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On February 19 2018 17:21 prplhz wrote:
what about making it a no flip game
That'd become a shitfest.
Good idea!
(no sarcasm)
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Have to /out for now.
Will /in again probably next week if it hasn't started by then. But going to be busy for the next few days.
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/in (I'm back)
but the hosty might be /out
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Hi sorry for being late.
I'm town so my posting rhythm should reach critical mass sometime soon I suppose.
I'm moderately caught up and after reading a bunch of posts (of which I'm reading more as I write this up) I think that rsoultin and Moosy are town, and also the volumetric heroes of D1.
For some reason I like the fact DF peaced in just to tell us he's going to read the OP tomorrow. Thanks DF.
Tubesock/AMG/Noobking early interaction could yield scum.
On March 06 2018 11:03 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 09:15 Tubesock wrote:
I am not sure about the mass claiming bit D2 though. I think it would be better for town to have the medics be unknown for a couple cycles before they claim. Well let's not allow ourselves to become distracted by discussion that doesn't need to take place yet. We don't need to decide whether to mass claim on Day 2 until it's Day 2.
On March 06 2018 11:36 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 11:26 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 11:10 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I miss the presence of a rayn-like person plugging me in the butthole and telling me i suck at this game I can start telling you that you suck at this game, if that'll help. You'll have to go somewhere else for the rest of that, though. On March 06 2018 11:08 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I'm pretty sure Fecal was exaggerating by his D2 mass claim. Mass claiming is going to happen but I don't see it happening on D2 unless the game is really easy and we nail mafia really early I dunno, the pre-game discussion sounds to me like people are talking about mass claiming early game and not late game. And now I can't ask them to clarify what they meant, because they either aren't in the game or I can no longer trust them to tell me the truth about it. But speaking of the pre-game discussion, now that I've read through it again, it occurs to me that I don't even know for sure what the setup for the game IS. We had this: On February 19 2018 23:28 Calix wrote:
I'm leaning towards giving mafia another role since people seem to agree that makes the game easier for mafia. and then this: On February 19 2018 23:45 Calix wrote:
Two Roleblockers might be fine then. I'll see what other people think and if nobody has a serious problem with it then I'll change the Mafioso to a PR. and then that was it. So was the setup changed? Am I allowed to ask the Narrator to tell us whether the setup changed? Because if the setup isn't as town-favored as it was initially, that will definitely change my strategy. Didn't you just chastise me for talking about mass claiming strategy? And here you are talking about setup and strategy. Your hypocrisy is delicious.
On March 06 2018 13:59 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 11:36 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 11:26 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 11:10 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I miss the presence of a rayn-like person plugging me in the butthole and telling me i suck at this game I can start telling you that you suck at this game, if that'll help. You'll have to go somewhere else for the rest of that, though. On March 06 2018 11:08 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I'm pretty sure Fecal was exaggerating by his D2 mass claim. Mass claiming is going to happen but I don't see it happening on D2 unless the game is really easy and we nail mafia really early I dunno, the pre-game discussion sounds to me like people are talking about mass claiming early game and not late game. And now I can't ask them to clarify what they meant, because they either aren't in the game or I can no longer trust them to tell me the truth about it. But speaking of the pre-game discussion, now that I've read through it again, it occurs to me that I don't even know for sure what the setup for the game IS. We had this: On February 19 2018 23:28 Calix wrote:
I'm leaning towards giving mafia another role since people seem to agree that makes the game easier for mafia. and then this: On February 19 2018 23:45 Calix wrote:
Two Roleblockers might be fine then. I'll see what other people think and if nobody has a serious problem with it then I'll change the Mafioso to a PR. and then that was it. So was the setup changed? Am I allowed to ask the Narrator to tell us whether the setup changed? Because if the setup isn't as town-favored as it was initially, that will definitely change my strategy. Didn't you just chastise me for talking about mass claiming strategy? And here you are talking about setup and strategy. Your hypocrisy is delicious. He did not chastise you at all. Why are you so pricky?
I can't decide if Tube overreacted here which I'm not sure he did cause choosing the path to conflict isn't really the mafias way. So leaning less towards tube mafia purely from this. Just seemed genuinely pissed that noobking shut him down about something and then started talking about that anyway.
The AMG post initially looks like he wants to rectify the way Tubesock reacts. He drags out the prickly argumentation out for too long for my taste and transforms it into a full fledged scumread a few posts later.
