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On August 11 2016 09:56 Shapelog wrote:
Scoobydoo was Cele, Slient was shaggy, and Lunatic was the villain.
I have achieved all I want in life now. :3
Anyway I'm not sure there's too much to pick apart there. Its a pretty good overview I think.
Honestly I found the game intensely frustrating. I didn't mean to end up trying to lead town but with the sheer lack of anyone doing anything I just felt more and more that I needed to do SOMETHING to drive the game forward. Given the inactivity my reads were all over the place. But probably the biggest problem was because nobody actually really challenged my reads or any of my logic at any point I ended up kinda stuck in an echo-chamber a bit.
With nobody actually questioning my thoughts I had to rely on questioning myself. That's never as good as outside perspective which is always better as it provides new perspectives. Which meant that a lot of the time it was very difficult to correct myself when I was going down a wrong path. :-\
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I actually thought KSC had the more believable claim. Other than that I was pretty much lost all game. Celestial is a posting machine, but I still stand by my argument that two people voting for the same people 3 times in a row is not scum indicative.
Kudos to Rels for figuring out the game at the end.
BTDT was at big risk of being picked off on day 1, but he really upped his game on later days.
It's really unfortunate that real life got in the way of this game for so many people. I think BTDT had a good shot at closing out the game even after the Moosy modkill.
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I also like the decision not to kill Celestial. By LYLO I think a lot of people would be paranoid of him since he probably had over half the game's word count in his own filter.
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Thanks for the detailed write up Shape. I love when people do that, but more important than my feelings about it, it is a great way for every players and observers of the game to take a step back, think about what you've just said, and improve as a player.
Thanks to kita and you for hosting too.
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I think you nailed everything too. Town had bad activity and not-so-good town atmosphere. Celestial Skynx and silentwarrior had good games and a lot of good posts each though, but it's difficult to distinguate lurker from scum when nobody is talking besides them.
BTDT's bussing was pretty obvious if you knew he could do that (in his only other game on this website he was scum in a all newbie scum team and was the only one that tried to bus) but his tryharding starting D3 was pretty good, more than good enough to get almost anyone lynched before him. Again though, if anyone had read his previous game, he would have known it didn't make him town necessarily. In that previous game, the dude was CONFIRMED scum by mechanics, and still tryharded like crazy trying to get someone else lynch. It went to the point that a lot of people started to have doubts, even though he was confirmed scum via the setup.
BTDT, seeing the level of tryhardness you're able to invoke as scum, I look forward playing with town!you.
Moosy was kinda unreadable without meta but with meta he was likely scum. I think objectively he had an OK scum game before his modkill.
Luna is a hard case. Objectively he played a good scum game. BUT it was just sooo different from the game he just played that he was pretty obvious scum, and I'm not talking only about activity. His town game is just so fluid and erratic and obviously town that it's hard to reproduce. Kinda Koshi style.
I look forward for your other big write ups. (=
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yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever
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On August 11 2016 17:21 disformation wrote:
yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever
I had to shoot him. He duelled me. PEW PEW
I agree it was an objectively bad shot BUT I would have shot silent if not Grack. And silent went on to become super townie during D2, then modconfirmed just before deadline. So it's probably better I murdered Grack than shot a guy that would become a confirmed town later.
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On August 11 2016 17:27 Skynx wrote:
Were you 1-shot?
Yeah
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On August 11 2016 17:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 17:21 disformation wrote:
yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever I had to shoot him. He duelled me. PEW PEW I agree it was an objectively bad shot BUT I would have shot silent if not Grack. And silent went on to become super townie during D2, then modconfirmed just before deadline. So it's probably better I murdered Grack than shot a guy that would become a confirmed town later.
mental note to myself: dont duel rels
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On August 11 2016 17:24 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 17:21 disformation wrote:
yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever I had to shoot him. He duelled me. PEW PEW I agree it was an objectively bad shot BUT I would have shot silent if not Grack. And silent went on to become super townie during D2, then modconfirmed just before deadline. So it's probably better I murdered Grack than shot a guy that would become a confirmed town later.
To be fair, if you didn't do that I would have gotten both of you killed. I had it setup that way, your early claim when I was AFK saved you because I couldn't CC like I wanted to in case either of you or Grac was a blue role.
I just didn't suspect that you would shot him or vice verse if that was the case. So you kinda ruined my plan.
