+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On September 11 2016 13:39 Tumblewood wrote:Why Calix isn't scumFirst of all: It is best first to ignore the Tictock wagon/flip and to look at Calix's posting style. Look big picture. Calix posting entirely from a townie mindset. He has consistently put himself out there with his reads and has been unafraid to call out bullshit. He is willing to confront people, inquisitive, and, above all, he is so clearly trying his hardest to help town. + Show Spoiler [Some examples of what I mean] +On September 09 2016 07:31 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 07:16 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 09 2016 07:05 Calix wrote:
Using the correct pronouns is not a scum tell and never will be. You just used it yourself in your last line because it's a common word in the English language.
Also seriously? You are aware that I moved to a different site to get AWAY from crappy meta reads and the first thing you do is give me shit via a crappy meta read? It's a very mild scum tell and always will be. Yes, I used it in my last line... in a different context. The "we" I used referred to you and me, not the town. Nice misrep attempt. Ugh, I know, and I apologize. I won't use meta anymore. :3 In regards to your LW point: you stated that town should use surnames/quotes to refer to X player and then mentioned that scum can manipulate LWs. So you knew that what you were going to say wasn't going to be helpful for town anyways. Why did you feel the need to mention this? What do you think of my first post? How did you think that town had PRs before they were lynched? It's a PRONOUN. Bloody Hell, if you're going to start a tunnel based on this, you're going to be useless. That wasn't a misrep because I was using it to say that your point sucked, not to discredit you. Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 07:19 Vivax wrote:On September 09 2016 07:05 Calix wrote:On September 09 2016 07:00 Vivax wrote:On September 09 2016 06:55 Calix wrote:On September 09 2016 06:46 Shapelog wrote:This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch)
PL's here basically refer to Meta, inactivity, Behavior, or just the basics of scum hunting (I.E. Obv scum) I am guessing when you said NU cannot be a PL, you meant activity right? I mean activity, yeah. On September 09 2016 06:46 Vivax wrote:On September 09 2016 06:37 Calix wrote:
It doesn't look like you guys do RVS and I don't relate to the few posts being made so far, so I'l just chip in with some thoughts on the setup. Not seeing anything particularly eye-popping aside from the following:
- Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty") then you could quote some post numbers by said player, quote something they said, etc. I don't think LWs will be that useful for the protectives unless nobody died on a certain night because telling the scum who was protected last night in the event of a kill just needlessly gives the scum information on what the healing roles are thinking. If anyone knows what the Doctor roles would even need to tell the town (aside from telling us who they scum-read or something) then I'm all ears.
- There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented.
- We might want to be careful with policy lynching apathetic/ inactive players or being sloppy with CFDs in general. I've been told that TL is more open to policy lynches compared to where I come from, but since lynched players become Sheriff-Vigs, I think it would be suboptimal play to give lazy players a KPN in the early stages. This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch)
Anyway, hi. It's pretty late for me so if I randomly drop off, don't be surprised. Bolded seems like fluff tbh cause you don't seem to have any own ideas to contribute for this part. "we have to find out what to do" . Who would've thought.Your last point is also pretty uninformative. It's like you're suggesting not to lynch. Doesn't look as bad as your second though. But still. You get a bit of benefit of the doubt for this being your first game here, but if somebody is meh for me right now it's you. My point says we shouldn't rely too much on LWs but that establishing good communication with the dead is important. While that's not some profound insight, there are clearly ideas being expressed here. What are you even referring to with the bolded part? Because it bears no resemblance to anything I said. "suggesting not to lynch" - No, I said we shouldn't rush into a lynch or policy-lynch early on. Nowhere did I imply that we shouldn't lynch. (which isn't even possible, lol) "benefit of the doubt" - No I don't. Just because I'm new to the site doesn't mean I'm clueless. What do you mean with "we should establish a way for dead townies to communicate" then? Cause to me it reads exactly like "we should do stuff" without having an idea of how to implement such a feat. I just suggested a way in which Sheriffs could communicate their results to the town by saying "they can get around the no-names rule by using post numbers" which is literally giving a suggestion as to how we communicate with the dead.On September 09 2016 07:00 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 09 2016 06:46 Vivax wrote:On September 09 2016 06:37 Calix wrote:
It doesn't look like you guys do RVS and I don't relate to the few posts being made so far, so I'l just chip in with some thoughts on the setup. Not seeing anything particularly eye-popping aside from the following:
- Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty") then you could quote some post numbers by said player, quote something they said, etc. I don't think LWs will be that useful for the protectives unless nobody died on a certain night because telling the scum who was protected last night in the event of a kill just needlessly gives the scum information on what the healing roles are thinking. If anyone knows what the Doctor roles would even need to tell the town (aside from telling us who they scum-read or something) then I'm all ears.
