get any hints to if there was an intentional bus play or not.
On April 07 2020 10:09 Hapahauli wrote: Still waiting for the results of your read-through Shockey...
Have you read anything in the thread so far that includes my name or have you ignored the past responses? I've been posting the results of my read through as I was active and responding to current questions.
The only other person that hasn't done much is Vivax, he hopped on that Hap casing Jock wagon really early, and then bounced for the night round, but that doesn't matter since you insta 100% towned him anyways. I think I've been active and willingly to answer questions, and give feedback. It may not be in full 10000 word posts but I'm active enough to help push town for a win given we make the right decisions.
Ultimately your alignment is a very important piece of that puzzle, and I'm gonna give you a hard time because I want to squeeze those juicy reads out of you.
So three questions for starters so we can begin to consolidate your opinions and feels: 1) Who is in your "do not lynch" bucket? 2) Who is in your "lynch" bucket? 3) Of Bucket #2, who is your top candidate and why? What makes them worse than other candidates?
On April 07 2020 09:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Shockeyy while being pressured is more answering questions while consistently reading to catch up. He has played in 20+ people games where by this point in time we'd have 200+ pages of content. He has experience in reading / being caught up in those games. So if you post 3-5 times in a 21 page game where the first 2ish pages are pregame / signups. So a 18-19 page game, 20 posts a page where most aren't very long catching up should be well, easy. Filter diving makes it easier. Given that to get anything of substance requires constantly pushing him to respond to things, makes me see scum motivations.
Not saying he hasn't had migraines but I also remember people faking moving / random other life stuff as scum to avoid posting in game.
Chez is honestly a mixture of 2 things. Last few games ive played with him, as town, hes at least helpful in his flavour posting. You can clearly see what he wants. So far this game flavour wise, the only thing he has wanted to do was kill Andrezza. To drop a vote (never change said vote) and manage to make that specific person die is pretty lucky no? I may have bias because his steak cooking method made me die inside.
Funny, given that the the first game I played was one of yours, and it had +30 and only 40 pages. Half of what we have now, with less players, I was also one of the few townies that got lynched but guessed mafia correctly.
Given the current scale I think I'm doing a lot to contribute my feedback even though it seems like it's not taken seriously.
@BloodyC0bbler: Why did you townread ShoCkeyy early Day 1?
I know you already answered it here:
On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
But to me, that doesn't make any sense. Given that you said that you didn't like his entrance:
On April 05 2020 04:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: hmm, im having some intuitions that say "watch the trfel person, or that shockeyy" the entrance they made hasn't been good enough.
and your scumreads (Vivax, Hapahauli, and me) weren't focusing him at all. I looked at player filters to confirm this. I asked ShoCkeyy a few questions, but said my read on him was "exactly null." Vivax had ShoCkeyy had top scum for about 20 minutes, and quickly jumped away to focus on Jockmcplop. Hapahauli barely mentioned ShoCkeyy and didn't suggest he was mafia in the slightest.
So how did you arrive at this read? Because to me it doesn't add up.
On April 07 2020 10:44 Hapahauli wrote: I have read all of your posts Shock.
Ultimately your alignment is a very important piece of that puzzle, and I'm gonna give you a hard time because I want to squeeze those juicy reads out of you.
So three questions for starters so we can begin to consolidate your opinions and feels: 1) Who is in your "do not lynch" bucket? 2) Who is in your "lynch" bucket? 3) Of Bucket #2, who is your top candidate and why? What makes them worse than other candidates?
1) rayn, hap, trfel 2) bloodycobbler, chezinu 3) havent decided, depends on night kill sadly.
On April 07 2020 10:44 Hapahauli wrote: I have read all of your posts Shock.
Ultimately your alignment is a very important piece of that puzzle, and I'm gonna give you a hard time because I want to squeeze those juicy reads out of you.
So three questions for starters so we can begin to consolidate your opinions and feels: 1) Who is in your "do not lynch" bucket? 2) Who is in your "lynch" bucket? 3) Of Bucket #2, who is your top candidate and why? What makes them worse than other candidates?
1) rayn, hap, trfel 2) bloodycobbler, chezinu 3) havent decided, depends on night kill sadly.
On April 07 2020 10:36 Trfel wrote: I'm dumb, that's what you guys were talking about with the whole jarring thing. But on my phone I can't seem to find the conversation.
The "jarring" conversation between me and BC starts at post #224.
Just thinking out loud, which given the low number of posts in the thread is fine I believe.
