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[N] Mafia Mafia Mafia Mafia - Page 39

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 16:55 GMT
#761
well lets let him respond to us,

So what do you think of kel df (pssst conversion)
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 16:57 GMT
#762
On November 21 2017 20:00 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 06:07 darthfoley wrote:
Correct. Technically you didn't 180. You bandwagoned

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 06:05 Stanislav Petrov wrote:
So some are calling me mafia due to my suspicious 180 and others call me town because my suspicious 180 is just to suspicious for mafia to do. I feel like you don't understand what 180 means. A 180 for me would be saying I have townread on darthfoley and then saying I have a mafiaread on darthfoley. Or saying I have a mafiaread on damdred and then a townread on damdred.

What you're actually referring to as my 180 is that I on page 5 wanted to lynch damdred because he was the most likely to be mafia with the information available at that time and in my next post on page 13. 8 pages later stating that I thought another person was a better candidate.

It is in the wrong order but this looks bad for darthfoley. Soft lies to push people is bad.


Town!Koshi never soft pushes people like this. His filter is ass cheeks and he tried hammering me (which obviously didn't work, oops!)

Scum
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:00 GMT
#763
On November 21 2017 05:25 ruXxar wrote:
You know holy flare is gonna show up and vote for DF and then its kaput


if you really thought this, why did you stay on Stan when it was clear he wasn't going to be lynched?
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:00 GMT
#764
I'm concerned that ruxxar has me in his pocket
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
November 21 2017 17:16 GMT
#765
On November 22 2017 01:55 Damdred wrote:
well lets let him respond to us,

So what do you think of kel df (pssst conversion)


We should probably pressure Kelsier to not play so anti-town.

Not going to rehash the case, but OMGUS deflection, voting off wagon and going AFK and telling town not to screw up, focusing on town "screwing up" instead of doing anything then AFKing again is horrible town play.

his "lynch between oats and tw" without any follow up (especially when oats picked up the pace) is just super bad town, if not scum.

how about you?
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 17:17 GMT
#766
Rux could be scum but lets stay focused and talk about a person a time df.

Koshi is problematic, even with hi knowinf there are three scum which he cant know btw.

He isnt doing anything and he just floundering around the lynch. He is worth keeping in the lynch pool.

So right now this is where you are df: Stan/Koshi/Rux(?) and who else?
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
November 21 2017 17:18 GMT
#767
also he has a lot of scum reads that he can push/pressure but he chooses to just AFK. that's just weird to me. he wants to lynch into oats/tw/me/ruxxar, and instead of gaining more knowledge/spurring discussion around this, he just goes AFK

idk man. my gut says annoying town player
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 17:23 GMT
#768
On November 22 2017 02:16 Conversion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2017 01:55 Damdred wrote:
well lets let him respond to us,

So what do you think of kel df (pssst conversion)


We should probably pressure Kelsier to not play so anti-town.

Not going to rehash the case, but OMGUS deflection, voting off wagon and going AFK and telling town not to screw up, focusing on town "screwing up" instead of doing anything then AFKing again is horrible town play.

his "lynch between oats and tw" without any follow up (especially when oats picked up the pace) is just super bad town, if not scum.

how about you?


Nows the perfect time to rehash cases to figure things out buddy.

But as for kel there is little to go on, he is playing someehat anti town. But hes doing it so overtly that I sort of think he is town being meh.

His off the wagon vote flew in the face of everythinf going on which made hin stand out. He went against thread sentiment a decent amount so far. And he had actual thoughts, some were bad though so there is that.

Pkus his i stant reaction to me not having a read on him felt organic and right coming from kel and if he was scum I believe he would try to win me over instead of thinking i was sxum. But he dropped that so it is a 60/40 town for mw atm.
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:37 GMT
#769
On November 22 2017 02:17 Damdred wrote:
Rux could be scum but lets stay focused and talk about a person a time df.

Koshi is problematic, even with hi knowinf there are three scum which he cant know btw.

He isnt doing anything and he just floundering around the lynch. He is worth keeping in the lynch pool.

So right now this is where you are df: Stan/Koshi/Rux(?) and who else?

Nah i'm probably being too paranoid about Ruxx for now. I'm just concerend that he was so confident that I was town yesterday.

I think TW has a good chance of being scum. When I pressed him for reads he timidly committed to Stan having the worst filter.

On November 21 2017 00:40 Tumblewood wrote:
ok, i'll humor you.
worst filter in the game, palmar aside, is stan's. don't like the jokey-seeming damdred read being actual, or his post on me
i can't talk for much longer (i'll be on at least half an hour before deadline, pinkie promise). ok bye


This is about as wishy washy as you can get.