- There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented.
- We might want to be careful with policy lynching apathetic/ inactive players or being sloppy with CFDs in general. I've been told that TL is more open to policy lynches compared to where I come from, but since lynched players become Sheriff-Vigs, I think it would be suboptimal play to give lazy players a KPN in the early stages. This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch)
Anyway, hi. It's pretty late for me so if I randomly drop off, don't be surprised. Bolded seems like fluff tbh cause you don't seem to have any own ideas to contribute for this part. "we have to find out what to do" . Who would've thought. Your last point is also pretty uninformative. It's like you're suggesting not to lynch. Doesn't look as bad as your second though. But still. You get a bit of benefit of the doubt for this being your first game here, but if somebody is meh for me right now it's you. Also, she infered that town had PRs before they were lynched which shows she didn't correctly read the setup. It's NAI, but To add to your point about her fluff: she used words like "we" -- Scum tend to use those words more than town to fit in the group. Scum!Calix uses "we" a lot. She ends her post with an excuse to why she wouldn't post in the upcoming hours. It's something scum tends to do more, but it still is NAI. Scum-reading Calix. @Vivax, don't give me or her the benefit of the doubt because we're "new", we aren't. We're both familiar to mafia. Giving either of us (especially her) a chance, it could be all we need to fly under your radar. Using the correct pronouns is not a scum tell and never will be. You just used it yourself in your last line because it's a common word in the English language. Also seriously? You are aware that I moved to a different site to get AWAY from crappy meta reads and the first thing you do is give me shit via a crappy meta read? But that's about your first point, not the second one. Which makes it look to me like your second one might as well not be there. Proceeding with the dissection: There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. -> yes, but what's the point of saying this. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much -> And yet you suggest a plan that seems to deem them important. but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented. -> Cause scum can manipulate LW, you want LW to be reliable communication? These two statements don't mesh together. Why? Cause scum can manipulate LW, no LWs are reliable. Main point being: I found your second point there to just be fluff. The point is that we can't trust the messages too much but that it's still a good idea for the dead town to try and communicate with the rest of the thread anyhow. (trying to post correct information > not trying at all) I'm not sure how saying "hey, here are some ways that the town could try to communicate info via their LWs" is a bad thing. I also didn't say "LWs are reliable" and openly said that we shouldn't trust them...which is something that you note in the rest of your post. I'm not seeing how you're concluding half the things that you are from my posts. On September 09 2016 08:11 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 08:03 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 09 2016 07:59 Damdred wrote:
Vivax is obviously town for today and I wouldn't lynch him until d2-3 even if he wasn't doing God's work today. Though his posts have been pretty nice even if I disagree at points.
And I am sort of scum hunting you just don't like the how which isn't of consequence nor a reason to scum read me.
And shape is one of more interesting scum players on site, so I'll always hold out on him. You didn't explain your read on him, LMAO. "Obvious town" doesn't convince anybody (Maybe Eggy). Which points do you disagree with? How are you scum-hunting? I don't recall reading any of your posts with a comment as to why X would be scum nor pointing out the fallacies in people's posts. Explain. Can you cut the crap with referring to Eggy every game? Nobody here knows who you're talking about and it's petty. Pointing out fallacies =/= scum-hunting. Going "oh you misrepped me and made an appeal to emotion" isn't the same thing as detailed analysis. Vivax's post that I responded to is a MUCH better example of legit scum-hunting even if he's wrong. Maybe try emulating that instead of going "boom! Found a scum tell, gg no re" I don't agree with Damdred that he's scum-hunting. He claims to be using POE (with town-reads) but that is not the same thing imo. Otherwise not sure what he would be referring to. On September 09 2016 09:31 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 09:24 Tumblewood wrote:
there is one thing I have on Shapelog that makes me feel really smart. I think he is town because of his setup spec early game, because it shows that he is genuinely interested and not doing it for town cred because setup spec is generally something people scumread you for. not 100% but I'm sticking with it.
other people:
vivax is probably town just for tone and care-ness
calix looks town and NU looks scum to me. even though their entrances were the same from a surface-level point of view, calix feels more genuine and helpful.
