EPT[M][N][72/24]Midnight Sun Mafia - Page 12
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wherebugsgo
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btw I can maybe potentially see why people think HF is scummy but this single exchange makes it really hard for me to scumread HF. I noticed that rayn's response to the "claimed? is it a joke" thing basically looked at surface level like a denial of the claim, aka it was fake, but no one else pointed it out except HF. like logically actually it's probably NAI because mafia would probably also see this and not care to bring it up, buuuut feels town. I thought iGrok looked okay but the 1 scum 3 person thing just completely ignored the possibility that all three might be town and iGrok doesn't see any independent reasons for calling Calix/HF town??? like what Views on iGrok are really hard to parse though. HF, VE, Calix (? until recently?) said iGrok is scum disfo thinks (?) iGrok is probably a good lynch, seems to also think iGrok is scum rayn, koshi, me think/thought iGrok is town conversion ignored iGrok on Koshi telling him iGrok is town, so basically sheeped Koshi AFAICT Artanis on iGrok: "not much there, could lynch on blandness" what in the fuck is going on here | ||
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Does that scumteam even make sense? | ||
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On May 22 2019 13:31 iGrok wrote: Yeah, I'm going to ignore the possibility that my two scummiest reads and the current lynch-leader are all three townies, because no one thought that. hmm I'm actually back on townleaning you, I reread and I'm not seeing you being scum especially in your interaction with Calix. That feels town-town on both sides. I honestly don't think HF or BC are scum here either, though my read on BC has weakened a bit. I think Artanis just leaped to the top of my scum list. I'm fighting between who's second/third atm but I've felt fishy about disformation/conv and how that all went down... VE also on my radar but I think I'm not so concerned about VE because I'll probably have plenty of time to talk to him and he did seem quite cooperative at EOD. alright, my reread is done so I'm going to cry in my corner for a few hours | ||
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On May 22 2019 15:23 Jockmcplop wrote: Sorry for breaking the rules I didn't even think at the time. I can continue to play but its up to you guys really. I don't want people to think they should lynch me and not bother because of what I said, that would suck hard and be unfair The other option is I stop posting altogether for this game, which I'm absolutely fine with. JOCK YOU'RE BACK :D I'm actually really happy cause I got sad reading that huge mess and I was really enjoying playing with you. BTW idk if you saw this earlier but let's hydra next game (or maybe you can hydra with someone not as shitty as me). I kinda wanna hydra cause my solo scum reads are garbage and I need to work on that, plus it's super fun to chat about the game with someone you know is seeing it from a similar in-game perspective On May 22 2019 15:13 Holyflare wrote: What the fuck have I done that makes you question those reads??? You're the one who defended and saved igrok who has the shittest logic I've ever seen. He's picked 3 random people and decided one has to be mafia in it for absolutely no reason related to in game posts and then done nothing. I've completely decimated his post on me and disfo even confirmed it and he hasn't even batted an eyelidm read my next few posts, my read on you hasn't actually changed, and I think on principle my read on BC hasn't really changed much either, just a bit wary/bothered that he bristled on Artanis so hard. Lots of interactions to play with there though and I'm on the side of Artanis being scum for now so we'll see what happens. Actually not sure if he's my top scum read yet as I think I want to prepare something for someone else. The main catalyst for me being utterly confused is that the jock mess actually caused rayn to shoot up townier in my reads list. Like something just went off in my head as I flashbacked to last game; I probably wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't also seen and acted on the exact same contradiction by voting. Like my personal opinion as I was in the process of reading that entire exchange was in agreement with Calix, that what Jock posted was indeed a contradiction and that it looked pretty awful but in context of the sea of posts Jock had I didn't think it lent much to Jock being scum. However, given how rayn plays I could 100% see town rayn just completely ignoring everything else and attacking Jock for that because that's literally what he did to me last game; he picked on the fact that I was a bit too slow in explaining some particular read I had for him and then he just didn't let that go. I really didn't notice this earlier in the game because I pretty much tuned out both rayn and Koshi for a good chunk of time and haven't really reread them at all. On May 22 2019 15:27 Holyflare wrote: That's fine. Please read igrok and then my points about him. Let's talk about iGrok and Calix's interaction from EoD, I want to be convinced here because I'm on the town iGrok train with rayn/koshi/maybe now Calix and want to understand more. He had a fake vote on Calix as well as rayn, but only pointed out the one on rayn. He talked about a vote on Calix as if it wasn't a fake vote, and I found that odd. Why be transparent about one and not the other? Could chalk it up to a mistake...but otherwise the crux of my read at this moment is tone/behaviour; I saw how Calix reacted to their interaction by backing off a bit on iGrok and he did a very similar thing to me on the last page when I called him out for the 1 scum 2 town thing. Do you acknowledge those things or do you think they're not relevant here? Lastly HF, I want you to read this string of posts from VE, and just note it, you don't have to provide thoughts yet. I'm going to make a callout of some other oddities later tonight when I have some more time and let people come to their own conclusions about what they mean. On May 22 2019 08:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Yo bugs. I'll lynch Ruxxar now. If you want. *shrug* On May 22 2019 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean we're secure in a lynch now, like you wanted. But like...I could maybe lynch ruxx. You're right, the resistance was real. On May 22 2019 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Only if you stop calling me mafia though, and stop freaking the fuck out. Then I'll switch my vote. On May 22 2019 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: omg then you can fuck yourself I'll just kill MY scumread. LOL | ||
