|
On August 10 2016 06:49 -Celestial- wrote:Thank god for that. Best wishes, don't apologise. Stuff happens.
This. Real life is more important than mafia. I hope she will recover.
The only person I'm disappointed in is Moosy. He posted in thread the day he was modkilled. It was auto-lynch, scum had no tactical advantage or disadvantage.
Luna did very well for the little time he could play (he was telling me that he had 18-24 hour shifts when he was working) and his trade-in should have been scruntinised more, I told him in the (coaching) QT that he had to do what he had to do and it was KSC's fault in the extent that his play did not support his claim.
GGs everyone.
|
Reading obs QT.
Yes Mage, I was mafia coach.
Yes Mage, the whiskey was flowing when we got KSC mislynched.
I had two shots of Talisker, Luna had two Red Bull vodkas, and the mods even crashed the coaching QT to park on whiskey (I blame the votecounts, they weren't partial.)
Also you going on about me drinking when I'm mafia aligned (in any way) - this coming from someone who drank wine with Fidei when you guys MLed perfectly in NSM18.....rich, very rich. >_<
|
On August 10 2016 06:55 Rels wrote:Since it's a newbie game, here is a little bit of coaching time. During late D2 / N2 I thought BTDT was auto-mafia and here is why. During D2 before the last 1h30, Lunatic was looking to be the lynch 100%. So of course he's gonna get bussed. That means it was a good opportunity to see how people reacted to that lynch. People that took the time to think about stuff instead of being sheeps were likely town: silent, Celestial, Skynx. People that were kinda useless and just sheeped were potential scum: JRoc, Moosy, scott. People that wrote that post was 95% scum: Show nested quote +On August 05 2016 02:45 beentheredonethat wrote:
Having read your post, I find it highly interesting that you get me into a connection with Lunatic, given that I voted him D1 and didnt stop to bring him up to people's conciousness again and again.
Youre relucting to vote Lunatic or at least I take that from your wording. Why? Also, I feel like youre wrong on scott, he's in my town circle. He's fairly actice, pushy, and I can see where most of his reads come from.
I actually let go of my town lean of you. If Lunatic flips red, I can easily see you bussing here to gain towncred. I am also a bit paranoid about a scott, you and lunatic team but for now the only reason to add Scott to that list is the pterequisite that you are scum, so its highly associative.
Makes sense though. I am still having headaches from MoosyDoosy, too. But yeah.
This day should end with a Lunatic lynch. If Kelsier survives the night, He should be the lynch next day. We'll most likely loose Rels as uncced vig though so Kelsier surviving should be NAI... but yeah hes not contributing at all although he WAS in the thread. BTDT didn't try to find any reason for Lunatic to be scum during D2; but he's voting him and is already treating Lunatic as super likely to flip scum + drawing teams about that fact. To expand, here is what BTDT could do in this position: Town motivated: Looking ot see IF Lunatic is really scum (like silent / Celestial / me) OR try to find people more likely to flip scum than Lunatic (like Skynx). Scum motivated: See the Lunatic's scum flip as unstoppable and prepare the post-lynch by drawing associations with other people. BTDT did the scum motivated thing here. I should have explained it better before getting killed but seeing as everybody was scumreading BTDT when I was still alive, I did not think it was necessary. Should have done that. We definitely would have lost without that Moosy modkill, and even with it it would have been a close game.
100%
It was looking like a "finish the bottle" (read: endgame) situation after Luna got town to perpetual mylo but I started to panic when under 20 minutes Moosy still hadn't voted and I'm like noooooooooooooooooooooooo.
BTDT was poor from the votes, and I was also waiting for someone to do detailed VC but that didn't happen.
|
On August 10 2016 07:35 silentwarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 07:08 -Celestial- wrote:On August 10 2016 06:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
A useful tip is that when someone is right all the time when everyone else is wrong all the time, the guy that's right all the time is probably mafia. Yup; one thing I picked up from live games in years gone by was basically along the lines of "wrong does not necessarily equal mafia". I tended to find people would always get hung up on people making wrong reads, especially in face-to-face sessions. Rather than thinking about why they were making that read and whether it was for garbage reasons. I was going to post that earlier in big letters but kinda felt that if I posted something so blatant people would think I was trying to wriggle out of being accused in a crappy way. Then again I wish that someone, ANYONE, who had tried to pick me for scum had actually tried to pick a hole in my arguments anywhere rather than just going "yep, scum". There was a reason I tried to provide a basis for all my reads for people to evaluate.  This is suprising to read since the biggest reason I didn't like you in the game was because you went after people you disagreed with or who had done a mislynch or the like. I even said so in-game several times.
???
Disagreeing with people or doing mislynches is never enough reason to scum them by itself. What it IS enough to do is to get me looking at their filter again to see if I either missed something that they brought up about that person, or to see if their tone and/or reasoning doesn't hold up too well. Which I did, repeatedly, every time someone did something odd. (Something of an advantage over live play, you have filters to double-check back on.)
