Newbie Student Mafia XXVI - Page 24

On June 05 2017 05:14 Vivax wrote:


No I'm not getting pushed into arguing through association just cause you want it.
My arguments for either of you being mafia are to be treated as your alignments being independent from each other.

The reason you're mafia is that you are just trying to be in my way when I'm obviously town and trying to direct the attention to something else.

On June 05 2017 05:11 Vivax wrote:
Ritoky why is PB town? You only mentioned him being less definitive and ended up TRing him, is that all there is to it? So far you're avoiding to talk about him when I try to stir up discussion about him

On June 05 2017 05:16 Holyflare wrote:


your whole fucking case on BH being mafia is that he had the opportunity to solve the game but didn't

but he's never done that and YOU KNOW IT

scummy fuck jesus christ

On April 22 2015 13:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Damdred is a solid lynch today. His posts don't show a mindset of someone trying to sovle the game.

Let's take a look at how things start off. The game begins, and Damdred starts off with some typical troll posts that you see at the start of games:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117712
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24117713

which are unmeaningful. A page or two later, Damdred starts complaining about votes being thrown around (link) and says he hates it. He doesn't explicitly state that he thinks it's a bad idea, but there you go. Then, he says he hasn't read the game, then, he votes me (link) for "not playing" when the game is at its very outset. This is almost the definition of a vote being "thrown around", something that damdred hates. Then, he says he thinks I'm scum (link) in response to someone saying he needs to play, even though he is supposedly town and admits taht he hasn't played ("I'll play don't worry"). So,w hat's Damdred even thinking here?

Like, the people who come in later and want to policy me for having an excuse, sure, that's fine. The people who hate me for not posting for 24 hours, I get them. These are all actually reasonable reasons to scumread me. It is literally Classic Blazinghand play to use an IRL excuse to not play. (I would note, by the way, that I merely asked for more time, something easily attained in this game-- surely there's no problem there. This isn't a traditional deadline game). Regardless of their own skills, people can reasonably say that me posting after 18 hours saying "haha IRL reasonz duderz" is classic scum Blazinghand. And it is.

But what's Damdred doing here?

and then, look at this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24118610

Damdy posts a list post here, in which he states that I'm scum and he would vote for woS, and various other thoughts. Do we see any progression up to this? Does this actually do anything to help anyone? Of course not. Does he have questions for others, does he want to look at the game? No, he does not. This isn't Damdred pushing his ideas, this isn't Damdred trying to convince peopel to vote me even, it's just... filler. And he even calls it silly. That doesn't make it not scummy, that he calls it silly.

He later comes, and uh, asks himself some questions (link). The fact that he asks himself the questions is like, minorly townie I guess since he's having fun. I don't think it really makes him town though.

now he goes calling me scum based on me being "active elsewhere", (link) which seems pretty strange to me given that the only place I was posting (IIRC) was posting the D1 post to start the newbie game, which was actually before the start of Hapa's game. If I'm really active elsewhere, Damdred, why not bring exampels? Why not quote or link the posts I'm making elsewhere, or whatever? Now maybe it's against your ethics or whatever, but wait a second, clearly it's NOT since you mentioned it. So, another accusation with no oomph, more statements without real backup. Let's take a look at Damdy's post in more depths and let's see if he's actually contributing here, or just making noise.




This is nothing. This is like, not even trying to scumhunt. First off, I don't see any actual mention of games. What experience? Maybe it's just a light meta read of trfel, but where did this come from? Even a mention of like "when I played with him in cell and he was scum there" or whatever (as I think Damdred says later in his filter about me) would make sense, but we don't see anything. Also worth noting here that this read isn't something you'd capitalize on. In fact, this entire paragraph is just scummier. "Towards the bottom of null" is like, the least read you can give someone that will most likely make me think you're scum.