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On August 11 2016 17:36 Lunaticman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 17:24 Rels wrote:On August 11 2016 17:21 disformation wrote:
yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever I had to shoot him. He duelled me. PEW PEW I agree it was an objectively bad shot BUT I would have shot silent if not Grack. And silent went on to become super townie during D2, then modconfirmed just before deadline. So it's probably better I murdered Grack than shot a guy that would become a confirmed town later. To be fair, if you didn't do that I would have gotten both of you killed. I had it setup that way, your early claim when I was AFK saved you because I couldn't CC like I wanted to in case either of you or Grac was a blue role. I just didn't suspect that you would shot him or vice verse if that was the case. So you kinda ruined my plan.
Bro it's good to be confident but I would have never been lynched over you. Never. It would have been a mistake to CC me.
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I played laid back D1 because I was vig, so I would be confirmed town D2 and I didn't want to risk being killed + roleblocked N1 by being super townie. So that's why people could scumread me. After N1 ended I was unlynchable.
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On August 11 2016 17:52 Rels wrote:
I played laid back D1 because I was vig, so I would be confirmed town D2 and I didn't want to risk being killed + roleblocked N1 by being super townie. So that's why people could scumread me. After N1 ended I was unlynchable.
My point being, that if you were a VT, I would have gotten you killed easy. Don't overestimate your power. The whole Grac/Rels thing would have been super easy to pin a mafia between the two of you.
The only way for you to survive a misslynch was to do what you did.
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On August 11 2016 18:35 Lunaticman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 17:52 Rels wrote:
I played laid back D1 because I was vig, so I would be confirmed town D2 and I didn't want to risk being killed + roleblocked N1 by being super townie. So that's why people could scumread me. After N1 ended I was unlynchable. My point being, that if you were a VT, I would have gotten you killed easy. Don't overestimate your power. The whole Grac/Rels thing would have been super easy to pin a mafia between the two of you. The only way for you to survive a misslynch was to do what you did.
The point is that I wouldn't have AFKd 46 hours of D1 if I was VT. But even if I did that, I disagree that lynching me was going to be an easy thing to do, especially since you didn't have time D2.
You're going about this the wrong way about this: just because people thought Grack and I were super scummy during D1 doesn't mean that one of us was going to be the lynch D2 (assuming we were both VT and alive D2). A mafia game just doesn't work like that. As scum, you shouldn't be stuck on one path to victory. It's an easy (and normal) mistake to make.
Imagine if Grack and I became super townie D2. The mistake you could have made, seeing your posts, if that you continue to tunnel the both of us all day, showing a scum mentality: townies look for scum and WILL re evaluate a lot over the course of the game; it's almost impossible for a townie to be 100% right D1/N1. Scum have a tendency to think a lot more about who they want to push, decide who is the perfect lynch, and get stuck with their reads. It's a mistake a lot of newbies (and vet actually) scum make.
So no, just because you had killer cases on Grack / I N1 doesn't mean you would have mislynched the both of us starting D2. It's possible that you would have made it work; but it's also possible that you would become obvious scum incapable of re evaluating in the face of new evidences.
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In case anyone's interested, here's my coach QT with BTDT.
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WHERE IS IT
/e oh wow link colors
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ahoy Artanis. I believe I owe you some whisky...
....or as you don't (didn't?) drink, you can also just forward it to your whisky loving Tina  <3
Basil Hayden sound good? I know it's also Shapelog's favourite, or one of his.
Not sure what Tina fancies tbh xD
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On August 11 2016 17:32 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 17:24 Rels wrote:On August 11 2016 17:21 disformation wrote:
yo rels your shot on grack was so anti-town i wss convinced you were scum fake claiming, unzil cele explained why this wozld be the worst scum play ever I had to shoot him. He duelled me. PEW PEW I agree it was an objectively bad shot BUT I would have shot silent if not Grack. And silent went on to become super townie during D2, then modconfirmed just before deadline. So it's probably better I murdered Grack than shot a guy that would become a confirmed town later. mental note to myself: dont duel rels
unless he'd had crumbed vigilante somewhere Grackaroni would have had zero way of knowing this...unless I'm misunderstanding something.
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Pretty good writeup Shape. Looking forward to the individual caps.
Think I've said my peace on the Luna claim, so on to town play...
I do agree on Celestial being MVP just trying to drive the game forward, I think what happened between him and SW and whoever else, there were scumreads for people thinking differently but not necessarily in a way that is actually scum.
D1 for instance, Grackaroni was illogical (can't remember the post offhand) but it was not something entirely scummy. To use another general example, tinfoiling mafia teams is not necessarily scummy especially if you are using meta points (or as Scott raised against Celestial, NK wifom, but hey it was still wifom). But it's a common issue with newbies and even open players, separating indirect/illogical/suboptimal play from mafia play. Just noting I remember reading several instances of this d1/d2.
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EPT
