EPT
Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin.
Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing?
Pretty weak list if that's the case.
Newbie Student Mafia XXIV - Page 24
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin. Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing? Pretty weak list if that's the case. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 23:24 Tictock wrote: Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin. Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing? Pretty weak list if that's the case. Yeah it's pretty clear what his reads are. I actually agree with you that Rels is underwhelming. Admittedly I am biased here - I've only seen him play when I was scum and I was actually pretty nervous of him that game - but I don't get that same kind of 'aggression' or whatever here. I don't know wherever he's apathetic town or scum though so there's that to contend with. But looking at his filter, he does this: - Town-reads ExO for claiming VT - Talks about NU's meta/ turbo game, disagrees with NU's assessment - Scum-reads Skynx due to 'looking like scum!TW in 72 hours' - Claims to hate darthfoley's post (does not say why) - Questions your town-reads on mahrgell/ myself Given that's all he's done, that's a fair amount of shade-throwing in my opinion and not a lot of explaining his scum-reads. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
So yes, could be mafia. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
Mainly I'm interested in: - why does he town NU - why does he town Foreman - I can see people not agreeing my concerns regarding foreman, but seriously, what has he done to make him a townread???) - what makes foley scummy? - "hates post" okay... Tell me more. Share your thought process. I haven't seen any reasoning on those reads and admit they don't make sense to me. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
In case you consider lynching me and want to throw questions at me... I would love to answer them before. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 23:47 mahrgell wrote: In general: I will have family time starting in about 4 hours... until Saturday noon. This will reduce my activity drastically, I will probably mainly phone post from time to time. In case you consider lynching me and want to throw questions at me... I would love to answer them before. I don't actually know about you. Because I made a case and I think it's a pretty good one with some genuinely scummy behaviour displayed in the posts I flagged up and you didn't really counter those points. But then I've actually liked some of your recent content and honestly that's probably more productive than actually getting into a multi-quote war with me anyway. Basically I have a lot of doubts over which alignment you are, so I'm unvoting for now. ##unvote mahrgell I'm popping out in ten, won't be back for a few hours at least. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
If you lynch me, I would prefer my death to be meaningful. :D If all my posts were about myself, this would not really fulfill this goal. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3941 Posts
I answered your case earlier. On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote: @Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
I meant that you didn't counter the individual points. But I'm not going to force you to answer because I prefer it when you make original content, so keep doing that please. Anyway, must pop out now. Break a leg. | ||
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Foreman
United States88 Posts
On November 03 2016 21:42 mahrgell wrote: . Scum has usually 2 options: a) make up stuff b) reinforce shitty assumptions by townies Meanwhile a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me. In the end, I have to judge if the different judgements made by other players are due to different character or due to hidden agenda. This is terribad. So any townie that you disagree with is scummy to you? Because like, two town can't see the same thing and have completely different thoughts about the same situation, what with the fact that everybody has identical environmental factors and upbringing, amirite? Oh wait... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote: Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that. Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though. Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far. | ||
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Foreman
United States88 Posts
On November 03 2016 21:43 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix Town doesn't ignore other members of the town. That is so false, lol. Not liking somebody's playstyle doesn't make them scum. | ||
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Foreman
United States88 Posts
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. I'm here, still reading all the shitty posts unfortunately and that takes time. Also, congratz for exposing yourself for going after a low-hanging fruit. | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
In fact, she is the one who has contradicted herself the most this game. Here, she says that ignoring is anti-town for players to ignore others because it shows that they do not want to reconsider their reads and that it favors tunneling. She even says that it is something she will try to avoid doing. YET, this is EXACTLY what she does. She ignores me completely, and is not willing to ever reconsider her read on me, despite the evidence of me being town and the lack of evidence for me being scum. BIG contradiction. On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote: It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. On November 03 2016 21:42 Calix wrote: There is no inconsistency and nothing you say will make it so. I'm not getting into an argument with you again so don't even try to start one. You're either mafia or toxic and both can be resolved by ignoring for the time being. Here, she says that I am tamer when I am scum. Later, she says that my tone is abrasive and scum-reads me for it. Those are extreme opposites, and it shows another contradiction in her scum-read. On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote: With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind. On November 03 2016 22:28 Calix wrote: Amusingly enough, your STFU vote is on mafia. I'm scum-reading him largely due to multiple inconsistencies (e.g., breaking his promise to keep discussion civil, flip-flopping on his read of me with dodgy read progression, contradicting stances he has taken on matters in past (town) games, he suspects half the players in the game but claims that he's not 'throwing shade') and being unnecessarily abrasive at a time when town has a semi-productive atmosphere. I'm still writing up a larger post on this so consider this a summary. I will follow this up with a response of Calix’s case summary. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