I can't really get behind AMGs reasons to scumread Tube as they are. He possibly went into the discussion with the mindset "I'll take safe sides in a TvT discussion and point at Tube making a mistake" , but since AMG also had to do something out of that to maintain the looks of doing something, he took the only thing he pointed out (prickly Tube) and made a case out of it.
On March 06 2018 15:24 AMG wrote:
Being prickly is scummy. You have to accept that people are going to ping you in this game. A prickly reaction usually comes from someone trying to hide something and reacting poorly.
I don't have an opinion for or against people discussing strategy or mass claiming. I'll be spending my calories focusing on the psychology of players as opposed to trying to game mechanics.
I don't find noobking scummy at all, I'm actually pretty certain he's town
But he actually only votes Tube when Noobking does:
On March 06 2018 20:45 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 18:01 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 17:08 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 17:01 rsoultin wrote:
:/
I'm a bit sad I'm not getting more lynch Damdred support.
Like the pressure on tubesock though so I'm going to try not to sulk too obstructively.
I agree with AMG. It's almost like you don't care to get a read on someone with an opposite opinion of you, tubesock.
I don't think I'd get anything out of a conversation with AMG. Prickly players only scum? That's certainly not my experience at all so we don't have common ground there. And I was more interested in n00bking. Which I'm still deciding on. I still don't like hypocrisy. I think his nitpicking is his way of digging deep for more understanding so I think it's towny. Ugh. I don't like any of that post. Being "more interested in n00bking" isn't a good reason to avoid any discussion with AMG. You can talk to 2 players at once, you know. Keeping a singular focus on one topic helps to keep you from needing to develop opinions on any other subject, and that's not good. And even if you thought you had "no common ground" with him about what makes players prickly (and even if you thought discussing the disagreement with him wouldn't help you determine whether he actually sees it differently, or is just pretending to) you could have just talked to him about something else instead. Like...you could have talked to him about the thing you were "more interested in." ME! Why not ask him why he has the townread on me? He might share something that changes your mind. Or you might share something that changes his. Having NO desire to discuss me with someone who takes the opposite opinion just makes it look like you already know my allegiance.'splain yourself. ##Vote: Tubesock Basically, this. ##Vote: TubesockBottom line, i'm 1/13th of the game and you don't seem to care to engage me, I'd like to know why. And saying we disagree on one point is absolutely not an answer.
I don't even know how his bottom line relates to anything he said before about being prickly.
Hitting post, voting amg and resuming :>
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The "HF fakeclaims as town and mafia" endless discussion between tube and noob annoys me but at least makes noob appear townie cause he's so stubborn about that little wording detail. One more out of the way for today.
On March 06 2018 15:47 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 15:24 AMG wrote:
Being prickly is scummy. You have to accept that people are going to ping you in this game. A prickly reaction usually comes from someone trying to hide something and reacting poorly.
I don't have an opinion for or against people discussing strategy or mass claiming. I'll be spending my calories focusing on the psychology of players as opposed to trying to game mechanics.
I don't find noobking scummy at all, I'm actually pretty certain he's town
You get a cookie.
Handing cookies to the wrong people? Why did he get a cookie?
On March 06 2018 15:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 15:55 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 15:30 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 15:18 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 14:42 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 12:51 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 11:28 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 11:09 n00bKing wrote:On March 06 2018 09:16 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 09:11 Fecalfeast wrote:
Honestly hf claiming a role doesn't mean anything he fakes as town or mafia agreed, I think he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia. What are you "agreeing" with? Because what Fecalfeast said and what you said are NOT the same. I agree that HF can fakeclaim as either alignment, that I don't believe that him claiming should be alignment indicative in any way. Alright, thanks for making that clear. Because obviously there's a ton of difference between Fecalfeast saying "he fakes as town or mafia" and you saying "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia." I must be obtuse. I don't get why it's all that different in the context "is HolyFlare town for claiming" between "he fakes as town or mafia" or "he would claim just as easily as town medic as he would mafia"? Although, I meant to add "mafia medic" in there. What obvious difference do you see? The obvious difference is that Fecalfeast said HF makes fake claims as both Town and Mafia, while you said that HF could just as easily make the claim as Town medic or Mafia. If he makes the claim as Town medic, it's not FAKE. So what you did is take something Fecalfeast said, twisted it into something he DIDN'T say, and then "agreed" with it. That's why I forced you into telling us whether or not you agree with what he ACTUALLY said, and not just what you ACTED like he said. You told me you do agree with what he actually said, so I thanked you for your answer. I didn't twist anything. They're two separate statements. That's the point! They're two separate statements! So when he says what he said, and you quote it and say "agreed," followed by what you said, that's like someone saying "Tuesday is the best day of the week" and a 2nd person quoting it and responding with "Agreed, today is Tuesday." Those aren't the same thing. Are they agreeing with the 1st statement and also adding a 2nd statement? Did they misunderstand the 1st statement? Are they misrepresenting the 1st statement to mean something it didn't? (this one is what it looks like to me at first glance). So I made you take a stance on whether you agreed with his original statement. That removes the option for you to later say you "just misunderstood." That would be HUGELY important if HF were to later flip Red, because it would offer tons of context on whether you were trying to protect him. You've clarified that you agree with the original statement, were also adding a 2nd statement, so I have my answer, and we can move on. Make sense? If I recall correctly this is exactly how the old n00bKing I knew of old was like. Always fussing with fine details I would just gloss over
Is this a townread? Cause I just wrote up the same and it makes me townread him.