Here's what this looks like to me. Damdy wants to lynch trfel, maybe later, so he can't be seen actively defending trrfel without getting some heat. He doesn't want to lynch trfel yet though, he's hoping to get a wagon rolling on me in the first 24h. If he actively turns up the heat on trfel he'd have to commit to it, or talk about it, and genearlly as scum Damdy wants as little preassure as possible. so he makes this minor read on trfel. It "sets up" for his later scumread, but for now, bam, looks vague enough he won't get pressed on it, but gives him some cred later. town wouldn't bother wasting all this time talking about a "bottom of null" read. Definitey scum move.



this could be an emptry quote and it would share the same amount of info. Damdred here isn't doing anything useful or providing insights, but the buddying with Breshke comes nonetheless.


So, I don't even understand how anyone can let damdred get away with this paragraph. He's like, talking about the "uneveness" between how wave treats art and yamato? again, no evidence, other than he notes that wave has a different opinion on art and yam's alignment. You can't just call something strange and make it strange. What a vague read! Another classic scum move.

We can look at the followup to this to see more revelatory info about Damdred (and I thank rsoultin for being in thread to draw this out"






So, leaving off the reply about my meta (which is actually interesting), here's the Wave post they were talking about:



First off, I think we can all agree this is a pretty bullshit explanation. The more likely truth is that Waveofshadow wasn't paying attention or got confused or something, and is now embarassed about it, and invented an explanation. "Oh, Yamato referenced an out of game thing that I have since forgotten about, and that's the reason" is like, actually one of the worst explanations I have ever heard. The thign is, though, if WoS were scum and had the freedom to invent an explanation, he'd probably come up with a good one. the only reason he'd use such a lame explanation is if there's a kernel of truth to it. Maybe he and Yamato are lovers IRL, for example, and it was a whisper passed between them in the bedsheets. Who knows. The point is, the fact that woS is being so strikingly weird about his not-an-affair reason for not scumreading Yams is actually evidence WoS as town. No way scum comes up with something so strange.

So, rsoultin rightly notes that the overexplaining is a town thing. Damdred calls it an overreaction and doesn't say why that's actually scummy. What's happening here is that Damdred isn't having a scumread follow a logic. Instead of observation + logic -> scumread, he's doing scumread + observation -> logic. In other words, he's using what happened in thread, plus his PLAN to scumread WoS (who is very bad at defending himself in general) and then CREATING FALSE LOGIC to populate his read. Basically, Damdred isn't finding the truth, he's stating a read in his head then working back from it to find an explanatino. That's why he says stuff like "it's the worst town read" or whatever without explaninig why, because there *is* no "why", not until Damdred creates it.

Moving on, Damdred (link) reasonably brings up some of my past games, though in Aperture I don't think I mentioned anything IRL, I mostly just goofed around and rode my claim (and boy did I ride it!) to victory. Cell mafia I am pretty sure I pretended to be moving house. That was fucking awesome. hahaha. Man I'm awesome. In any case, just cause Damdy's right that I'm an amazing scum player doesn't mean that he's town. Scum isn't forbidden from saying true things; it happens.

At this point, Damdred comes back after 13 hours, and in the past 13 hours, I have made this post:




Now let's say you're Damdred as town somehow. You think Blazinghand is pulling the classic "I am blazinghand and I alone out of all TL Mafia players have the manliness to lie about IRL things". You fucking CALL it, youv ote him, then you come back to the thread and he has made one SOLITARY post int he first like 18 hours of the game, and it's LITERALLY AN IRL EXCUSE.

What's your response? Do you:

A) Call BH scum and quote his single post
B) Call BH scum and note that he played just as you acted.
C) Start asking other players why they're accepted BH's bad excuses, and call him scum.

or...

D) make some vague noises at BH, but UNVOTE HIM AND VOTE SOMEONE ELSE

well, guess what kids, Damdy went with D. Now look, I'm not saying Damdred has to spend 100% of his time paying attention to me. I get it, he has to pretend to have otehr reads too. But the first 2 hours after damdred comes back to thread post Blazinghand-post, he only makes these two posts:





The first one concerning people scumreading him for his notably scummy actions. The second one saying he doens't like trfel for the WoS townread. Eventually, he calls me out, 2 hours later-- and this is fine, maybe it took him 2 hours to read the thread somehow, even though he read other things, or no actually that makes no sense. Damdred makes no sense. He forgot he was scumreading me probably then had to make up for it with humor.