On November 21 2017 05:00 Tumblewood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 04:34 Palmar wrote:
I like this conversion guy. Think I’ll sheep him

nah, i don't believe palmar comes back to the thread an hour before deadline and conversion is the guy he sheeps


He then says this, which makes it sound like he's scum reading Palmar. Yet he's fine following Palmar's lynch train. I tried to keep the wagon on Stan and was telling people to get off the HF wagon, but TW was fine with whatever.

On November 21 2017 05:23 Tumblewood wrote:
yeah i'd prefer hf over df. his reasoning on rux is pretty bs imo, especially with the calling ve conftown thing i yelled at him about


All of a sudden he's completely fine with lynching HF and forgot the whole Palmar angle. It just seems to me like he was looking for a reason to get off of Stan and couldnt switch to me.

Need to look at other people who switched or stayed on me. Always hard to know if people were afk or lurking
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:39 GMT
#770
On November 22 2017 02:16 Conversion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2017 01:55 Damdred wrote:
well lets let him respond to us,

So what do you think of kel df (pssst conversion)


We should probably pressure Kelsier to not play so anti-town.

Not going to rehash the case, but OMGUS deflection, voting off wagon and going AFK and telling town not to screw up, focusing on town "screwing up" instead of doing anything then AFKing again is horrible town play.

his "lynch between oats and tw" without any follow up (especially when oats picked up the pace) is just super bad town, if not scum.

how about you?


Especially considering neither Oats nor TW were ever up for a lynch. I thought Kelsier did a pretty impressive on Stan; he went from pretty confident he was mafia to pretty confident he was mafia in not a long span of time
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:39 GMT
#771
Who were the people that refused to commit to the Stan wagon and kept pressure on afk town!HF?

It was 5-5-3 but Stan never got above 5
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
November 21 2017 17:42 GMT
#772
Damdred who are you scum reading atm?
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 17:52 GMT
#773
On November 22 2017 02:42 darthfoley wrote:
Damdred who are you scum reading atm?


Stan/Koshi

TW on a lean

Happa

after this I have reasons to think most people are town
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 17:53 GMT
#774
On November 22 2017 02:39 darthfoley wrote:
Who were the people that refused to commit to the Stan wagon and kept pressure on afk town!HF?

It was 5-5-3 but Stan never got above 5


Boson, happa, palmar
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
November 21 2017 18:03 GMT
#775
Maybe im giving bos to big a free pass, he said he would consolidate om stan to save df but with minutes to go hes not making much of a move even when people he thinks are scum (oats) are hard pushimg df.

Its strange some parts of his filter
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 21 2017 18:08 GMT
#776
On November 21 2017 09:36 Conversion wrote:
alright before I catch up I want to apologize to Boson

work was pissing me off and I should have just calmed down before posting

going to catch up now


Np man, happens.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 21 2017 18:11 GMT
#777
On November 21 2017 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 10:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
What you think of TW?

hes town


Care to provide justification? I think he and Koshi are very nice lynch bait but they also kinda look like mafia too.
Hapahauli, Koshi, TW are slow-activity posters that we will have a hard time with due to lack of content. They can't ALL be town... can they? -_-
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 21 2017 18:19 GMT
#778
@Chez

Thanks for this, much feels, but what exactly was the point? It's like the second and third time you are pointing me to previous posts that I don't understand the why. It does not look like you are scumhunting.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2017 14:45 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 04:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Stutters
He has been fishing roles all game? I don't remember this, can you please find where? The only thing I can recall is him interpreting a dubious thrawn quote to say why he thinks thrawn is blue.

You basically said what's been said all game. YH uses WIFOM, is inconsistent, keeps changing his mind without specifying why. This to me is very scummy, as I've made clear for quite some time. But I will one-up this argument, I think I found something that, in my opinion will give a strong case against him.




Case against YourHarry

I will not go over again how stupid and confusing and useless his posting is, how that looks scummy, etc.
Ladies and gentlemen, the first thing YH says:

On August 15 2012 11:48 YourHarry wrote:
My meta:

My first game, Mafia XX, where I was vanilla town

My second game XXI. Again, vanilla townie.

My third game. First half of the game, I am mafia goon. The game restarted and I drew vanilla townie.

To summarize my meta, in the first 2.5 games, I am quick to make accusations and switch my vote players with little explanation. I decided to change my meta in game 3 where I drew vanilla townie. I played more conservative to avoid suspicion.

I am not sure which meta I will choose this game


I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .
I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .
I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .

He clearly indicated that he wants to follow a certain meta. Apparently, he has already decided which one it is. He is thriving on confusion. Look at some of his quotes from previous games:

+ Show Spoiler +

Release, I am not Grush.

I didn't particularly find lazer monkey's post scummy. This is a newbie game. He is simply providing some guidelines on what townies should avoid - since (I assume) that his previous games have been tainted by vanilla towns claiming power roles.

BTW, I am not OMGUSing Jingle. I just find it difficult to understand why he finds me scummy, since I think I explained myself and answered all of his questions. When someone is focusing his accusation on a player based on reasonable evidence, that someone could be town or scum.

But when someone is stubborn about his accusation on a player, even after the accused player adequately explained himself, I think that someone is likely to be scum. Maybe he is not satisfied with my answers. If so, Jingle, please tell me what you still think I am scum.

Here, someone may question whether my initial vote against Hopeless also makes me scummy for above reason. But as I explained, I don't particularly find him scummy and my initial attempt to incite responses from him and others did partially succeed - mostly in the forms of accusations toward me.

##Unvote

##Vote Jingle

Release:

I maintain that it was not an OMGUS battle, at least from my perspective. I had valid reason, at least from what little was available at the time, to suspect Jingle. And if Jingle is scum, my quick reconciliation is not necessarily scummy. At best, it's WIFOM. One can argue that scums would be hesitant to dismiss each other's scuminess, in fear that 1) obvious buddying may make both of them suspicious, exactly how you are suspecting both of us 2) other's scum flip will incriminate them.

Either way, my actions on end of day 1 to place the one of the deciding votes on Hopeless (especially when I previously expressed my opinion that I didn't think hopeless was particularly scummy, I could have easily justified my vote against someone else) and my willingness to vote against Jingle now should make me unlikely to be scum.

Also, in regards to miller providing a difficulty for town victory: miller counters mafia role cop and detective is soft countered by miller. Mafia role cop is gone and detective is still alive. So, miller's value to town is at extreme minimum. Of course, if detective was nonexistant, miller would be as good as vanilla townie.


The reason why medic shouldn't claim is obvious. Night2, the scum would roleblock medic and nightkill the detective. Medic role claiming does not allow us to gather any additional information on alignment of other players. However, this means that we must come up with a consensus on who we want to lynch way prior to the deadline so that medic does have a chance to roleclaim if somehow he gets picked to be lynched.

The reason for power role claiming immediately if they received the positive result is also evident. This is because what we will do today would be clearly decided: lynch whoever received the positive result. This also allows medic to anonymously protect the powerrole who got the positive result.

The reason for claiming in order is because we don't want two power roles to reveal their identity unless it gives us additional information. This prevents second power role role claiming just in case they targeted the same player at night. I think detective claiming first makes sense, because it is a more important role - so this allows medic to protect him at night.




This is some quotes from his previous game as townie. Notice the difference? He still throws information around a bit, but notice how it is toned down and how much more reasonable he seems.

One of the first things I have said in this game is that analyzing meta is weak and doesn't constitute arguments. However, YourHarry has been constantly playing the meta game, and even said so himself in the beggining of the game. He has decided he wants to be as confusing as possible, as random, as wishy-washy as he can.

Another thing that I noticed is generally not done is analyzing the nk's. Oh, Jhuyt just died, but he was such a strong scum suspect. O well, WIFOM, scum wants us to think that blah blah blah. Not in YourHarry's case. The only consistent thing he's done is be confusing. I'm sure we can all agree with that.

I raise now two points:
1) Why would this be the meta to go for a town YourHarry? Isn't it weird how much better his play was as townie in past games? Why would town Harry want to be as confusing as possible?
2) Jhuyt nk was confusing as hell. This entirely fits YH's profile this game. I cannot for the life of me come up with a better reason to kill JHuyt other than just try to confuse town. Since YH right now is confusion in person, this raises an uncanny coincidence.

But Z-BosoN! 2) is WIFOM and analyzing meta is weak!
Well, imaginary doubting friend, I don't think that this applies here. YH is strictly playing a meta game, and not ONCE did he abandon it. He's drowning in WIFOM, but I doubt that he would have considered this when deciding who a scum YH would want to kill, because up until now, all we've done is analyze the garbage he jams on his keyboard, but not the overall picture. Let's stop wasting time trying to think what a scum Harry would do, and think more about how a scum Harry would act.

So there it is folks, I think this makes a lot of sense, and should give you one more powerful reason as to why YH is SCUM!. Think about it and tell me what you guys think. I think this is the best option right now, I can't think of a stronger reason to lynch someone else.