Damdred interests me but I do not yet have feelings toward his alignment "Doing X gets you scum-read so anyone who does X is town because scum don't want to risk the negative attention" - Isn't this argument based around WIFOM? I don't know what this site's view towards setup spec is but I consider it NAI. It's commonplace on my home site. I don't disagree with the conclusion but I dislike the reasoning. Your NU scum-read doesn't make sense. Why would the fact that I 'feel more genuine and helpful' have an impact on what NU's alignment is? You just used someone else to give a scum-read on another player. You say our entrances are the same on the 'surface level' so how do they differ underneath that then? So Damdred's a null? Not sure why you included him - why does he interest you? On September 11 2016 00:38 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 23:27 Holyflare wrote:
I mean who says they've skimmed and haven't read properly and asks why there's votes on me but then in the same post explains why there's two people voting me????????????
ALSO who decides to note vote someone based on good evidence just because they semi don't read the 3!!!!! out of 13 people on the wagon????
Not to mention I'm pretty sure she town read me and agreed with my points.
Also first 1/3 of filter is arguments with her town read NU.
Rest of it is just lots of giving out free wishy washy town reads and flip flopping on vivax, I think there's one real case but that's on town Fuba. I was asking for a case for why they thought you were scum because things like "his cases aren't as good as they are when town" aren't something I can give an opinion on because I don't know your meta. I've also explained my thought process in regards to TT which is clearly shown in my filter. I initially scum-read him, then had doubts about his static train and the people voting him and then I switched my vote after reading fuba's filter. That's also a horrible characterisation of my filter. I had scum-read Grack/ TT/ TW together earlier, then revised that when I read fuba's filter and my town-reads aren't 'wishy-washy' whatsoever. I stated who they were and why and that was that. You haven't explained how fuba is town as of yet. In fact, NOBODY has. Why is everyone just ignoring him?Also, she slipped when she talked about setup spec, saying that town had PRs. Someone who rolled town would know which town roles are in the game. That's the first thing they would check. Additionally, her LW talk seemed coming from a mafia trying to appear like he's helping town perspective. It in no way helped town. If anything, her proposition would have given mafia more freedom to frame those LWs. btw, I will not post a LW. Any LW attached to my death is a framed one. There's also the meta points that make her 100% mafia in my eyes. I will list them later if need be. @Calix, they're not the shitty meta-reads you usually get scum-read for i.e. being much less active than usual. They're actual things you've only said as scum and will only say as scum. I didn't say town had PRs to begin with. I already explained what I meant there...? You have no meta points on me. It's impossible for you to have any because you've only read ONE scum game of mine from FIVE MONTHS AGO. One game =/= meta. Again, you have no idea what my scum meta is. You're too focused on 'scum slips' which aren't scummy so I expect anything I say will be ignored by you. Honestly. On September 11 2016 03:25 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 03:22 Damdred wrote:
You are again avoiding answering the initial questions and trying to call me terrible for the truth is laughable to say the least I answered your questions. Make better ones next time that don't require abstract answers. Your attempt at painting my response as evasive has been noted. (there are more but no one would read them all anyway) "But Tumblewood," you ask, "how can you ignore that Calix had TMI with Tictock?" Ah ha ha haaa. What a silly question. Calix didn't have TMI at all.Right here is where Calix first shows wariness of the wagon on TT. Keep in mind that before this Calix was scumreading TT. On September 11 2016 01:55 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 01:47 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Calix, since you don't s-r the Vivax anymore and are leaving fuba alone for today, who's in your sights for today's lynch? Good question. I don't have a fucking clue. Grackaroni is looking townier the more he posts; nobody else scum-reads fuba; I town-read Vivax, you, Superbia, Palmar (shitty town-read but still); TT's train is shitty and if he's scum, then the scum are doing a horrendous job at diverting it (hardly anyone has questioned it which makes me wary)...I'm starting to feel like a lot of the scum are among the lurkers and I don't know how to sort them. Either that, or they are the sort who are good at looking townie on Day 1. He cites how easily the wagon formed (which is intelligent and indicative of + Show Spoiler [cough cough] +scum supporting a mislynch ). This happened 4 hours before deadline. And right here is the dichotomy that everyone should have seen:On September 11 2016 02:31 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 02:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:Yes, moron. I really appreciate you going into the game with the intent to use meta when you knew full well that I moved to a different site precisely to avoid being 'meta-read' for retarded reasons. Thanks a fucking lot for ruining that. It was not my intent. I only came to this point after seeing you copy-paste your scumtelling post from FF7. I still apologize for doing it. I couldn't resist throwing meta in my read. Slap me. Instead of wasting more of my time with personality tests, try asking something useful I did. I asked you who was your target today. What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't