Mahg On November 03 2016 03:28 mahrgell wrote: 1) I'm very proud you got my name correct this time. Maybe we delay your lynch a few days! 2) Calix: Looked to me like an "let's start the game" thing, I don't share Exo's interpretation that Calix wanted to silence him. This does not tell anything about Calix though. Could be fake activity, considering that those pathetically weak early attempts rarely lead to much information, could also honest interest in starting something. So nothing here. 3) Exo: his retaliation seemed... weird. I don't see a point there. I guess I could consider it something meta'ish that you blindly accuse everyone day1 to be mafia to "apply pressure and get things going". So either minor scumlean or just some broken metashit. 4) conclusion: I consider it for now as TvT, if it is MvT I would lean more in facor of Calix being the townie, I doubt it is MvM, but well... people can prep the most stupid shit before the game... Let's wait and see PS: if anyone is not a he and wants to be called a she... tell me... Otherwise I use internet rule #1 and consider everyone a male. Bolded gives two opposite directions of having a lean on Exo. "Wierd and pointless" for a scum perspective for overreaction and "pressure and get the game going" for town perspective. He looks quite uncertain about both regards by his specific wording. Then this happens: On November 03 2016 03:59 mahrgell wrote: @Exo so, you are sticking with Calix as your prime scumcandidate? Exo replies yes. Mahg says nothing. Mind you this is like the only thing going on in the thread other than Calix vs NU. Then he goes after NU, accusing him of not following up on Exo vote and posts this. On November 03 2016 04:22 mahrgell wrote: Why not? Following multiple leads is not bad for town. And even if we flip Calix in the end, no matter what color it is, having his talking points discussed would be beneficial to town. So I can't understand that refusal to comment on it. Especially as I would be very interested in your opinion. Don't worry, we won't forget about Calix. And if you feel it got forgotten, ust bring it up later again, if someone wants to balem you for it, just forward it to me. Where is your follow up on Exo then? --- Calix All started with this: On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote: So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Bolded sentence implies a scumread, as if someone thinks a sane person would do something illogical from a town perspective that would suggest it would be a logical move from scum perspective. This gets noticed, and called out by many including Exo, NU, Foreman and magh? if i remember correctly and see how much defence there is for "I didn't scumread Exo". I'm spoilering them cuz they are just so many. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? On November 03 2016 03:35 Calix wrote: This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with. That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up. Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not. On November 03 2016 03:40 Calix wrote: Correction. I am not voting for ExO and you should be suspicious of me if I was given that you (correctly) think I am not scum-reading him. See my previous response for my take on anti-town/ pro-scum. On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote: With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind. Well in my opinion, this is how it went down: - He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix" This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that. That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea. This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy. It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target. So yeah, discuss and all that. On November 03 2016 05:10 Calix wrote: Fact-check. I never stated a scum-read on ExO. "all pushes are very subjective" - It's Day 1. Of course they are going to be 'subjective'. In fact, almost every single push in the history of mafia is 'subjective'. That doesn't mean you just do nothing since town has to be proactive to gain information, etc etc. This is all very obvious stuff so I won't drone on. With that in mind, your approach is very hard to understand to me. On November 03 2016 05:17 Calix wrote: Stating that someone's illogical =/= scum-read, Skynx dear. As for mahrgell, if you're using mind melds to inform a read then that's fine. But from my point of view, I don't get the same impression when it's vice versa. I would have to see you post things first that I agreed with before I would make that read. It's mostly been you agreeing with me if I recall correctly so I can see where you're coming from in terms of perspective. The whole thing is just so bullshit. Ofc you imply that he is scum. How can you say that he is being anti-town but at the same time say that "sorry guys he's anti-town but I'm not scumreading him"? What was the point of that in the end? Obviously nothing, you tried something as a scum and got called out and had to backpaddle for next 5 pages try to bury it. ---- Foreman On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote: Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Very dodgy vote for "overanalyzing = tryhard" or w/e. Gets called out by Calix, as his vote came after NU with very little reasoning behind. On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote: So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push. Discredit noted. Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so. First, it was not a push. You voted Calix for absolutely nothing scum indicative then call his callout discrediting you. On November 03 2016 03:38 Foreman wrote: Sheeping is voting using somebody else's reasons. I voted with my own push. Not the same thing. If you're not scumreading ExO, your vote is in the wrong place. Shitting up a thread is pro-scum because it allows scum to more easily hide in the noise it creates. I may be new to this site, but don't think for a second that means you can bullshit me. You didn't have a push. You voted, then made up reasons for it cuz the vote was shit: The so called "tryhard and overanalyzing" transformed into "going after low hanging fruit and motivating people to behave anti-town" | ||
