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cakepie
985 Posts
I'm going to need time to write my post. I'm not great by the old standards yet. But I now have renewed confidence that I have learned some of the important lessons that my coaches of old tried to teach me. I'm not the best teacher for this stuff. But I will try to teach you what I have learnt, NU. If RL permits, stay up late if you have to. I've pulled like 3 or 4 all-nighters already. If you're town, you owe me at least this one. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
But okay, I'll bite. Yes, we seem to play two different games. You apparently play in a world where who is mafia and who is town is determined by how much town credits they've earned (?) and how they have contributed to the game. While I live by the philosophy that one single action/post can make someone undoubtedly scum. Your 'generation' has a fetish for posting walls of text hunting for logic while 'mine' prefers shorter posts and back and forth discussion. This method favors reading players emotionally. Can you tell me where you are going with this? | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
I had plans of watching Sleepy Hollows before going to sleep. I don't really feel like arguing now. I'm in a happy mood. Or rather I was. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: cakepie, I really don't see the point of your argument. What difference does it make if there is a generation gap or not in the fact that Ray is scum and TW is cop? Why is your goal trying to convince me that we're playing different games? To claw back the win. Really. On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: But okay, I'll bite. Yes, we seem to play two different games. You apparently play in a world where who is mafia and who is town is determined by how much town credits they've earned (?) and how they have contributed to the game. not quite. Remember. I've been talking about 1. town and scum explanations 2. town and scum motivations 3. good faith -- giving people a fair shake On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: While I live by the philosophy that one single action/post can make someone undoubtedly scum. No. Don't do that. On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: Your 'generation' has a fetish for posting walls of text That's just me doing it poorly. On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: hunting for logic while 'mine' prefers shorter posts and back and forth discussion. This method favors reading players emotionally. I'm not going to discount emotion reads outright. But you're right, part about it is about using logic. Emotion reads are fine, but they feed into the pointers I put above. Then, using logic, piece all the possible scenarios together and see what is the most plausible narrative. "Narrative" is another word that you guys trigger on and don't understand. The tl;dr is: in a mafia game, a lot of the evidence is going to be subjective but many small pieces of circumstantial evidence can come together into a whole that is greater than the parts. for every post, every read, every mistake, you must consider both sides of the coin. 1 & 2 above. 3. is being willing to listen, and admit when you're wrong. (This is why I super TR Ray) And then, consider every permutation of both sides of the coin for every little bit of evidence. THEN you apply occam's razor and find the most plausible narrative or scenario. NOT see one thing. apply occam's razor immediately. finish. which is how you're operating. On December 11 2016 13:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: Can you tell me where you are going with this? I want to teach you so we can maybe win the game. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
I think it's better for both of us if I read what you've to tell me tomorrow. I'm not in the mood to argue, and you're too optimistic to deal with my impatience. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:25 cakepie wrote: If you're still with me, I can show you why H1's death makes Ray and I town by the old guards ways, and why the rest of you are newblood who don't get it. Which is why you're so willing to listen to the scum. Ugh, okay. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
I was going to make a tutorial under the assumption you're not around. But you're here. we're already discussing. How well are you following #465? | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: it's been 10 minutes since I made 463 and you still haven't responded. If I were to stay late at night, I'd want it to be a discussion, not a wall of text exchange 465 responds to 463. if this is a discussion, I need to know what you think of it before I move on to talking about H1's death. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:27 cakepie wrote: We can make this a discussion instead of me posting a tutorial. I was going to make a tutorial under the assumption you're not around. But you're here. we're already discussing. How well are you following #465? I see how you guys read, but don't know why you'd be giving everyone such a big margin of error when mafia are obviously going to try and make as few mistakes as possible. I don't really want a tutorial. My way of playing works re: found both scummers D1 last game. I'm more interested in knowing why Ray is town and TW is scum. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
But if you're willing to listen in good faith -- that's the first lesson you need to learn -- then I have some hope of clawing back the win. It's not likely, but I'm playing to my wincon here and refusing to continue letting my team down like I've been doing the whole of early D2. This is all wifom to you, of course. Do you truly have an open heart and a willingness to learn? | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:33 cakepie wrote: Look, I'm not actually that optimistic. If you really struggle to follow, then I'm wasting my time anyways. You can go ahead and hammer and someone else can tell you guys what happened this game. And I can actually go rest my cold. But if you're willing to listen in good faith -- that's the first lesson you need to learn -- then I have some hope of clawing back the win. It's not likely, but I'm playing to my wincon here and refusing to continue letting my team down like I've been doing the whole of early D2. This is all wifom to you, of course. Do you truly have an open heart and a willingness to learn? Well yeah, I'm following and listening, but it's pretty hard to have an open heart and be willing to learn when I have no clue where this leads nor how it'll end up making Ray town. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:32 NeverUnlucky wrote: I see how you guys read, but don't know why you'd be giving everyone such a big margin of error when mafia are obviously going to try and make as few mistakes as possible. But they're going to make mistakes. You need to be able to identify them. I've done a bang splendid job of it. You have the beginnings of being able to do it. If you just stop playing using only emotion and happily accepting that all mistakes are honest town mistakes. On December 11 2016 13:32 NeverUnlucky wrote: I don't really want a tutorial. This is a conversation now. On December 11 2016 13:32 NeverUnlucky wrote: I'm more interested in knowing why Ray is town and TW is scum. I can show you using the pointers in #465 and then analysis of early D2 reaction to H1's flip. Also, looks like I can teach you about telling between scum mistakes and town mistakes. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:38 cakepie wrote: Also, looks like I can teach you about telling between scum mistakes and town mistakes. Earlier D2 I keep bringing up those two things that we both found weird from TW+ExO respectively. You keep swatting it away (iirc "twice in one hour") But you've found scumslips. You just didn't know it yet. | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
Do show me why his flip points to TW and ExO. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:44 ExO_ wrote: NU we know that between CR and TW there is a scum. This is a fact, there's no debating it. And yet what has CP spent the entire time doing? Trying to convince you that I'm scum. He's yet to come in and demonstrate how CR is town. And where the hell is CR in all of this? CP is trying his damnedest I'll give him that but CR is the clear scum here. Please don't throw the game because CP talked your ear off I know, I know. I'm giving him the chance to highlight his case/pov like I did with TW. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On December 11 2016 13:48 NeverUnlucky wrote: I know, I know. I'm giving him the chance to highlight his case/pov like I did with TW. Call it "good faith". | ||
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