EPTOn June 27 2018 23:29 ShoCkeyy wrote:
This doesn't help you, if anything mafia would likely never go back to older games because they simply don't care. While meta can change in different games yes, and it's hard to classify just based on that, it does help when you've played games with others.
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2018 23:13 Calix wrote:
Another meta defense? I'm getting sick of this. Why can't anyone just defend their posts that they're making IN THIS GAME instead of expecting me to slog through games from 2012 or whatever?
What's the point of casing people when everyone responds to what I say with "but what about this really old meta though?" and "how dare you scum-read people you've never played with before, you're obviously mafia"?
I too could throw a bunch of old games at you if I really wanted to "prove" I'm town but that's boring and doesn't actually prove anything anyway.
But I give up. I'll just stick with Vivax so I don't have to deal with some bullshit meta defense instead of anything sourced from this particular game.
On June 27 2018 23:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Since you haven't played with me before, I'm town, others that have, already see that I'm town... Even Conversion called me out on my bait for mafia members. I think I gave enough reasoning why I currently scum read you and Tictock, and there is also enough evidence on the thread against you, like what, there's already been two cases against you such as:
I mean, you trying to say I give no evidence of why you're mafia is just trying to shit on me for no reason and paint me as mafia, when it's clear where your allegiance stands.
Since you haven't played with me before, I'm town, others that have, already see that I'm town... Even Conversion called me out on my bait for mafia members. I think I gave enough reasoning why I currently scum read you and Tictock, and there is also enough evidence on the thread against you, like what, there's already been two cases against you such as:
On June 27 2018 08:15 Mocsta wrote:
##Vote: Calix
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +
I have highlighted key parts of the quotes in red, as I do believe this is a genuine scum slip/town tell & may have gone over most peoples heads.
(1) Calix requests random vote bandwagon
(2) Regfan posts a fake post
(3) TT requests to vote Regfan (implied to Calix)
(4) Calix provides "analysis of Regfan post" by commenting on validity of cop claim
(5) Other posters comment on "Regfan post" by simply stating "copypasta"
What I find critical about this sequence of events is that:
- Calix cop claim assessment doesn't consider a world where Regfan is mafia and fake-posting, instead
- Calix auto-assumes a world where Regfan is cop or VT
This is important because Calix is changing gears from "random vote" to "analysis before vote" to provide this contribution that is in essence providing town-lean evidence to upgrade from scummy to NULL.
This only satisfies mafia agenda.
You provide authentic contribution (i.e. town read), make a potential ally in Regfan, and possibly start a wagon on those that scum read Regfan.
I think the townier way to go about the fake-post was what others did. Comment that its a copy/paste and move on. In a world where you only have your PM that is green or blue; how do you read into that fake-post any further.... well, you cant.
So why does Calix then go out on a limb so early?
Why jump to the conclusion that a fake-post is from town land only?
Why change gears in the first place?
I absolutely understand why town and scum would not want to random vote; but I cannot comprehend why any town would want to feign a care-free attitude to then ditch it immediately.
##Vote: Calix
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +
On June 26 2018 08:06 Calix wrote:
Sup, long time no see. Fancy randomly bandwagoning some AFK person for the lulz?
Sup, long time no see. Fancy randomly bandwagoning some AFK person for the lulz?
On June 26 2018 08:14 Tictock wrote:
On second thought, lets vote Regfan, purely for having an obscene prepared post, that I will prob never read.
On second thought, lets vote Regfan, purely for having an obscene prepared post, that I will prob never read.
On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote:
It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that.
It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that.
On June 26 2018 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Calix literally didn't take a stance on anything since the conclusion says "not alignment indicative". Which is by the way the opposite you claimed a conclusion towards your post should be in the first place. Secondly, the conclusion sucks even more since the first paragraph of her post includes an indirect assumption that your hydra is town, which again contradicts clearly to the conclusion she has made. There is no reason to believe, in case your post is pre-written, that you do not believe you have a cop check on N0 as a cop so a smart person, instead of making that post would instead of writing a nice looking nice sounding nonsense post ask "why don't you wanna claim your check right now?"
If you think people who are being nice are more likely to be town and people who are not nice are not, then you have a very terrible view of what this game is about. Also if what you said here:
..if you actually believe this, then you should probably call yourself mafia for the very first post you made this game.
Calix literally didn't take a stance on anything since the conclusion says "not alignment indicative". Which is by the way the opposite you claimed a conclusion towards your post should be in the first place. Secondly, the conclusion sucks even more since the first paragraph of her post includes an indirect assumption that your hydra is town, which again contradicts clearly to the conclusion she has made. There is no reason to believe, in case your post is pre-written, that you do not believe you have a cop check on N0 as a cop so a smart person, instead of making that post would instead of writing a nice looking nice sounding nonsense post ask "why don't you wanna claim your check right now?"
If you think people who are being nice are more likely to be town and people who are not nice are not, then you have a very terrible view of what this game is about. Also if what you said here:
Show nested quote +
...did it in a way that contributed to discussion in a healthy way [...] which feels like a town thing
..if you actually believe this, then you should probably call yourself mafia for the very first post you made this game.