Don't let the fact that he's humorous distract you from the fact that he's not actually focussed on me. The killer is here though:



Ok so let'st ake a look at what Damdred has said about Art so far: he's said ARt is null and he's also said Art was joking. He called out WoS FOR CALLING OUT ART. Then he votes art for being lazy. Which I get. You maybe do that to pressure people for funsies. But tehre's no follow up on me.

at this point, we're getting up to 24 hours into the game, and Damdred's posts are no longer caring about the fact that, as far as he claims, BH IS LITERALLY PLAYING BH SCUM META. Remember, Damdred CALLED this. he VOTED me for this. Sow hat's he up to?



Oh, right, Arts isn't playing. What about your main scumread, Damdred? What about the guy who has literally made one post, a post saying he wasn't playing?

There's no way Damdred is ACTUALLY having these thoughts. If he was spending his time thinking about people not playing, he'd bring me up again. Maybe nto a lot; buit at least once. And wait, let's look at that vote post again. Let's just TAKE A FUCKIN LOOK:




EMPHASIS MINE. Yes, I emphasised the whole post. READ IT. READ IT. He's obviously distancing himself from the outcome. Look at this! oh, if Art isn't scum, well, STATISTICS. Fuck, when I say statistics (when I RNG, that is), I at least back it up with REAL STATISTICS. Look at this? He doesn't even say Art is scum! He just says the approach is scummy and he's PREPARING for a townflip. Who votes like this? Who THINKS like this?

Damdred is fabricating the whole read and it shows.

his resposne to pressure is this:



trfel unvotes damdred saying he was voting to "make a point" and asks if damdred gets it (note trfel: I'm watching you) and damdred says:




Again, talking about absence, but no evidence about art's meta (remember how he had that about mine? Why is this case even on art and not me, for whom it's like, actually a case? WTF), just balthering.




not sure what's going on here.

Wos scumreads Trfel for Trfel's scummy activities, and Damdred says:


which is again, meaningless.

He makes a bunch of strange posts that don't really do anything about me. It's now 24 hours in, and Damdred is making posts like this:


when me, the guy he meta-readed as scum, literally did the scum meta thing AND tried to lengthen the day. He says "people dont' feel compelled to play", how is he not thinking of me? Where's the read development? Why is he still on Artanis, even though votes don't matter?



He says he wants to Lynch art now, but there's no case, no follow-up. Look, Damdred is in town and makes a bunch of posts right around this time, probably like 10 over the course of 6 hours. That's fine and dandy, I'm not saying he has to be an activity monster or make tons of posts. But like, why isn't he pushing his read. Breshke even senses something is off and asks Damdred if he really actually wants to lynch Art. It's a reasonable question to ask because Damdred isn't acting like someone who actually wants to be responsible for a lynch, or someone with a scumread. Damdred is just putting his vote places. He's making "scumreads" and "townreads" but tehre's no UNDERLYING THOUGHT PROCESS.

Look, there's a lot of things scum can fake. Scum and "make reads" and "vote" and whatever. Hell, scum can even be right about things, liek calling out lurkers, or pointing out my meta. That's fine. What scum can't easily fake, though, is a town thought process. Think about what you know about finding scum-- a lot of it has to do with things not lining up, with scum backtracking ideas or not making sense or diverging from how they act as town. They don't think the same things, so they ahve to fake it. Damdred doesn't actually thyink I'm scum or Art is scum. If he REALLY thought tehse things, he'd TALK about it. He wouldn't hang out bickering whether some dude is nulltown or nullscum when he's got a vote out on Art. He'd talk about Art. He wouldn't hang out balthering about people not playing because of time issues, when i'm literally doing that.