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On May 22 2019 16:25 Holyflare wrote: I don't really know where he ever says his calix vote is fake, nor do I care. If his rayn vote is fake and you know it was fake, why does he use it as a reason to scum read me in his case as if it were real? I liked VE's deadline posts. Here's the "I unvoted Calix" thing, iGrok doesn't say it was a fake vote: On May 22 2019 07:16 iGrok wrote: I unvoted on Calix when disinfo pointed out the logic. And alright, dumb town is harsh? but I still don't like jumping across so many accusation focuses so early. But he never put this vote in the vote thread and never mentioned that he didn't do that (unlike the rayn one) and the only reason I even noticed this is because I knew from the vote thread that iGrok technically never voted until his first and final vote on you. I only wanted to point out that iGrok said his rayn vote was fake, but he never said that his Calix vote was fake, and I find that weird. I'd like him to explain this, actually. Anyway, I don't know if they mean anything in terms of iGrok's alignment. Like from some weird perspective I could imagine he wanted to see reactions to him "voting" rayn in thread but didn't want to place a real vote because it was just for reaction fishing? No idea. I think him reaching the conclusion on you being scum because he thinks one out of you three of ruxxar/HF/Calix is scum is pretty pants-on-head. Like this assertion is so blatant that I don't think he'd do it as scum, it draws too much attention. It's just that he tried to logic and then failed to consider whether you and Calix are both just town and you had a moment where you waffled on the read or whatever. | ||
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I'm not sure how any of these points lead to a calix scum read by the way. Entry post is basic - mafia, that's the extent of why she's scummy essentially? Otherwise it's ve/rayn conspiracy that changes to not really anymore - not scummy bc point doesn't mean anything? ruxxar point shows calix changing a read because someone shares a townie mindset with her - not scummy? agrees with all the rayn points and if he didn't have meta with rayn it would be good?????? conclusion is that this is the most mafia person in the game lol?????? The way these points are written, if iGrok is town, they come off more like iGrok had a gut read of Calix being scum and then confirmation biased himself further, if he saw anything at all scummy beyond the first two things. Like "basic post easy to make if less experienced scum" -> sounds like a data point fit to an already held conclusion, whereas ruxxar made a very similar beginning post and yet iGrok thought that post was fine. From a town-iGrok perspective the first two bullets (basic post + sheeping) are basically thread sentiment/easy primers and Calix is/was an easy scum read. | ||
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On May 22 2019 17:15 Holyflare wrote: Let it be said that igrok saved calix from dying but still called her mafia. Then voted a solo wagon and berated bugs for it. If igrok stayed on his mafia read calix then she would have been (and was) in the lead for a substantial margin of time. alright, you convinced me, this is scummy, we actually just mindmelded because I came back from a reread. like a few hours before deadline he admitted he knew that he had no chance of getting you lynched: On May 22 2019 06:41 iGrok wrote: Because I don't think I can get HF lynched. and then magically near deadline when it was basically just like four of us he wasted his vote rather than staying on Calix. I have to bend over backwards to explain this from a town perspective. Like there's a slim possibility he 1.) unvoted Calix just on a whim cause he was like "oh let me think about this" and then in the process of fighting with Calix came to the same conclusion as her that he was fighting a townie, then when he saw me charging on ruxx (with Calix present in the thread, maybe he figured he could get Calix to join him on you???) he decided he'd just try to throw it out there that we should lynch you instead. But that's way more complicated than the simpler answer of he's scum | ||
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That's horseshit and VE would never do that as town. VE would fight with me and try to convince me that I'm making a bad decision, and to sheep HIM instead. I would've sheeped him too if he did this, but he just was so meek that I was like okay if you have no reads of you're own I'm going with my gut on this, you can do w/e you want. I tried to bait him a bit but I'm actually still surprised he just randomly sheeped me instead of doing his own thing and telling me to fuck off. Like, he asked rayn and Koshi if their votes were pliable earlier in the game and tried to sheep on Jock rather than attempting to convince them of his own reads. Since when does VE actually try to consolidate on townies?? It felt like it was forced because I was calling him out on not consolidating, but after the callout he started consolidating on people he'd called town all game. | ||
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Prior to last page I've been mulling VE & Artanis. That scumteam actually makes perfect sense for this game, and if VE is scum with iGrok it's almost actually a good thing we didn't kill iGrok yesterday because it would have been less obvious to me that VE was more than happy to switch off him for complete BS reasons. Like can you tell me why VE, who has basically been saying he's completely fine with lynching iGrok all game (essentially his only consistent scum read) would switch to one of his townreads (ruxxar) and someone he claimed to reach the exact opposite conclusion as me, and fought me over for a good half the day, at the last minute, with basically no resistance whatsoever? Like I'm trying to consider why town VE would ever do that and I just can't. He was even berating me for supposedly not being on any of the leading wagons. Then, when he's on the leading wagon and he can just off iGrok, his ONLY SCUM READ, he sheeps me on someone he reached the exact opposite conclusion on?? Like the only reason he cited was that there's been resistance to my lynch of choice. That was enough to throw away his townread? | ||