On June 26 2018 10:49 Tictock wrote:
I'm not sure I saw anything in Calix's post that made the assumption that Gemma-Reg is town, but I overall agree with rayn here.
Calix's switch in stance from "lets rando vote someone for lol's" to "thats not AI, don't vote" seemed sudden to me. Especially when my suggestion to pile votes on Reg had nothing to do with alignment. I feel slightly hypocritical here though, kus I switched my own stance of "I don't wanna vote pointlessly" to off the cuff voting someone just kus they did something I think is stupid.
Actually maybe I do see what you mean here Rayn, there is no way Calix should be able to make any assumption about when Reg prepared that post. PM's went out an hour before the game started so there was plenty of time to decide to do something like that after getting a role, and there should be no real way to tell when someone makes that call.
Anyways, I'll optimistically call Rayn and Mocsta town here.
I'm not sure I saw anything in Calix's post that made the assumption that Gemma-Reg is town, but I overall agree with rayn here.
Calix's switch in stance from "lets rando vote someone for lol's" to "thats not AI, don't vote" seemed sudden to me. Especially when my suggestion to pile votes on Reg had nothing to do with alignment. I feel slightly hypocritical here though, kus I switched my own stance of "I don't wanna vote pointlessly" to off the cuff voting someone just kus they did something I think is stupid.
Actually maybe I do see what you mean here Rayn, there is no way Calix should be able to make any assumption about when Reg prepared that post. PM's went out an hour before the game started so there was plenty of time to decide to do something like that after getting a role, and there should be no real way to tell when someone makes that call.
Anyways, I'll optimistically call Rayn and Mocsta town here.
On June 26 2018 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works).
So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?"
Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like.
If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works).
So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?"
Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like.
I have highlighted key parts of the quotes in red, as I do believe this is a genuine scum slip/town tell & may have gone over most peoples heads.
(1) Calix requests random vote bandwagon
(2) Regfan posts a fake post
(3) TT requests to vote Regfan (implied to Calix)
(4) Calix provides "analysis of Regfan post" by commenting on validity of cop claim
(5) Other posters comment on "Regfan post" by simply stating "copypasta"
What I find critical about this sequence of events is that:
- Calix cop claim assessment doesn't consider a world where Regfan is mafia and fake-posting, instead
- Calix auto-assumes a world where Regfan is cop or VT
This is important because Calix is changing gears from "random vote" to "analysis before vote" to provide this contribution that is in essence providing town-lean evidence to upgrade from scummy to NULL.
This only satisfies mafia agenda.
You provide authentic contribution (i.e. town read), make a potential ally in Regfan, and possibly start a wagon on those that scum read Regfan.
I think the townier way to go about the fake-post was what others did. Comment that its a copy/paste and move on. In a world where you only have your PM that is green or blue; how do you read into that fake-post any further.... well, you cant.
So why does Calix then go out on a limb so early?
Why jump to the conclusion that a fake-post is from town land only?
Why change gears in the first place?
I absolutely understand why town and scum would not want to random vote; but I cannot comprehend why any town would want to feign a care-free attitude to then ditch it immediately.
On June 27 2018 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I simply don't have much to add rn. Also when someone acts like complete ass towards me for no reason at all i am gonna grab my tools and go home. I have better things to do than lose my mental health over some idiot.
Calix is painfully obviously mafia. Vote on Vivax means absolutely nothing since it's probably the best thing to do regardless of Vivax' affiliation. She isn't even trying to do anything after Cake case, simply just nothing, except for looking into lurkers (which also was btw scummy as per her opinion). If i have ever seen a staged conversation it is the one between Calix and Vivax. Oh my dear god i laughed at it yesterday.
Vivax has simply zero train of thought in anything he has said this game. It is that simple.
I am growing more and more suspicions regarding the hydra. Probably our third mafia right there. Some bullet points:
- The thing i talked about earlier where Regfan's and Gemma's thoughts never even try to meld. It was like they are playing a completely different game by themselves and not even trying to figure out which one is wrong when they have a differing opinion on something. Magically, now, when i point this out, it changes! Except that this doesn't make any sense either since Gemma tried to feed some "you don't probably just know how playing as hydra works" bullshit that doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, if she believes in that, there is no reason to change the way they act. So basically it is just done because someone figured out it is not natural what they were doing, and it is because the only reasons you would want to do that is to either stay on both side of the fences or if "one person fucks up, the other one cleans after".
- Then there is the thing where Gemma calls Calix town because Calix was nice, and me mafia because i was not nice, early on in the game. When Calix answers my case later on (i should also note that Calix never really touches the actual case even, just some random shit about wording and stuff), what's Gemma's opinion... Calix is supertown because Calix is not nice!!!! Yeahhhh, it's quite amusing when supposedly same standards work in the opposite way regading who is the person in question.
- Same with Regfan's read on Calix. The post where Mocsta did go into argument with him earlier today. Regfan doesn't want to lynch Calix because some bs about some three people not being mafia together and some percentage stuff. What is that even, you lynch people who are scummy. If you don't want to lynch someone then you don't think they are scummy. Regfan never even says if he thinks Calix is scummy or not, just some crap that has nothing to do with Calix' affiliation and the conclusion is "not a good lynch". Way to present a "read" without actually saying anything about the person.