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NeverUnlucky
Canada1622 Posts
On November 03 2016 22:28 Calix wrote: Amusingly enough, your STFU vote is on mafia. I'm scum-reading him largely due to multiple inconsistencies (e.g., breaking his promise to keep discussion civil, flip-flopping on his read of me with dodgy read progression, contradicting stances he has taken on matters in past (town) games, he suspects half the players in the game but claims that he's not 'throwing shade') and being unnecessarily abrasive at a time when town has a semi-productive atmosphere. I'm still writing up a larger post on this so consider this a summary. Breaking my ‘promise’ to keep discussion civil : I have never made such a promise. It was the way I approached the game at first, trying to favor discussion by being civil. This is due to feedback I’ve received last game, and keeping a positive thread atmosphere being one of the three town leader ‘pillars’. I also do not see why you are scum-reading me for this. I had a pro-town intention at the start of the game. There is even a progression in my posts showing how I went from ‘‘let’s be nice’’ to toxic. It’s not an inconsistency if there is clear progression of my mood/tone. Flip-flopping my read on you : Fair enough, though I’m kind of always doing that, so I don’t really think it’s AI. Contradicting stances I’ve had in past town games : Re : my previous post, you claim that I’ve done such thing, but fail to ever point it out. Claiming something does not make it true. Also, how the fuck do you want me to counter this point more than this if you cannot even support your own claim? Suspecting half the players and claiming I am not throwing shade : Suspecting players =/= throwing shade???????????? Throwing shade is giving faulty/shady reasoning for one to be scum, and I have not done that this game (except for you). Once again, you fail to back-up your claim with tangible evidence. I’m not sure if you’re also saying that me suspecting half the players is scummy, but if you are : how is it scummy for town to suspect half the players less than 12 hours into the game? How is this abnormal for me? Being abrasive : Re : my previous post, this is an inconsistency on your part as you claimed that my scum play was tamer. How is me being abrasive an argument for you to sr me? If anything, it is an argument to tr judging on past games. Town did not have a semi-productive atmosphere. It was 2 pages of NU is scum, and rhetorical NAI vs AI talk. That’s not productive. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
Tictock On November 03 2016 07:00 Tictock wrote: Ok more or less caught up. Exo and Foreman seem like the obv scum team to me atm. A little less sure on Foreman, but eh w/e. Exo is prob scum for his reaction to Calix's questions as well as him dropping the gif stuff. Calix was right to ask him why he dropped his "I'm gunna post in mostly gifs" kus the most likely reason why he would drop that plan is if he rolled scum and decided it would draw too much attn to himself. I think the fact the he only posted the one gif kinda supports that as well. Exo's push on Calix is pretty BS too, saying she is scum for "trying to get him to post gifs" is just stupid kus there is no way that is what she was implying. Not to mention that I don't think Calix would ever do that as scum either. After arguing with Calix a bunch all he did was call me scum for my one liner open. Seems like the obv lynch to me. ##Vote: Exo_ Exo is scum with Foreman Exo is scum for overreacting to a bad push > No, he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes. Exo is scum for dropping the gif stuff > So you actually suggest him trying to be pro-town implies he did it because he rolled mafia is absolute OMGUS. Exo is scum for shitty push on Calix > I can sort of agree with this cuz it was badly worded. However Not to mention that I don't think Calix would ever do that as scum either. this is quite bad as Exo's push is not indicative of Calix' alignment as regardless of the retaliation, Calix' push was bad and he stepped back from it and should be pushed for it.Nothing about Foreman this is literally the worse case ever On November 03 2016 07:05 Tictock wrote: Calix and Marghal (or w/e) are my top town atm. Mostly everything they have done has been to push the game forward and have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles. Skynx is a little shitter for trying to imply that this early game is NAI. This is prob the least jokey start of a game I have every seen. Kinda null on him despite his early posts seeming unlikely to come from scum imo. I kinda think NU is town but I'm not really sure why, just feels natural and relaxed I guess. In the same vein I kinda liked Dark's one post too so they are both townleaning nulls. "pushing the game forward" here means voting for wrong and weak and meaningless reasons that are not there. have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles. what does this even mean? Can you like quote some stuff indicating why them two are town? Cuz i see nothing.Middle ground on me, calls me shitter, unlikely to come from scum, in the end null. If above two are town for pushing the game forward by a clear margin for you, why am I not an as clear scum for doing the absolute opposite?? These don't make any sense. Two lists of opinions about people after a long silence and they are all meaningless/wrong. ##Vote: Tictock | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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Sorry.![[image loading]](http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq303/neko_riddles/Fighting_Over_Marisa_From_Touhou_Pr.gif)