Curious if anyone knows when Jockmcplop realized he was going to be lynched. I want to look at Jockmcplop's filter to try and get any hints to if there was an intentional bus play or not.
Looking at the thread, "19 hours ago" (according to TL timestamps) is when the 4th vote goes on Jock. There's no other voting activity on Jock, and he is lynched exactly on those votes. Jock and Shock (heheh) do vote for me subsequently.
Jock begins his entrance "17 hours ago", or post #241. He's reasonably active (and seemingly trying to live) until #276/#278, which are his last posts (town-reading BC):
On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read.
Here I will update my lists for you
Town Bloodyc0bbler
Lean Town Rayn Vivax
Null Rels Shockeyy Chezinu
Lean scum Jock trfel
Scum Hapa
There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =)
I don't like the way he jumped on the jock train with everyone else but I can understand it if he sees my posts as objectively bad. I don't get why though.
He's moved you up to being a town read which is confusing. I don't see how your play has changed since he was leaning scum on you. Is he just following other people's reads?
The other changes seem natural to me, shockeyy down to null and rayn up to town lean.
Vivax, if you say there's an algorithmic way of thinking about mafia and you get where BC is coming from with that, would you say he is consistent about through day 1 so far? Surely that's a way we can get a read on him, but I'm not familiar with the idea.
On April 06 2020 23:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: He said Vivax wasn't explaining his reads until he did, and his position changed on the list after that.
Yeah that checks out.
BC still a townread for me then.
He does have one last post at #334, but he has very obviously given up by then:
On April 07 2020 01:59 Jockmcplop wrote: trfel help
So there's roughly a 2.5 hour gap between his last "serious" post (read on BC) and the end of the game. A gap where I assume he had given up.
Given the relative lack of activity in the voting thread (suspicion pretty much immediately consolidating on Jock), I don't see much to gleam from this.
I'll take a look at the voting on Jock earlier in Day 1, but everyone seemed to go on him pretty early and hard from memory.
On April 05 2020 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is that saying you dont belong to the family?
On April 05 2020 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe he fell asleep again? It's also boring to tak with townies only so maybe we wait for the bloody cobbler to arrive.
Why did raynpelikoneet's view change? Even if he's just joking around, if he's town, I expect him to have some perception of my alignment; whatever it is, it can't really fit into both of these statements.
On April 05 2020 04:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Shockeyy feels weird.
is raynpelikoneet's only post with actual mafia gameplay. Frivolous posts at this stage in the game are understandable, however even after this raynpelikoneet continues to talk about flavor. He didn't explain why ShoCkeyy's post felt weird to him, or try to ask ShoCkeyy any followup questions.
On April 05 2020 02:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am in search for my wife. If you married this super handsome Luca guy just tell me and i will give you immunity for day 1. I am happy to murder our kids though.
Lucca Baby. I dont know if its love or the quarantine talking, but I like the cut of your olives.
Holy Italy is it you my love? :D
Of course my Dear. You filled me with a kid then made me fall in love with you because of the farm. Its not stockholm, its the real deal.
I should have known it of course. You cannot be possessed with those dark souls, no dark sould would crash my head against a pan repeatedly like you. That being said i am gonna have some dinner snacks and watch a movie with my other missus so i will be back in an hour or two.
Clearly, raynpellikoneet lied here. This is in dramatic contrast with the boredom and interest in playing the game he was trying to show earlier on.
Have fun!
You are probably town for this. I also think you are right on rayn but not for those reasons.,
On April 05 2020 14:43 Vivax wrote: Shockeyy do you have any scumreads or leads? Feels like you are just coexisting.
Jock I really really think Trfel is town here. He has a mind of his own if I had to name the reason, instead of just being a void content factory.
I kinda understand where BloodyC0bbler is coming from to put Vivax at a scum lean at this point. He explained his townread on me (Trfel), and said he is suspicious of raynpelikoneet, and implied that he is suspicious of ShoCkeyy. But there were no reasons given for the last two.
On April 05 2020 14:43 Vivax wrote: Shockeyy do you have any scumreads or leads? Feels like you are just coexisting.
Jock I really really think Trfel is town here. He has a mind of his own if I had to name the reason, instead of just being a void content factory.
Just curious why do you think Trfel is town here? Do you have anything on anybody else yourself?
It's funny you quote a post where I explain why and ask for the why. There is enough content in the game already to form opinions, but you don't have any reads and want more content.
I don't know if you're just that confused and lazy at reading or just mafia.