copy-paste shit and why the actual fuck would anyone copy a post made in a SCUM GAME? I don't know. I just think that Tictock is going to end in a mislynch because nobody is doing anything to stop his train. Grackaroni spent more time explaining how his posts weren't defending Tictock than he actually did diverting the train and I know I am town. That can ONLY MEAN TWO THINGS: 1. He is town. 2. The entire scum team are so inactive that they don't give a fuck about stopping a lynch on their team mate. Option 1 is infinitely more likely but I'm not sure how to stop it. I'll going to reread Holyflare given that he's the only alternative at the moment and I've yet to read his filter properly. I don't really town-read him but I don't scum-read him much either. Since I town-read you, your thoughts on him? He continues for the rest of the day to support his read and try to convince town of why they should get off TT. + Show Spoiler [More support he gives this read] +On September 11 2016 03:02 Calix wrote:
The whole "scum could be pushing another lynch" argument doesn't really check out with the current votes. I see nobody trying to make a push for someone who isn't TT.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong and we end up CFD'ing within like, the last half an hour or so but right now? Nah. On September 11 2016 03:02 Calix wrote:
Also there are more people defending the "TT is scum who his team mates don't want to risk defending" angle than there are people actually defending TT, lmao. On September 11 2016 03:16 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 03:13 Damdred wrote:
Why would scum defend scum when that scum isn't trying? Why would scum not hop onto,the tt wagon and solidify it when he's a easy lynch and no,real reprocussions?
Both questions are wifom but both have to be answered for your position calix If both questions are WIFOM then how am I supposed to answer them exactly...? We don't KNOW what the scum are thinking. I am just going to the simplest conclusion of "TT is town and the scum are allowing him to get MLed" My theory only assumes that TT is town and the scum are not trying to defend him. Any other theories assume he is scum and that scum are using WIFOM in their strategies. On September 11 2016 03:48 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 03:45 Holyflare wrote:On September 11 2016 03:27 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 03:24 Holyflare wrote:On September 11 2016 03:10 Calix wrote:On September 11 2016 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Calix you're either mafia or you don't know when you're wifoming.
Mafia can do anything they want at any point in the game and you don't know our meta. If anyone was throwing suspicions away from tt for no valid reason it would be you.
Tt has three votes, tt has not come back to post, people ARE defending tt etc etc.
Stop talking around people's posts and what THEY have done and talking about wifom scenarios it's bad play regardless of your alignment.
You should pick a person to mafia read and post why they are mafia for reasons rhey have done. I know I am town. Why would I say "oh yeah I am defending TT so he must be mafia being defended"? No, I don't know the meta. That doesn't make my point invalid. What are you even arguing here, that since nobody is defending him that he is still scum that the scum aren't trying to defend? Otherwise what is your point with WIFOM? No idea what you are even calling me out for here with 'talking around posts'. If you are defending him and are town then it goes to say that your entire point about mafia should be defending him if he's mafia is irrelevant because town can also defend him. Wifom seems to be the entirety of your argument for not voting a scummy guy. Everyone should look at my logic and say if it's right and sheep it because tt is mafia or wrong and he's not and PROVE why. Also vivax why have you let damdred be there saying tt's mafia meta is to afk when you just saw him afk as town? Mafia are not going to stand by and let one of their own die on Day 1. Several people have said " oh I don't find the TT case convincing" so it's not like the case is so airtight that the scum will give up if TT is scum. So the utter lack of scum defending him or pushing for a different train doesn't make sense. How do you know those people aren't mafia???? I don't. What I was saying there is that there is enough doubt about TT's alignment that scum have room to make a more coordinated defense of TT/ attack of someone else. And I don't see why they wouldn't because bussing is a horrendous scum move. Although if I'm to trust TW, you guys actually bus on D1? wtf On September 11 2016 04:28 Calix wrote:
I'm not saying sheeping is bad, but when an entire train is almost entirely sheep-votes, there's a problem.
Hardly anyone else has managed to get anywhere near the number of sheep votes as TT has. "guys does anyone else notice how many people wanted to sheep that wagon? isn't that a little weird to you all?" I recommend especially that you read the third quote in the spoiler. The important thing to get from this is that Calix did not have TMI by picking the correct answer out of many equally valid possibilities; he picked the simplest, most logical answer from several possibilities and was correct. How long are we going to pretend that it is scummy to be skeptical of a wagon because it formed with little resistance? That is a major trait of a mislynch. The following quote doesn't give me anything that overtly proves Calix didn't have TMI, but the vibes from it are very good. On September 11 2016 05:17 Calix wrote:
I mean I can see the "scum bussing their more useless ally" as a thing but the only person who is trying to take the credit for the TT lynch is HF and if you think HF is bussing then voting HF makes more sense than voting TT by proxy.