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On May 22 2019 18:06 Holyflare wrote: I don't think VE's deadline looks as bad as you think it does. You essentially bullied him to voting with you. Seems natural progression to me. Your point is largely meta that you don't think he'd normally do that and I don't have that meta so can only look at what I see at face value. I think I might have to relent on calix being mafia. Don't think the igrok progression looks good. Might also explain why a mafia igrok has to arbitrarily say one of me or calix is mafia with bad reasons and why he essentially scum reads her for bad points - because it's not a natural scum read. I can agree to disagree on the bullying but not the naturalness of it. Forget the meta for a second here. 1. All day he says my main target, ruxxar, is a townread. Says he reached opposite conclusions on ruxxar/disfo (so he scumreads disfo-I offered both of these targets as consolidation options but VE never really bothered with disfo, why? also said I was basically freaking out about him not sheeping me but I presented those choices fairly transparently, if he disagreed he could've just tried to convince me to kill disfo instead) 2. EOD He already was on the leading wagon, for a scumread, iGrok. Then he's actually the FIRST one to get cold feet. It's not like someone else moved and then he was like "oh clearly iGrok is not happening, time to jump ship" it was more like "oh bugs is here and he said he's confused why I'm not here buddying, guess I should just throw away two of my reads and buddy him" this is sort of the only post in that series I actually half liked: On May 22 2019 08:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh I'm nervous. But I've also got you in here screaming about wanting to lynch me no matter what happens so what the fuck does changing votes do for anything? I have had a townread on Ruxxar all game and you're asking me to change my vote AGAIN now that we've actually decided on someone YOU JUST SAID YOU'RE RELATIVELY OKAY WITH DYING....like I just don't know what you need man, you're tilted and there's nothing WE can do to bring you back. After this phase just leave and come back D2 (or not HEHEHE) refreshed and NOT titled to shit. idk, he even admitted we had plenty of time left and could've actually had a discussion on it but he just didn't want to I suppose? Maybe I came off too strong, which is odd because I feel like VE has prickled at me far more than I have in reverse. anyway, the one post I just could not get over, particularly in context of a whole bunch of other things that I've noticed that VE has just gotten wrong, was this one: On May 21 2019 06:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah I'm fine with ruX. I picked up reading after his initial post (which I initially townread him for) and he checked like all my townie marks in the first few posts after. I don't want to lynch ruX. Among the things I found were: Annoyance at being ignored. Annoyance with lurkers. Fluid reads that change as people post. Bringing up people others aren't looking at. Among other more nuanced things I look for. Rux not on my radar today. The first two points are completely unsupported, the 3rd is subjective/VE didn't really provide evidence for this and the 4th I'll concede. I called VE out on this, like at least twice, and never got complete responses. VE only responded on the "annoyance with lurkers" was mentioned and that was apparently a misread on his part. | ||
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On May 22 2019 18:34 Koshi wrote: Basically you are scumreading VE for making a correct read but supporting your terrible read after hijacking the thread and being a whiny little bitch pushing Ruxxar lynch relentlessly. yes. | ||
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On May 22 2019 19:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Calix and VE liking the BC case and then never actually moving their vote when they didn't seem convinced by the leading wagons makes my boner to lynch all of them that much harder. Ah you’re here for only two hours right? So this is my only chance Two things I’d like you to explain: 1. If BC and VE are scum why was BC willing to help me push VE? And why would VE say that BC was buddying me/not actually believing in the case on VE himself if they’re both scum? 2. Why would either Calix or VE vote BC at EOD when igrok reached the lead? They seemed far more into killing iGrok than BC 3. Where is disformation? | ||
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On May 21 2019 21:45 VisceraEyes wrote: OMG BC is voting for me and I jsut bet you he never did open my filter. That means he's voting for me on YOUR behalf bugs. Not that that's a problem for me. Just thought I'd mention it because while you think I'm scum I might as well act like scum. I do intend to help this game, I said I'd sheep. I'll help with flip information, it's real easy. Don't lynch me over people who aren't playing that's fucking stupid and retarded. Why are you even considering that shit? This one artanis | ||
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On May 22 2019 19:54 disformation wrote: bleh. -.- i am here. though tired and at work. bc: totes scum calix, ve: totes scum for saying they like the case but refusing to vote disfo: only guy to vote totes scum and only other guy to at least try to get ppl to vote bc: *insert tumbleweed gif* not sure if that makes you scum, but I feel kinda insulted -.- rofl you have the best callouts this game | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:21 VisceraEyes wrote: You're lucky I don't have a gun. Or don't I? Sleep well. I have a roleblocker on my team so I'm going to sleep very well, don't worry  | ||
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On May 22 2019 20:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I fucking despise scum claims. Even jokes are so fucking annoying but if you're mafia and just did that shit... I mean there's no way you get me killed this game VE, it would take your team a miracle. | ||
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