On April 05 2020 17:20 Vivax wrote: Rayn, Shockeyy is probably scum. Also where Hapa seemed to intend to go with his posting.
On April 05 2020 17:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like.... why is he mafia? I don't understand?
He's just posting along and not poking anywhere. Though I'm doubting the read a little because he just seems super carefree.
Warming up for a Jock vote instead on a reread, tell me what you think?
I think him going after Trfel here feels a bit like he was trying to echo some sentiment (from BC but also me at the start) so it seems kind of opportunistic and he's way too focused on just talking it out with him instead of explaining what makes Trfel scum besides the post where he said he was overdefensive.
On April 05 2020 18:15 Vivax wrote: Fair enough, could use more Hapa in here anyway. But I still don't think the way Jock went after Trfel was townie.
On April 05 2020 18:56 Vivax wrote: BC in this case seems to just take positions beforehand and then attach whatever reasoning he can muster to justify them, posthum. Also scummy af.
On April 05 2020 14:43 Vivax wrote: Shockeyy do you have any scumreads or leads? Feels like you are just coexisting.
Jock I really really think Trfel is town here. He has a mind of his own if I had to name the reason, instead of just being a void content factory.
That is basically the easiest thing hes posted that I went "wtf" on. Also, he didnt answer a question I posted a few pages ago and has been "active' while not actively pushing much. Outside of basically Trfe and rayn, Vivax has no real reads/leanings on peoples alignment. Or at least ones hes posted. Meanwhile he called someone out for almost identical behaviour
I mean sure, he doesn't understand how I read Trfel. Which is just that in the last game, he was posting 'analysis' on tons of people without seeming to have an actual opinion. While also seeming awkward and appeasing. That can be forgiven because I kept it short.
But saying I have no reads or leans or claiming that not answering his question when it's obvious at what I'm looking at which answers it, is just false. I scumlean shockey, rayn, Jock. I townread Trfel and made all of those clear.
But I have to admit chances are this is just bad town play. Depends really on how much he is willing to backtrack and admit it was just factually wrong.
(and a few more but you get the idea)
Admittedly, it seems like a reasonable change. I still struggle a little to see the initial read but if you accept the initial read, the reasons for the read to change do make sense.
I'll probably be out for a bit. That or looking at Jockmcplop's filter some more.
On April 05 2020 17:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like.... why is he mafia? I don't understand?
He's just posting along and not poking anywhere. Though I'm doubting the read a little because he just seems super carefree.
Warming up for a Jock vote instead on a reread, tell me what you think?
I think him going after Trfel here feels a bit like he was trying to echo some sentiment (from BC but also me at the start) so it seems kind of opportunistic and he's way too focused on just talking it out with him instead of explaining what makes Trfel scum besides the post where he said he was overdefensive.
A couple of hours later, Jock fucks up and posts his "read list into Shockey Vote", which draws some definite negative attention to it. Rayn points it out in his post:
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
On April 05 2020 22:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i am just bad but i don't really understand you right now because you seem to be saying Trfel is not mafia but your vote is still on him?
I'm not saying that.
That one or two sentences he posted made me think town, but because of his tone and the way interacting with him felt to me he's a scumlean. Its not that hard to understand tbh and I said the same thing a few posts up.
My vote was only still on trfel because i hadn't moved it yet.
##unvote ##vote: shockeyy
I gotta nap on it, but it looks like a thing to lynch for sure.
My vote, Vivax's vote, and Trefel's vote follow shortly thereafter.
The interesting tidbitds are: 1) Good lord Chez voted early. I find it pretty mind-melting to think that his "mafia-plan" was just to fuck it, insta-bus and peace out on his buddy. It's not like any of us would really blink if Chez switched his vote at any time later in the day. 2) The more I read Jock's "readlist into Shockey vote", the more it feels like an attempt to go after an easy lynchbait target vs. some malevolent attempt to bus his "teammate".
Thanks for the analysis Hapahauli. That makes sense to me. I guess given the circumstances it's not super meaningful I was hoping to see how other people's interactions changed around the time it seems like Jockmcplop gave up (like, if people went harder to push him then, it's more likely they were bussing, etc). But given that my biggest scumread, BloodyC0bbler, wasn't around at all during that time anyway, there's probably not too much to be learned from it.
EPT
I was hoping to see how other people's interactions changed around the time it seems like Jockmcplop gave up (like, if people went harder to push him then, it's more likely they were bussing, etc). But given that my biggest scumread, BloodyC0bbler, wasn't around at all during that time anyway, there's probably not too much to be learned from it.