I don't understand this whole thingy about tubesock calling HF medic. Seems like he's being misrepped since he also clarified it sufficiently in my opinion. It does make noobking come out as townie but why is tubesock mafia for any of this?
The synopsis was that HF can fakeclaim mafia as town or medic where did tubesock mean it in any other way, poor wording excluded?
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Follow up by AMG looks better at glance given he sticks his head in many different places and generally gives off a vibe of wanting to do stuff which is a plus for him on D1. Doesn't allow me to exclude him as mafia though.
I don't see what would have required catching up in regards to his initial tubesock read however. It remains a read that is essentially based on Tube being prickly entirely, except that the actual vote happens only when Noobking votes.
His initial impression that Tube is prickly goes from being an observation to an explanation for why it is scummy to a vote for other reasons.
It looks like he reacts to his own posts to keep up a narrative in this case.
I see it like this could have happened:
Townie overreacts to other townie, AMG spots possible fault by TS, calls him prickly but doesn't go with it anywhere. So he needs to make a followup posts telling us that he thinks it's a mafia trait cause the previous post alone in the room would look bad.
Only when Noobking attacks Tubesock AMG decides to vote for him, and he does it by rehashing/agreeing with what Noobking said.
So AMG was kind of looking for reasons to get onto Tubesock purely for the reason he called him prickly already, and since his own reason didn't get enough pull, he only felt like he had the opportunity to do so when Noobking voted first.
This is summed up what's not right with AMG in my opinion.
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Moosy can you explain to me why you thought Damdred was town at that point?
On March 06 2018 16:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I thought Damdred was pretty town so far what makes you think he's scum?
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On March 08 2018 00:19 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 00:13 Vivax wrote:Moosy can you explain to me why you thought Damdred was town at that point? On March 06 2018 16:00 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I thought Damdred was pretty town so far what makes you think he's scum? + Show Spoiler +On March 07 2018 17:34 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 14:42 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 06:32 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 06:04 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 05:57 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 05:53 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 05:48 MoosyDoosy wrote:
If anything, rsoultin changes her reads to conform to Damdred's over time. Considering how hard Damdred townread rsoultin I think she's metagaming him to seem townie and working around his reads because she knows he can read her.
If rsoul were scum and "knows damdred can read her" then why would she draw his eyes to her by making him her early scumread and pushing for his lynch? Metagame. Damdred said this is what he'd expect from town rsoultin so she might be doing it as scum to make him she's town. *shrug* You can ask Damdred whether he thinks that's something she's likely to try. Anyway, she seems willing to engage with you (even while simultaneously saying there's no way you could get her lynched) so feel free to keep needling her (she's at least giving us plenty of content to try and nail her with later, if she IS scum) but don't let yourself fall into the "tunnel" she talked about. You haven't placed a vote, right? If the day ended in 2 hours instead of 26 hours, who do you think should get the noose? meh. I'm holding my vote until Damdred comes back and responds to my thoughts. But I am probably going to vote for Tubesock here. There aren't really any other convincing arguments for me other than him and my own suspicions on rsoultin. For anyone to purposely be "holding their vote" at this stage just seems dumb to me. If Tubesock would be your lynch, put your vote on him. If it would be someone else, put your vote on them instead. If you're Town, you should want the voting record to be reflective of people's intentions. I'm tired of reading about what you kinda/sorta/maybe want to do, except that you have to talk to daddy damdred first. no can do buddy sorry I do things my own way. Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 15:42 n00bKing wrote:On March 07 2018 12:39 MoosyDoosy wrote:On March 07 2018 12:34 Tubesock wrote:
I don't understand why you towned Damdred for that "Good man, it won't be me (but it was)" comment. Can you expand that please? Add this question too to the list of things Tube seems like he's just throwing out trying to make stick. I'm going to leave to finish my essay I actually have to do by tonight but I want feedback from other people on what they think. If anyone legitimately wants me to explain this read though also, just say so and I will when I get back. Sure, I'll raise my hand for this one. If you think explaining it will be counter-productive for the Town, say that. Otherwise...stop avoiding Tubesock's question? The post was really light and jokey and metagamey and toney which are all things I see town Damdred doing. It's a tonal read so that's about as good as the description gets but I've actually played a fair amount of games with Damdred and this seems town Damdred. Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 16:45 AMG wrote:On March 07 2018 15:51 n00bKing wrote:
Meanwhile,
Does anyone agree or disagree with rsoul's assessment that the silence from Vivax and Kelsier (and especially Vivax) is more alignment-indicative than it is for chaoser? Does anyone even know chaoser?
