• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:41
CEST 14:41
KST 21:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview1[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals A
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1427 users

[M][N] Murder on the Cruise Trip Mafia - Page 45

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 182 Next
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
October 05 2016 12:37 GMT
#881
btw, there's about 99% chance I sheep marv day 1.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
October 05 2016 12:37 GMT
#882
On October 05 2016 21:36 Calix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 21:32 Palmar wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:29 Calix wrote:
The fact that you think that I'm a good player automatically tells me that you're overestimating my play.

Did you know that this should make me scumread you.

And I'm tempted to, I don't know though.

Thing is, when given credit in mafia, you should always take it as town. If I control the lynch as a townie, because people are willing to listen to me, I am automatically increasing town chances of succeeding by a tiny bit. I'm not going to lynch myself, so statistically I'm more likely to hit mafia from my pov.

Even then, it's always beneficial as town to have people listen to me. On the other hand, as mafia it's the other way around. If I know people won't listen to me as mafia, I'll just bus every day and call everyone bad until the game is over.

So, no matter your intention here, you did something that is objectively scummy. Thing is though, people do objectively scummy things all the time as all alignmnets.


tl;dr: You're accusing me of marginalising my own contributions.

Except I wasn't doing that because I didn't put down my own points. All I did was say "I'm not a good player" which is true as I'm not that experienced.

If you think it's 'objectively scummy' but you don't think it makes me scum then that means that you're accusing me of playing badly...which supports my point.


Essentially yes

For example, I am #1 player, therefore people listen to me.
Computer says mafia
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 12:39 GMT
#883
On October 05 2016 21:37 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 21:36 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:32 Palmar wrote:
On October 05 2016 21:29 Calix wrote:
The fact that you think that I'm a good player automatically tells me that you're overestimating my play.

Did you know that this should make me scumread you.

And I'm tempted to, I don't know though.

Thing is, when given credit in mafia, you should always take it as town. If I control the lynch as a townie, because people are willing to listen to me, I am automatically increasing town chances of succeeding by a tiny bit. I'm not going to lynch myself, so statistically I'm more likely to hit mafia from my pov.

Even then, it's always beneficial as town to have people listen to me. On the other hand, as mafia it's the other way around. If I know people won't listen to me as mafia, I'll just bus every day and call everyone bad until the game is over.

So, no matter your intention here, you did something that is objectively scummy. Thing is though, people do objectively scummy things all the time as all alignmnets.


tl;dr: You're accusing me of marginalising my own contributions.

Except I wasn't doing that because I didn't put down my own points. All I did was say "I'm not a good player" which is true as I'm not that experienced.

If you think it's 'objectively scummy' but you don't think it makes me scum then that means that you're accusing me of playing badly...which supports my point.


Essentially yes

For example, I am #1 player, therefore people listen to me.


I'm not sure what the point of writing up a substantial post just to conclude "you're playing badly" is then, but this has already been covered.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 12:46 GMT
#884
Ok now I'm gonna sheep Marv, so my vote is not useless Palmar....
Honestly though bats re-entry did not include a scum-read or Vote and it did include some stupid shit about "if I'm mafia and super is town, I have nothing to gain by hard defending super" except that 1, when super flips you get cred for being right, 2, your influence is so low that you aren't going to change anyone's minds. Vote threads suxk
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 12:49 GMT
#885
Lol Palmar isn't making sense calix.

Don't get sidetracked by this shit

Talk to me about grack
No gg, No skill.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
October 05 2016 12:50 GMT
#886
On October 05 2016 21:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok now I'm gonna sheep Marv, so my vote is not useless Palmar....
Honestly though bats re-entry did not include a scum-read or Vote and it did include some stupid shit about "if I'm mafia and super is town, I have nothing to gain by hard defending super" except that 1, when super flips you get cred for being right, 2, your influence is so low that you aren't going to change anyone's minds. Vote threads suxk

I don't think your vote is useless. Why are you telling me that?
Computer says mafia
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 12:58 GMT
#887
On October 05 2016 21:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol Palmar isn't making sense calix.

Don't get sidetracked by this shit

Talk to me about grack


I don't think he has done anything strongly town/ scum. He has made some points that I can see where he is coming from, however, such as his reasoning for town-reading Superbia.

But most of his filter is isolated points and stray comments with little commitment to anything, so hard to tell for sure.

Anything you want to say on him one way or the other?
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 13:00 GMT
#888
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
October 05 2016 13:09 GMT
#889
You fellas and ladies should start thinking about who other than me would be a good lynch today. Damdred is my preferred lynch right now I'll keep checking in though to see if i can find any chances to save myself

##vote: Damdred
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 13:19 GMT
#890
You calix, tomato tomato, same thing
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 13:20 GMT
#891
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?

No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 13:21 GMT
#892
On October 05 2016 22:09 batsnacks wrote:
You fellas and ladies should start thinking about who other than me would be a good lynch today. Damdred is my preferred lynch right now I'll keep checking in though to see if i can find any chances to save myself

##vote: Damdred

Lol why would we do that when you don't even care about saving yourself?
No gg, No skill.
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 13:26 GMT
#893
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.

Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
October 05 2016 13:31 GMT
#894
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


Ok sounds good.
No gg, No skill.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16325 Posts
October 05 2016 13:35 GMT
#895
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


huh

I thought if bats is scum I was scum?! This doesn't make any sense. I mean sure, grack and bats can be a team but it does not fit in your supposed train of thought at all.
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 13:39 GMT
#896
On October 05 2016 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


huh

I thought if bats is scum I was scum?! This doesn't make any sense. I mean sure, grack and bats can be a team but it does not fit in your supposed train of thought at all.