(I know you are voting HF, I am just talking generally) "all roads lead to TT being a poor vote" This right here is the last quote I'm going to give you. If this doesn't convince you that Calix didn't have TMI and was instead a townie being smart, nothing will. On September 11 2016 05:24 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 05:21 Palmar wrote:On September 11 2016 05:17 Calix wrote:
I mean I can see the "scum bussing their more useless ally" as a thing but the only person who is trying to take the credit for the TT lynch is HF and if you think HF is bussing then voting HF makes more sense than voting TT by proxy.
(I know you are voting HF, I am just talking generally) If I'm mafia with TT here, I sheep hf's wagon just like I'm doing now, hell I even come up with semi-independent reasons like I'm doing now. The entire point is that IF hf is town, no mafia team is going to risk defending TT here. This means that a) TT could very well be mafia and b) the people defending him if he is, do not have to be mafia (in fact I'd argue that people actually trying to pull away from the lynch are more likely to be town). "If I'm mafia" - Stopped reading because self-meta on your scum game is useless when you are obviously aware of it and can change how you act accordingly. And since I'm the person who is hardcore defending TT, that parenthesis part could be a subtle pocketing attempt from you. I don't think I can do anything about TT's train. Nobody seems to find anything I say worth listening to. The last line screams of trying to get people off the wagon. This was clearly not to get town cred but rather to prevent a mislynch.Ok... But what about scum? You have the energy to town hunt, so why don't you scum hunt maybe? On September 11 2016 14:06 Grackaroni wrote:I just came up with an AMAZING new Grackpot theory. I don't really want to go into it right now, so stay tuned before the day post for the new iteration of Grack reads. HF was phase 1. Now I've officially moved on to phase 2. And 2 is greater than 1 Let's just say on a scale of 1-Koshi I feel about this much: Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 17:32 Koshi wrote:
##unvote
##vote prplhz
This guy. This fucking guy.
Thoughts? Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 17:38 Koshi wrote:
I can't believe you were hidden for so long prplhz. Holy shit. Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 17:39 Koshi wrote:
hahaha
fucking lunatic and prplhz.
Jeezus how did I figure this out. Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 17:49 Koshi wrote:
prplhz is mafia.
And for all the insane fucking things Lunatic has done. I think he never ever once said anything about prplhz.
I am sure it is those 2. ggwpnore.
Fuck I can't believe it. Mafia can't hide forever I guess.
But why are you saying this, do you ask? Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 11:16 Shapelog wrote:On August 10 2016 11:10 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2016 11:08 Shapelog wrote:On August 10 2016 11:06 Holyflare wrote:
Jk/ 1 shot vig /cop isn't really imbalanced anyway Eh, Maybe its because I never played with that kind of set up rofl. Grack, is he right? On August 10 2016 11:06 Grackaroni wrote:
Are you coming out with your theory? lol, I thought he said end of cycle. Yeah but then he quoted the post!I figured that HF was just doing a Rayn lol. 1 shot should be possible with a miller. I don't really know that much about balance. Well my boy. He is doing something called a "strip tease." Its when a female or male starts to undress very very slowly, to sexually arouse you. Now boy, knowing that you are my kin. You will most likely not see many of these during your life till you meet "the one." Therefore, whenever it happens, take the chance. In this case, go get that tiger! I want to be pissed off at Grack not doing anything. But my god I cannot. It catches me funny that Shapelog spent a lot of time defending Skynx. However he did say that he preferred having a conversation to 'help catch up' or something like that so probably not AI but I'll note it for future reference. Wasn't really me defending him, it was me giving my view on the post NU made, and about Skynx Alignment. The reason why i am good at town, is that I am able to bring myself into town discussions. Outside of that. I have to do these long catch up posts, to get A) caught up, but also B) to understand anything. Its hard for me to really do anything if i don't do these. I also realized half way through that you died. So, and since my posts don't apparently get read like they should, all the other people can learn the shape way. I lost some posts i commented on due to accidental cloosing of the tab. On September 11 2016 23:46 fuba wrote:
Morning.