I think it's also worth discussing whether any of those players are strong Town assets *when* they are Town. For example, let's say people generally agree that Vivax is more likely than the average player, to no-show a thread while Scum. If it just so happens that he had done it as Town this time, would we be shooting ourselves in the foot in a major way by mislynching him, and losing the services of Town Vivax, cuz maybe he was going to show up later and be a Scum-wrecking machine? Or is it big upside and only small downside? And then same question regarding our other 2 no-shows. Chaoser has been on this forum even longer than I have. Back when PM games used to be the norm and you used to get clues from the host every cycle. Hes pretty good/reasonable when he can resist the urge to troll, but that urge strikes him pretty often. chaoser sounds exactly like me. When is this man entering the thread I need to meet him.
Thanks. And you would stick to that read at this point? Cause besides you playing a fair amount of games with him and him seeming town to you, there really is no argument in the room for Damdred being town that anyone else could see except from your experienced point of view?
For all I know, Damdred can still be mafia and what he's posted so far doesn't particularly sway me either way.
On March 07 2018 02:56 Damdred wrote:
It was more boring then I originally thought it would be, in that regard i'm slightly...disappointed. But Rsoultin is more than likely town, perhaps hard town in my mind at present. The way she read me seemed like a way she would do in town, and honestly even though I am not quite the player I was she would still like to interact with me then piling on early, also tone is pretty good and not pestering HF to get him to tilt is also a point in her favor.
Never doubt this read my friends.
Also AMG and Moosey are more than likely town in this situation. Both seem open, inquisitive and a good tone. Also Moosey I believe town read me early which I liked! (I like it when people come up with interesting reasons to townread someone as pro town ^_-, even if I could fake it as scum).
I actually don't like FF at this point so far, his tone seemed a bit off earlier and sort of like he was just trying to post to post a bit? But it was still early and its just a lean.
Tube I am not sure of, this slip I don't really buy and don't want to lynch him for that so far ehhhh.
This post could come from mafia. 7 lines explaining his town reads, 3 explaining his scum reads. Easy to just get cred points by townreading people and spending as little as possible on his scumreads.
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EBWOP:
Not even his scumreads, he says FF is just a lean and Tube isn't a scumread, it's a null and he doesn't look at him particularly well aside from the slip that HF wanted to sell.
Which takes me to that (a post on the backburner):
On March 06 2018 16:24 Holyflare wrote:
Tubesock has called me medic!
Not just town or mafia. Medic. Let that sink in.
##vote tubesock
On March 06 2018 16:30 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2018 16:27 Tubesock wrote:On March 06 2018 08:47 Holyflare wrote:
I'm a medic. Uhm...you called you a medic.... Yes and as noobking says someone said I can do that as either alignment or any role but you have specifically said I'm a medic. There's a big difference from saying what I said means nothing to saying what I said means I am medic but either alignment. It appears like you know I'm medic but then add a hedge on top as a "oh I don't know" to fit in. It's a weird thought process comparatively to hf can be anything.
Why shouldn't he call you town or mafia medic after you claimed medic?
Why would mafia be more prone to take your claim at face value?
If you are not one of them and Tube is, none of his information should push him towards believing you more or less.
Or can you explain why believing your claim is more likely to happen to mafia who should pay attention to not let slip that they know someone is town.
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On March 07 2018 05:12 darthfoley wrote:
Okay i've caught up.