What? This has nothing to do with you.

He's asking how my opinion of Grack would change depending on what Bat flipped.

I responded with "Grack could be a potential partner if Bat is scum but I don't think he's done anything scummy at the moment"

I don't even get what your argument is here.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16325 Posts
October 05 2016 13:42 GMT
#897
On October 05 2016 22:39 Calix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


huh

I thought if bats is scum I was scum?! This doesn't make any sense. I mean sure, grack and bats can be a team but it does not fit in your supposed train of thought at all.


What? This has nothing to do with you.

He's asking how my opinion of Grack would change depending on what Bat flipped.

I responded with "Grack could be a potential partner if Bat is scum but I don't think he's done anything scummy at the moment"

I don't even get what your argument is here.

Your whole scumread on me hinges on bats being scum. And now if someone asks you what you think of grack if bats flips scum you say: "he might be scum because he pushed JAT instead of bats"? Like what?
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
October 05 2016 13:43 GMT
#898
Oh look calix forgot her associations again.
Calix
Profile Joined August 2016
3379 Posts
October 05 2016 13:49 GMT
#899
On October 05 2016 22:42 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:39 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


huh

I thought if bats is scum I was scum?! This doesn't make any sense. I mean sure, grack and bats can be a team but it does not fit in your supposed train of thought at all.


What? This has nothing to do with you.

He's asking how my opinion of Grack would change depending on what Bat flipped.

I responded with "Grack could be a potential partner if Bat is scum but I don't think he's done anything scummy at the moment"

I don't even get what your argument is here.

Your whole scumread on me hinges on bats being scum. And now if someone asks you what you think of grack if bats flips scum you say: "he might be scum because he pushed JAT instead of bats"? Like what?


I said that a large part of my scum-read on you revolves around scum!bat, not the entire thing.

It's a possibility that I was asked about. I don't see how considering other possibilities where you AREN'T scum with batsnacks is a bad thing. As said before, I am skeptical that I have actually found two of the mafia on Day 1.

Actually you know what? I'm not going to spend more time exploring this line of thought as it's pre-flip, relies on speculation and I don't even know if batsnacks is scum yet. Ask something more productive.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16325 Posts
October 05 2016 13:51 GMT
#900
On October 05 2016 22:49 Calix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:42 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:39 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:26 Calix wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
On October 05 2016 22:00 Calix wrote:
Basically Grack is someone who is in my lean-town category because of some shitty/ weak reasoning, other people being scummier, etc. Consider it 'town by statistical probability'.

I expect my reads to change drastically depending on the flip.

Can you bring me through a quick summary of his alignment assuming bats flips town/scum?



If Bat is scum, then I'd look into Grack as he is a possible partner, wouldn't have pushed scum!bat much and focused more on pushing HF/ JAT and defending Superbia. (however I don't think Grack has said anything to/ about batsnacks that is scummy by itself)

If Bat is town then I don't see my opinion of him changing much, so town.

I'm not very comfortable with giving my thoughts on how I might view things in hypothetical scenarios so take with a grain of salt.


huh

I thought if bats is scum I was scum?! This doesn't make any sense. I mean sure, grack and bats can be a team but it does not fit in your supposed train of thought at all.


What? This has nothing to do with you.

He's asking how my opinion of Grack would change depending on what Bat flipped.

I responded with "Grack could be a potential partner if Bat is scum but I don't think he's done anything scummy at the moment"

I don't even get what your argument is here.

Your whole scumread on me hinges on bats being scum. And now if someone asks you what you think of grack if bats flips scum you say: "he might be scum because he pushed JAT instead of bats"? Like what?


I said that a large part of my scum-read on you revolves around scum!bat, not the entire thing.

It's a possibility that I was asked about. I don't see how considering other possibilities where you AREN'T scum with batsnacks is a bad thing. As said before, I am skeptical that I have actually found two of the mafia on Day 1.

Actually you know what? I'm not going to spend more time exploring this line of thought as it's pre-flip, relies on speculation and I don't even know if batsnacks is scum yet. Ask something more productive.

Interesting. So you are weakening your read now when questioned. Very scummy.
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 182 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 19m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1659
Ryung 566
TKL 393
Lowko330
ProTech132
Rex 126
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39940
Sea 5971
Mini 642
firebathero 317
Last 240
ggaemo 235
Soulkey 188
Zeus 173
Rush 135
Bonyth 93
[ Show more ]
hero 77
Pusan 69
Sea.KH 64
Liquid`Ret 54
Hm[arnc] 41
Barracks 28
soO 27
Sacsri 27
Backho 24
Nal_rA 19
Mind 17
Sexy 5
Icarus 3
Dota 2
Gorgc4897
League of Legends
Reynor83
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr37
Other Games
gofns31409
Grubby11294
singsing1996
B2W.Neo560
byalli392
DeMusliM341
crisheroes232
Sick185
KnowMe97
monkeys_forever89
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL21004
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1211
CranKy Ducklings79
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 63
• StrangeGG 32
• Adnapsc2 17
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP10
• Gemini_19 6
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2168
• Jankos1462
Other Games
• WagamamaTV95
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Qualifier
19m
IPSL
3h 19m
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
3h 19m
Artosis vs Sterling
eOnzErG vs TBD
BSL
6h 19m
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Patches Events
10h 4m
GSL
19h 19m
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
1d 3h
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
1d 6h
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.