Got a few minutes before work. To answer NU's questions (paraphrasing, on my phone):
What are my thoughts on the calix discussion? I think she probably could have defended tt as either alignment. I disagree that starting the defense because of VCA is accurate, though. I don't see how 3v2v2v1v1v6-no-votes (generalizing, can't look at the vote list right now) indicates a lack of defense. There were other wagons trying throughout the day to get onto someone other than tt. Once the votes were skewed to what they became at EoD, I might have gotten concerned, but she was on it much earlier than that. Might lean slight scum for that, but I also recall thinking that many of her posts just felt like frustrated town. Might be able to find some and quote them later. At the moment I'm considering her town.
Why did I vote for tt? The narrative HF originally laid out made sense to me, and then tt disappearing after it just reinforced it. At the end of the day, I could still see scum behaving as he had, so my vote didn't change. I didn't see any reason that HF exaggerating his sureness was indicative of the case being bad. Though iirc he later mentions that he no longer had a scum read (or maybe it was just a weaker scum read? Would have to look it up) on tt and was lynching for information at that point. That bugs me. Mostly because I'm not sure how much reasonably confident information we got from the lynch. Maybe that'll come to me when I reread EoD.
Who are my scum reads? I'll have to get back to you on that one. My two yesterday were you and tt, which is more that I usually have d1 XD. One was proven wrong, the other I'm currently believing is town. Have to dive some filters and probably reread EoD to develop some more.
I also have some thoughts on TW that are almost completely unrelated to this game, and actually take place in an obs QT for another game that he wasn't in as far as I remember, but there are similarities to this game and I was wondering what other people's thoughts were on it. In one of my previous town games I made a case on a suspected scum being town. In the obs QT, it was declared that I was town for doing so by most people present, even if they were unsure of me before. Does anyone feel that this could apply to TW in this game? I could try to find the game, but would have to wait until a few hours after start of day.
On one hand, I understand that scum have an easy time town reading people (if they're town) because they know they're town. They know it's from a town perspective because everything has to be. On the other, why defend a high content poster once the thread starts swinging slightly against them if your goal is to get them killed? The ability to defend town is greater, but the reason for doing it seems far less so. I know that these scenarios assume tw scum and calix town, but I'm leaving out the possibility that they're both scum because that would be a hard defense of a scum buddy. Which I guess could happen, but it doesn't feel likely? The scenario feels like either both town or one scum.
I needed to ask because it'll be on my mind until it's resolved (think NU's lynchbait comment). Bold are flip floppy when I read it. TW past game I have commented on. Interested to see your scum reads. On September 12 2016 00:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 05:52 Palmar wrote:On September 11 2016 05:51 Grackaroni wrote:
The slip is so stupid. He literally said in the post before "IF HF IS TOWN' quiet boy instead of being shithead, switch with me. step back please, I'm going to do science. I'd like to see what the science was. No one actually voting TW after the slip might have led Palmar to some conclusions as well. I'm not sure I buy he doesn't have any just cause nobody followed him, so at least let's hear the hypothetical version "what if somebody actually fueled a TT counterwagon", what would Palmar's conclusions have been on people following or not following him. My thoughts exactly. On September 12 2016 05:28 Grackaroni wrote:Phase 2: Super cocky Grackalicious game is now totally solved. Get on my level, please - edition.(In all seriousness I could still be a huge noob, but I've played scum with both of these fuckers and I'm totally probably right.) First: The rehash for the clinically lazy. If you are not named Palmar you can probably skip over this part. (To be fair I haven't read a lot too, but I didn't ignore anyone trying to direct me to their lynch.) Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 08:30 Grackaroni wrote:I took some time to write up my perspective on this HF-TT thing. On September 10 2016 02:25 Holyflare wrote:
The only time I have seen someone defend someone so hard when they've done shit all the entire game and someone makes a case on them day 1 the defender has been mafia so probably Grack is actually the most suspicious of them all. First, I don't know where all of this hyperbole is coming from. I don't have much of any opinion on Ticktock. He made 5 meh posts at the start of the game. The point of my post on HF's TT case was entirely in relation to HF because I think I had some valid points to make about HF from that case, which I will try to make clearer. This was my view on TT's posts: On September 09 2016 23:50 Vivax wrote:
Definitely not having the confidence HF has on TT based on so little. Remains nullish for me. Really there's not much interesting in there. He makes 2 posts to say that he rolled scum. He makes 2 +1 posts. And then he gives some brief thoughts on the setup. Now, there were three things from Holyflare that I did not like in the push that I alluded to earlier. The first one was this: On September 09 2016 11:10 Holyflare wrote:
Read his filter and look at how forced it looks that he's giving out reads such as "I like this post" and similar crap.
On September 09 2016 09:47 Tictock wrote:On September 09 2016 06:59 Shapelog wrote:
Hmm, I wanted to say vivax came into the game and only has pointed out sus, things in other people's posts (aka following mafia agenda). But he did play around a little bit with skynx and palmar post.