AMG and n00b are pretty townie ATM. I think Damdred is kinda townie right now actually, for once. Maybe rsoultin too, because I agree with her about Tubesock. He might be mafia, but not for the reasons HF is pushing. The medic thing is really NAI even if it's "strange"
Lynch pool of prplhz, FF and Tubesock for the time being. I really didn't like how FF announced his first read, then felt the need to explain why he's scumreading prplhz in the next post. I think you either 1) do both in one post or 2) announce your scum read, then explain it if asked. Just felt a tad like he's trying to make sure everyone knows he has reasoning behind his scumread, if that makes sense.
A loveless post.
This dude and this dude are town atm.
I think this dude is kinda townie right now actually, for once [are you sure you didn't forget to add anything, df]
Maybe this dudess is is town too because I agree with her about that dude.
Lynch these three dudes for the time being. Here's an explanation for one of them: I didn't like that he didn't post both read and reasons in one post [which could be said for AMG].
Peace out.
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FF what's with your prplhz SR? Care to flesh it out?
For all I know he took a stance similar to mine in regards to the AMG tubesock discussion.
His filter doesn't make me lean either way. Why you?
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Fefe is notoriously lazy though :|
What makes him lazy mafia over lazy town here?
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Rsoultin, did you take a look at DF in the meantime?
Reading through moosy I noticed he pointed out how you had DF on the radar for his entrance but I don't see much investigation into him afterwards even now that he's been in the spotlight for a while (hopefully I didn't miss anything).
To answer your previous question regarding my reads on you and Moosy:
I ruled you out based on tone and amount of content when I started playing and skimmed a bit. You bossing around the thread and Moosys general involvedness.
Just some heuristic early townreads to get started and reduce the pool of peeps I'm looking into. Those are superficial reads so prone to change as the game goes on.
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On March 08 2018 06:03 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 00:08 Vivax wrote:
Follow up by AMG looks better at glance given he sticks his head in many different places and generally gives off a vibe of wanting to do stuff which is a plus for him on D1. Doesn't allow me to exclude him as mafia though.
I don't see what would have required catching up in regards to his initial tubesock read however. It remains a read that is essentially based on Tube being prickly entirely, except that the actual vote happens only when Noobking votes.
His initial impression that Tube is prickly goes from being an observation to an explanation for why it is scummy to a vote for other reasons.
It looks like he reacts to his own posts to keep up a narrative in this case.
I see it like this could have happened:
Townie overreacts to other townie, AMG spots possible fault by TS, calls him prickly but doesn't go with it anywhere. So he needs to make a followup posts telling us that he thinks it's a mafia trait cause the previous post alone in the room would look bad.
Only when Noobking attacks Tubesock AMG decides to vote for him, and he does it by rehashing/agreeing with what Noobking said.
So AMG was kind of looking for reasons to get onto Tubesock purely for the reason he called him prickly already, and since his own reason didn't get enough pull, he only felt like he had the opportunity to do so when Noobking voted first.
This is summed up what's not right with AMG in my opinion. You completely overlook the reason I take issue with tubesock which I've gone over two or three times now. His pricklyness catches my eye, as did him having a read that conflicted with mine, so I challenged his read. He refused to discuss anything with me at all, like he didn't give a shit about my alignment and had no drive to find out why I had a different opinion to him.
Except all of this happened not at once but you went from prickly->didn't fight your read->disengaged in your argumentation where you placed your vote at the final one after noobking did.
So I can see you as mafia just building on your previous posts reacting to what you wrote to create a tubesock scumread which was consistent with what you already wrote, especially cause of your decision on when to place the vote (when another one already did)
_____
I am actually open to the idea I'm wrong on either of you atm and after reading a bit of tube (since he talks about himself instead of finding mafia most of the time, but could be cause he's been in the defensive).
And cause I'm always hesitant to lynch possible assets D1 I'm checking if there might be other ones worth lynching over df.
Since you are so hung up on tube though I'd expect you to bring forward something more than what you already have and your read on him hasn't evolved much from that point onwards.
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Disregard this
Since you are so hung up on tube though I'd expect you to bring forward something more than what you already have and your read on him hasn't evolved much from that point onwards.
I just remembered you townread him afterwards for some reason. Kind of interesting that you type this though:
You completely overlook the reason I take issue with tubesock
Why take? I thought you changed him back to town?
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DF your odds decrease drastically as time moves on where you don't try to find a lynch that is better than you. As in: Go scumhunt right now and convince me and HF that someone is more mafia than you.
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If I'm already talking about Tube and AMG and your response is just "I'm a medic no lyncherino pls" then I don't know how to spark interest into you finding a better lynch other than yourself.
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EPT