- Then there is this TT read. 12 hours ago Gemma literally posted this; "We both felt good about TT at the same time.". Suddenly Gemma heavily dislikes TT, for no apparent reason. Basically the only thing TT has done since 12 hrs ago is agreed with the hydra's read that Calix is not necessarily a good lynch. That is literally the only thing that has changed regarding tictocks reads after Gemma called him town. Conclusion; Holyflare watch out, you see what they are doing?
- I am not sure i believe regfan doesn't have a read on me since basically every game we have been together in he (as town) always claims "rayn is super easy to read when he is town" (which also simply by association means i am easy to read when i am mafia). If that is correct or not, it's irrelevant, it's relevant he believes so regardless how much of time has passed from our last game together.
So yeah, those are my scumreads. I pretend Conversion doesn't exist in the game but he is most likely not mafia anyways.
I simply don't have much to add rn. Also when someone acts like complete ass towards me for no reason at all i am gonna grab my tools and go home. I have better things to do than lose my mental health over some idiot.
Calix is painfully obviously mafia. Vote on Vivax means absolutely nothing since it's probably the best thing to do regardless of Vivax' affiliation. She isn't even trying to do anything after Cake case, simply just nothing, except for looking into lurkers (which also was btw scummy as per her opinion). If i have ever seen a staged conversation it is the one between Calix and Vivax. Oh my dear god i laughed at it yesterday.
Vivax has simply zero train of thought in anything he has said this game. It is that simple.
I am growing more and more suspicions regarding the hydra. Probably our third mafia right there. Some bullet points:
- The thing i talked about earlier where Regfan's and Gemma's thoughts never even try to meld. It was like they are playing a completely different game by themselves and not even trying to figure out which one is wrong when they have a differing opinion on something. Magically, now, when i point this out, it changes!
Except that this doesn't make any sense either since Gemma tried to feed some "you don't probably just know how playing as hydra works" bullshit that doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, if she believes in that, there is no reason to change the way they act. So basically it is just done because someone figured out it is not natural what they were doing, and it is because the only reasons you would want to do that is to either stay on both side of the fences or if "one person fucks up, the other one cleans after".- Then there is the thing where Gemma calls Calix town because Calix was nice, and me mafia because i was not nice, early on in the game. When Calix answers my case later on (i should also note that Calix never really touches the actual case even, just some random shit about wording and stuff), what's Gemma's opinion... Calix is supertown because Calix is not nice!!!! Yeahhhh, it's quite amusing when supposedly same standards work in the opposite way regading who is the person in question.
- Same with Regfan's read on Calix. The post where Mocsta did go into argument with him earlier today. Regfan doesn't want to lynch Calix because some bs about some three people not being mafia together and some percentage stuff. What is that even, you lynch people who are scummy. If you don't want to lynch someone then you don't think they are scummy. Regfan never even says if he thinks Calix is scummy or not, just some crap that has nothing to do with Calix' affiliation and the conclusion is "not a good lynch". Way to present a "read" without actually saying anything about the person.
- Then there is this TT read. 12 hours ago Gemma literally posted this; "We both felt good about TT at the same time.". Suddenly Gemma heavily dislikes TT, for no apparent reason. Basically the only thing TT has done since 12 hrs ago is agreed with the hydra's read that Calix is not necessarily a good lynch. That is literally the only thing that has changed regarding tictocks reads after Gemma called him town. Conclusion; Holyflare watch out, you see what they are doing?
- I am not sure i believe regfan doesn't have a read on me since basically every game we have been together in he (as town) always claims "rayn is super easy to read when he is town" (which also simply by association means i am easy to read when i am mafia). If that is correct or not, it's irrelevant, it's relevant he believes so regardless how much of time has passed from our last game together.
So yeah, those are my scumreads. I pretend Conversion doesn't exist in the game but he is most likely not mafia anyways.
I mean, you trying to say I give no evidence of why you're mafia is just trying to shit on me for no reason and paint me as mafia, when it's clear where your allegiance stands.
Another meta defense? I'm getting sick of this. Why can't anyone just defend their posts that they're making IN THIS GAME instead of expecting me to slog through games from 2012 or whatever?
What's the point of casing people when everyone responds to what I say with "but what about this really old meta though?" and "how dare you scum-read people you've never played with before, you're obviously mafia"?
I too could throw a bunch of old games at you if I really wanted to "prove" I'm town but that's boring and doesn't actually prove anything anyway.
But I give up. I'll just stick with Vivax so I don't have to deal with some bullshit meta defense instead of anything sourced from this particular game.
This doesn't help you, if anything mafia would likely never go back to older games because they simply don't care. While meta can change in different games yes, and it's hard to classify just based on that, it does help when you've played games with others.
I disagree Mafia use meta all the time and for exactly the reasons Calix pointed it. It's easy to point out something that happened in the past as a way to excuse what is happening now, or to use old meta to fabricate a current read.