I'll give you a fairly lazy townlean for this post. On September 09 2016 09:51 Tictock wrote:On September 09 2016 07:00 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 09 2016 06:46 Vivax wrote:On September 09 2016 06:37 Calix wrote:
It doesn't look like you guys do RVS and I don't relate to the few posts being made so far, so I'l just chip in with some thoughts on the setup. Not seeing anything particularly eye-popping aside from the following:
- Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty") then you could quote some post numbers by said player, quote something they said, etc. I don't think LWs will be that useful for the protectives unless nobody died on a certain night because telling the scum who was protected last night in the event of a kill just needlessly gives the scum information on what the healing roles are thinking. If anyone knows what the Doctor roles would even need to tell the town (aside from telling us who they scum-read or something) then I'm all ears.
- There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented.
- We might want to be careful with policy lynching apathetic/ inactive players or being sloppy with CFDs in general. I've been told that TL is more open to policy lynches compared to where I come from, but since lynched players become Sheriff-Vigs, I think it would be suboptimal play to give lazy players a KPN in the early stages. This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch)
Anyway, hi. It's pretty late for me so if I randomly drop off, don't be surprised. Bolded seems like fluff tbh cause you don't seem to have any own ideas to contribute for this part. "we have to find out what to do" . Who would've thought. Your last point is also pretty uninformative. It's like you're suggesting not to lynch. Doesn't look as bad as your second though. But still. You get a bit of benefit of the doubt for this being your first game here, but if somebody is meh for me right now it's you. Also, she infered that town had PRs before they were lynched which shows she didn't correctly read the setup. It's NAI, but To add to your point about her fluff: she used words like "we" -- Scum tend to use those words more than town to fit in the group. Scum!Calix uses "we" a lot. She ends her post with an excuse to why she wouldn't post in the upcoming hours. It's something scum tends to do more, but it still is NAI. Scum-reading Calix. @Vivax, don't give me or her the benefit of the doubt because we're "new", we aren't. We're both familiar to mafia. Giving either of us (especially her) a chance, it could be all we need to fly under your radar. I like this guy, this is a solid post.
Contrast to Skynx here On September 09 2016 07:01 Skynx wrote:
Nothing good on tv/twitch and you guys are no fun, I'm offski to bed. First to post, been around, fucks off without saying anything and right about when things start happening. These were the posts in question. Does anyone agree with this assessment? They look like normal posts to me. I've definitely made posts like that as town. The second thing was the focus on the talking about setup contradiction. Contradictions are only scummy if you can show some mafia motivation behind them. I don't see any here. I do, however, think you can pretty easily convince people that someone is scummy for contradicting themselves in some fluff post when their post shouldn't be viewed any differently than any other setup post. And frankly if you do think the contradiction was scummy (which I don't think you should), I will note that it wasn't even much of a contradiction to begin with. His main point was that we should just play the game like everyone is a VT. The third thing was just the sheer certainty from Holyflare: On September 09 2016 10:48 Holyflare wrote:
I will never in 1000 fiery years vote anyone other than ticktock today. I mean this is just weird to me. It's entirely possible Holyflare is just really full of his reads but it's still a lot. He's carried out this push throughout the rest of the day (and me by extension.) Now, here are what I view as the mafia motivations for the 3 points: For point #1: He seems to be twisting the filter to try to make it sound scummier than it actually is. For point #2: I think he is focusing on a contradiction that he can portray as scummy when I think he should be good enough to realize that it isn't very alignment indicative. TT said he didn't like talking about the setup and then said something about the setup. So what? For point #3: As town in Onegu 2 he sat back for the start of the day and didn't really push anybody until quite late in the day when he questioned Lunatic. At the end he tried to start a last minute wagon on Glowingbear and was unable to overcome my amazing Kushm4sta squirm case (which failed badly, but his case also failed. Really it was an entire game of fails.) As scum in Star Wars he made an early case on Tumblewood and was more proactive. I do believe that HF could be more inclined to try to put himself in a good position as scum and may have jumped out of the gate a tad bit early. He definitely cares a lot about his mafia record. So these were the points I was trying to make. I'm not even convinced that I want to lynch HF but I still wanted to post something to preempt his shennanies. For the non-lazy, this should be a concise summary that shows why HF is mafia. Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 10:13 Grackaroni wrote:On September 10 2016 09:12 Holyflare wrote:
are you actually being fucking serious?
he has no content to post, he's struggling with his entrance (look at his town game entrance completely different and actually has content?!?!) and his only substantial post of the game is something he specifically says is boring and that he hasn't read:
a) he's not going to post content like that while explaining that he skimmed over content like that it's a fucking bs mindset
b) he's not going to post content like that while explaining that he skimmed over content like that because he might be posting things people have already said.