Damdred, if he were town, would be ALL OVER me. His entire filter would be like that humorous post he made about me saying I need more time. Even if he did switch to Art, he'd actually switch. Heck, maybe he'd still lambast me a bit. And he'd press the art issue. He wouldn't be like,




When he could have a filter full of




and LEGIT follow-up. He'd HAVE the read, not just SAY the read.



Damdred is faking this, 100%. It's all artificial. He's scum. I've proven that. Let's kill him.

##Damdred


oh btw I'm back

On June 05 2017 05:22 Blazinghand wrote:
Vivax.Are you 100% certain I'm scum

Cause he can't possibly believe that I can be 100% certain that you are town.

On June 05 2017 05:20 Vivax wrote:


Liar:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484076-assassination-mafia?user=Blazinghand&view=all

Lynched Day 2

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483428-noir-mini-mafia-chapter-3?user=Blazinghand&view=all

Lynched Day 1 - POSTING HUGE WALL OF TEXT ANALYSIS POSTS

On June 05 2017 05:26 Vivax wrote:


No but if you are town you should be 100% certain that HF is scum.

Cause he can't possibly believe be 100% certain that you are town.

But he thinks I'm mafia for not thinking it.

On June 05 2017 05:30 Holyflare wrote:


Assassination Mafia - 0 RNG lynch proposed, only starts any semblance of analysis at day 2 of game.

Noir Mini mafia - 0 RNG lynches proposed.

Here's the relevant ones that I mention when I say sometimes he just does nothing and that makes him a complete coin flip:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/468053-fantasy-football-ffl-mini?user=Blazinghand

Blazinghand, shot night 2 - pushes joke posts in favour of his RNGd lynch - town

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/496215-mini-mafia-the-kinda-vanilla-experience?user=Blazinghand

Blazinghand - [M][N] Mini Mafia: The kinda Vanilla Experience Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 6 - RNG into analysis with a 20 page filter

it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be at all and none of your links contained his RNG

[M][N] Mini Mafia: The kinda Vanilla Experience Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 6 - 20 page filter of content
[T] Aperture Mafia 4: This Time it's Personal Mafia Inspector G. Lestrade Survived Night 4 - 13 page filter of content

the point you raise that BH isn't posting content and is therefore mafia is bull shit because the last 2 games he has been mafia he has in fact been posting content non-stop

Like I don't even care if BH does end up being mafia. Why waste your time even talking about him? He's pretty much a coin flip.

On June 05 2017 03:56 Holyflare wrote:


He was surprised that TW meta town read him

He's a coin flip, nothing more.

On June 05 2017 04:04 Holyflare wrote:
There's 0 reason for BH to be mafia.
Equally 0 reason for him to be town.

He's a waste of a lynch.

On June 05 2017 04:19 Holyflare wrote:
which is why it's absolutely bull shit

ABSOLUTELY

that vivax is pushing it like BH is definitely gonna flip mafia

and it's bull shit that Tumblewood looked into BH meta and saw anything other than BH repeatedly pushing rng lynches in every game

On June 05 2017 04:23 Holyflare wrote:
I'm defending people from useless as fuck cases, not because I think they are town, but because I think they are useless as fuck cases.

On June 05 2017 04:46 Holyflare wrote:
I don't see how it's hard to follow:

Vivax says we should lynch BH because he's mafia.
I say he does this in every game as every alignment.
Vivax says he's still mafia.
I say it's a coin flip.
Vivax goes after PB and misconstrues his post.
I say it's misconstruing PB's post.
Vivax calls me mafia and Grack town somehow.

On June 05 2017 05:31 Holyflare wrote:


what the shittting fuck fest game are you playing in where I've said BH is town once?

I've REPEATEDLY about 100 times said he's a coin flip while you say he's 100% mafia

But you say he's never played the game properly as town and that was a blatant lie and you have been caught in a blatant lie in an attempt to paint a town Vivax pushing a passive player as mafia.

On June 05 2017 05:35 Vivax wrote:


Then how can I be mafia for pushing a coin flip? That should be at worst null, at best it's the best you can do on a day 1.