##Vote YourHarry


You were right that he was mafia.





On November 21 2017 14:19 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 09:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
On November 21 2017 09:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Chez really?


Elimination I guess. He may have been busy irl, but today was a total no show for him.

He also went through the trouble of finding a particular post I made in 2013 where I was defending him. That can be interpreted either way, either as a mafia brag or as just a random thing that any Chez would do.

He mentioned he was telling me this so as to not get shot by mafia and not to look too townie, but his non-factor today would have been enough for that. Dunno.

It's ok Boson!!!! I'm going make tonight. You have to make the mafia think you want to lynch in the morrow. I can crazy by myself!! I can make them think they can lynch me. I love you boson!!! Wounds from friends can be trusted. I see you accuse me to protects me.. I understand.. You're a great friend.


I love you too man, but my heart is heavy. I really don't know where your loyalties lie. You aren't getting shot today I can tell you that. Why are you still going on about that? What is the meaning of it all?


Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 07:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
On July 26 2013 07:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
Z-boson, you think Koshi and Malango are scum because their play is very bad for town. I can agree with this in some ways. However, a big part of my problems with both Koshi and Malango being scum is that their play is really bonkers if they are scum. Try to analyze their actions from scum PoV and not only town PoV and see if you see what I see!


No, I think Malongo's play is very bad for town, and I haven't read koshi's filter yet.

Like I said, I originially thought Malongo's play to be weird-as-fuck to make from a scum POV.
However, remember Chezinu from nuclear mafia? Nuking MZ,a townie looking dude, for little reason? I thought that same thing, and disregarded any anti-town play coming up from chezinu. You can't base too much off of one action.

What I do know is that Malongo's play is 100% anti-town, and thus town will benefit from killing him, regardless of his alignment. And who knows, he might actually flip scum.

Think gumshoe from Nuclear, WIFOM ninja-voting. I do not regret that lynch. Same logic imo.

I've played in a game once where it ended up with grush and BillMurray (two vets who are pretty trolly and useless) in the endgame, with DarthPunk as scum. It was sad to see town ignore an uncounterclaimed cop's reads leading to the endgame and then losing, despite the game already been solved. Don't you agree, ShiaoPi? (he was the cop)

Anyways, my point is that D1 is likely a mislynch, so lets mislynch someone who we know is bad for town.

This will be the case unless Malongo decides to post and contribute with anything useful.


If I were a bunker, I would be a bank.


Is this how scum Chez acts?
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 21 2017 18:26 GMT
#779
On November 21 2017 17:22 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2017 09:40 Conversion wrote:
tbh that hf lynch was a total crapshoot and just makes wveryone (including me) who lynched scummy. I should have used my head and realized that df dying or stan dying was the best outcome since it gives us info

It only really makes TW scummy for his weird strategy bullshit and hesitancy around the vote.

People keep forgetting that it's townies who do retarded shit and run around like headless chicken. Who do you think is more likely to jump on my terrible wagon that mafia knows is town?

Suddenly an experienced player brim filled with confidence starts yelling at everyone in the thread to lynch some dude. Who is more likely to blindly follow, mafia (who knows I'm wrong) or town (who's just looking for a lynch.... any lynch).

I'm inclined to believe most of the people who followed me are town.

I'm kinda upgrading Oats to town too, but I'm definitely missing at least one mafia in my town reads (as I always do). But that's mostly fine because it's higher % chance of success by hunting mafia in my scumreads.


At least the ones that did so immediately.

Some were a little more hesitant.

On November 21 2017 05:25 Tumblewood wrote:
imma hold out in case someone comes in last second but at :28 i'm switching to hf, a#uming nothing changes


But I agree. Scum are generally more inertial when it comes to moving votes around. People with parked votes on DF:

VisceraEyes, Chezinu, Stanislav Petrov, Koshi

People with parked votes on Stan:

ruxxar

We have to be careful though, as inactivity does not imply scum. Don't really know what the point of this post is. I need to read more.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
November 21 2017 18:28 GMT
#780
On November 21 2017 08:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm pretty sure mafiaHapa doesn't "test" townies, but anyone is free to debunk my feelings there if there's hard evidence to the contrary.



On November 21 2017 20:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like....Hapa is really confusing in a really mafia sort of way. He noticed the same thing I noticed about darthfoley, which made me think DF was mafia, and seemed to make him think DF was mafia. However he then comes in and says it's some sort of test? Like, a bait and switch sort of thing? It's just way more likely that he's not reading the game at all and doesn't care. And that's mafia Hapa to me.


Did you not know of this information before? Why does this come to light all of a sudden?
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