SO what we have here is that ticktock has LIED about not reading the posts and has actually skimmed and knows what they've said OR he's not read them and then he's posting useless shit as his only content of the game that he said was boring that he knows full well other people COULD have said <------- and if THAT is the case then he's literally posting just for the sake of posting which, again, is a mafia mindset.
Who posts something like that after acknowledging that it already exists but not knowing their content? Mafia.
Perhaps you should actually read his god damn filter from his town game instead of harping on about how it's bs and overplayed when it's literally night and day differences between substantial reads from his town game and simple "Yeah I like that post" bs in this game. It's hilarious that you've actually for some reason looked at two of my previous games and ignored absolutely every other game I've ever played and concluded that I never do these kind of pushes as town when vivax has literally told you 3-4 times that I am this aggressive as either alignment whenever I want to be. I have no idea what you're trying to make out of this but all I see is hogwash. Really this seems like a whole lot of effort to try to portray some minor thing as some huge scum slip. The thing that truly solidified the HF read for me was the way he was arguing with me yesterday. The way that he tried to nit pick on any little discrepancy he could find to discredit me gave me war flashbacks to the survivor series mafia game I was talking about earlier. I looked through Onegu 2 again and he didn't do this when I accused him then as town. Now for the Tumblewood part: After the lynch I was starting to realize that it's really unlikely that all 3 mafia voted for TT. I am lumping the Palmar vote as a vote for TT because even though he switched he didn't actually make any effort to lynch a non-TT person. Show nested quote +On September 11 2016 05:59 Palmar wrote:On September 11 2016 05:58 Tumblewood wrote:On September 11 2016 05:58 Palmar wrote:
are non-voters instamodkilled?
if so switch to tumble Palmar why am I scum no idea, it's still the best idea. Then I was reading through Shapelog's filter and he was making a lot of good points. Therefore I am crediting Shapelog with the assist on this one. At first I was thinking, the only person being reasonable in this game is Tumblewood. But then it hit me. THE ONLY PERSON BEING REASONABLE IN THIS GAME IS TUMBLEWOOD! Since when is Tumblewood ever fucking reasonable? When he's bussing! Nobody else in the game has been able to figure out HF yet. I guarantee that if these two rolled scum together they are going to bus heavily. Plus whenever TW has tried to put out a non-HF scum read this game it's seemed bad to me. There's one where he thinks NU could be scum from tone that he rescinds because he can't understand him. There's another on Damdred that he rescinds after Damdred posts a super useless list. And then there's a third on Super for not voting him instead of TT when Super has been calling both TW and TT mafia together. Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 09:24 Tumblewood wrote:
there is one thing I have on Shapelog that makes me feel really smart. I think he is town because of his setup spec early game, because it shows that he is genuinely interested and not doing it for town cred because setup spec is generally something people scumread you for. not 100% but I'm sticking with it.
other people:
vivax is probably town just for tone and care-ness
calix looks town and NU looks scum to me. even though their entrances were the same from a surface-level point of view, calix feels more genuine and helpful.
Damdred interests me but I do not yet have feelings toward his alignment Show nested quote +On September 09 2016 09:31 Tumblewood wrote:
on second thought NU confuses me too much to call him scum Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 06:34 Tumblewood wrote:
damdred is disappointing enough that I think he is scum. yea, phone stuff, but ehhh for now damdred is scum Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 08:52 Tumblewood wrote:On September 10 2016 07:15 Damdred wrote:
Tbh I kinda just want to lynch into tt, grac and palmar today. gdi I can't lynch Damdred. he is consistently the least idiotic player in every game. look at this list. it's good. could use Hf but my paranoia taints my opinion Plus HF is actually right that writing a town case on Calix right now is a weird thing to do. So that's where I'm at right now. The third is probably somebody super boring like Damdred or Palmar. Head Bang. Tumblewood part is meh. As scum that is when he is reasonable. But as town as well, he is much more resonable then he is right now. Hence my problum with his play. Him not talking to me after I brought up the meta points, the fixation with Super due to his past games voting record, His Tumblewood vs. the World post, Cal. Town case. All to name a few.
Have to stop because of Storms. Hopfully be back either tomorrow morning, or late tonight if it passes.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FzW6CVY.jpg)
