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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:04 Grackaroni wrote: I filtered Shapelog. I had him as a mafia lean. Then I read your filter and liked your push and decided that you believed it so I said in thread that I was upgrading you to town. fair enough. do you understand it now though? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
I said I wanted to remind everyone, including myself, that he promised to post more later. That's very different, and is a much more natural explanation than either i was joking or i was scumreading him in a pile on. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:09 Jockmcplop wrote: Kelsier I didn't say I was just joking. I said I wanted to remind everyone, including myself, that he promised to post more later. That's very different, and is a much more natural explanation than either i was joking or i was scumreading him in a pile on. Actually if you are mafia it's not. If you are mafia it's definitely possible you are throwing more fuel onto the fire without sticking your neck out. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually if you are mafia it's not. If you are mafia it's definitely possible you are throwing more fuel onto the fire without sticking your neck out. OK, so just to indulge this for a short time more, please go through the following post and see if you can point out: a) Where I am throwing fuel on a fire b) Where I suggest that grack is scum, town, or anything else or give any kind of read. c) Where I am being opportunistic. On June 24 2019 16:18 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah but just you wait. He's going to have SO MUCH CONTENT by the end of the day.... Because to me, it looks pretty obvious that what I'm doing here is saying 'Hey everyone, remember when grack said he would have a filter full of content by the end of the day?" I mean really, really obvious. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9857 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: fair enough. do you understand it now though? You think he's giving a shallow read of Trfel as in "Trfel said something inaccurate about Eversince's behavior so he's scum mischaracterizing Eversince" to be able to scum read him rather than understanding Trfel's perspective. Personally I liked Trfel's aggressive posts when not much is happening in thread. I think they're not well informed but not too likely to come from mafia. I think what bothers me is that when he talks about Trfel's post on me he seems to view it from the point of view as I do, as in "this is an eager townie reading too far into Grack's post. You don't have enough evidence to make this conclusion yet" and then when Trfel makes a similar post against Eversince it's "this is scum mischaracterizing Eversince's behavior." And also Eversince was Shapelog's scum read to begin with. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:14 Jockmcplop wrote: OK, so just to indulge this for a short time more, please go through the following post and see if you can point out: a) Where I am throwing fuel on a fire b) Where I suggest that grack is scum, town, or anything else or give any kind of read. c) Where I am being opportunistic. Because to me, it looks pretty obvious that what I'm doing here is saying 'Hey everyone, remember when grack said he would have a filter full of content by the end of the day?" I mean really, really obvious. The timing and manner of the post made it not so obvious, looked like an easy chance to throw some shit. Busy rest of the night but i'll try to read rayn's shapelog case and look at pandain tomorrow. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:14 Jockmcplop wrote: OK, so just to indulge this for a short time more, please go through the following post and see if you can point out: a) Where I am throwing fuel on a fire b) Where I suggest that grack is scum, town, or anything else or give any kind of read. c) Where I am being opportunistic. Because to me, it looks pretty obvious that what I'm doing here is saying 'Hey everyone, remember when grack said he would have a filter full of content by the end of the day?" I mean really, really obvious. Maybe you are looking at the game differently than i am, but for me saying "Hey everyone, remember when grack said he would have a filter full of content by the end of the day" CAN imply throwing fuel into the fire without actually "taking the blame" of calling someone mafia. what i mean is, if i were to assume you are mafia, you would be on the both sides of the fence. I mean like you didn't actually call him mafia or anything but there sure CAN be an implication of that. That's why being clear is important. Remember that people outside mafia don't know your alignment and even jokes or however you word your posts can be read differently when people don't know your motivation behind your post. I am not saying you are mafia, i don't think you are, because i find it more likely you are telling the truth here rather than lying, but please try to understand that in a mafia game you should choose your words carefully even if you are town because some people might think you are doing things from mafia perspective and that doesn't necessarily make them mafia even if they are wrong. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:16 Grackaroni wrote: You think he's giving a shallow read of Trfel as in "Trfel said something inaccurate about Eversince's behavior so he's scum mischaracterizing Eversince" to be able to scum read him rather than understanding Trfel's perspective. Personally I liked Trfel's aggressive posts when not much is happening in thread. I think they're not well informed but not too likely to come from mafia. I think what bothers me is that when he talks about Trfel's post on me he seems to view it from the point of view as I do, as in "this is an eager townie reading too far into Grack's post. You don't have enough evidence to make this conclusion yet" and then when Trfel makes a similar post against Eversince it's "this is scum mischaracterizing Eversince's behavior." And also Eversince was Shapelog's scum read to begin with. Holy shit this is true aswell. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
In some circumstances, its impossible to be clear, because people will ignore what you post and attribute motivations to you that aren't there regardless of the content of the post. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Can you look at the stuff on Shapelog? If you don't agree with it, do you want to go with Kelsier or do something else? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: I agree. You can think Kelsier is mafia, but i happen to know my alignment and i can relate to what he thinks as i said. I know a townie can have that sort of first impression. Can you look at the stuff on Shapelog? If you don't agree with it, do you want to go with Kelsier or do something else? I've unvoted. I'll look at shapelog next (probably after the football match). | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
I don't think its a slam dunk but its definitely an interesting case. I can see a situation where someone doesn't apply a way of thinking that they are capable of, without having mafia motivations. That said, I don't really like shapelog's posting in general. Sort of pressured ES a little bit then dropped it, made that post about trfel and then went back on it later while still leaving room to go back to the suspicion if needed. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: What i am saying though is that i think i have evidence that Shapelog is easily capable of going deeper into why people post what they do when he is town and in this game he isn't showing that towards Trfel. This is what i am saying, no more or less. Grackaroni had a decent point too. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10021 Posts
On June 25 2019 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not saying he here should be "able to discern when a post definitely isn't mafia motivated", but he isn't even thinking about that as an option. I think I'd like to see more from shapelog, yeah. Definitely suspicious. If everything stayed the same between now and deadline I would vote. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
My read on Eversince is currently very slightly town. I feel like her play is relaxed and fluid and comfortable, and in reading her meta her scum game (admittedly long ago) was very formulaic and a little forced. There are a few things that make me question, as I have pointed out, so it's currently a very slight townread, but more importantly I doubt I'll want to lynch Eversince day 1, there are much better and/or less active targets. I really don't know what to think about Shapelog but I'll take a more detailed look later today if I can. Promise. | ||
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