Problem was with like a third of the game being basically afk for big chunks and another third of the game posting super weirdly all over the place I kept running into scummy things in basically EVERYONE'S filter. Which made it near impossible to draw decisive conclusions. Once or twice when doing some analysis I actually ended up with the conclusion that EVERYONE IN THE GAME was scum. Which necessitated me starting over with the filtering and analysis because it was obviously impossible for that to be the case.
I mean...its literally all in my read posts and filter dives. I don't know what to say here. Did you read them? I mean, did anyone read them, considering I don't think anyone challenged any of it? :-\
|
On August 10 2016 08:36 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 07:35 silentwarrior wrote:On August 10 2016 07:08 -Celestial- wrote:On August 10 2016 06:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
A useful tip is that when someone is right all the time when everyone else is wrong all the time, the guy that's right all the time is probably mafia. Yup; one thing I picked up from live games in years gone by was basically along the lines of "wrong does not necessarily equal mafia". I tended to find people would always get hung up on people making wrong reads, especially in face-to-face sessions. Rather than thinking about why they were making that read and whether it was for garbage reasons. I was going to post that earlier in big letters but kinda felt that if I posted something so blatant people would think I was trying to wriggle out of being accused in a crappy way. Then again I wish that someone, ANYONE, who had tried to pick me for scum had actually tried to pick a hole in my arguments anywhere rather than just going "yep, scum". There was a reason I tried to provide a basis for all my reads for people to evaluate. This is suprising to read since the biggest reason I didn't like you in the game was because you went after people you disagreed with or who had done a mislynch or the like. I even said so in-game several times. ??? Disagreeing with people or doing mislynches is never enough reason to scum them by itself. What it IS enough to do is to get me looking at their filter again to see if I either missed something that they brought up about that person, or to see if their tone and/or reasoning doesn't hold up too well. Which I did, repeatedly, every time someone did something odd. (Something of an advantage over live play, you have filters to double-check back on.) Problem was with like a third of the game being basically afk for big chunks and another third of the game posting super weirdly all over the place I kept running into scummy things in basically EVERYONE'S filter. Which made it near impossible to draw decisive conclusions. Once or twice when doing some analysis I actually ended up with the conclusion that EVERYONE IN THE GAME was scum. Which necessitated me starting over with the filtering and analysis because it was obviously impossible for that to be the case. I mean...its literally all in my read posts and filter dives. I don't know what to say here. Did you read them? I mean, did anyone read them, considering I don't think anyone challenged any of it? :-\
In fact in at least some cases I was doing the exact opposite, not liking people's reads but liking the reason for it and the tone behind it.
|
Checked silent's and my own filter briefly.
"I even said so in-game several times."
As far as I can tell every time you 'called me out' for this you were actually just ignoring parts of my reasoning behind my reads. :-\
|
Okay had time to take a look through obs QT.
To address a thing from there (because I'm not sure if I should be posting in there now even if the game is over). Which I already mentioned in-thread but might have been missed:
rsoultin in post 89 - if you're talking about what I think you're talking about the mislynch argument with the association flip was basically a massive derp on my part.
I counted as follows:
9 players, 6 town, 3 mafia
6-3
Lose one N2.
5-3
Lynch Lunatic D3.
5-2
Then I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THE NIGHT KILL FOR N3. Which meant I thought "oh great, a mislynch and a NK and we're still at 3-2 by D5".
I wasn't scared of a D4 mislynch because it would end the game (because I didn't think it would end the game), I was scared of a D4 mislynch that wasn't actually me but that would put me as top candidate for mislynch on D5 (when I thought a mislynch would end the game) because I wasn't 100% sure I'd be able to keep activity up for D5 since I go on holiday this Friday and have to prepare and stuff. So I couldn't be certain I'd be about to fight a potential mislynch. I'd have rather been mislynched on D4 where it wasn't fatal for town, and hope that my flip would be informative for some of the remaining town.
As it was that whole argument was academic because I'd totally miscounted. X-D
|
Yeah sorry for activity btw I wanted to keep it up but my son had his tonsils out and because he has a tracheotomy and a G tube he had to stay 2 nights in the hospital while the game was going on and it wore me out and I ended up sleeping alot and taking extra pain meds.
|
Yes, Shapelog, everyone is doing better  I dont want to spam up the TL ban thread unless it's juicy drama. 
|
Hope your daughter is all good btdt...
Moosy played well this game I have to give it. Grack/silent association got me so much between that trio but it was btdt all along eh.
His D4 push on me was so forced but Scott wasn't doing anything so it wasn't totally scummy by him until I got nk'd.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Shapelog [ 4504 posts | Profile | Report ] Subject: Re: OBs Date: 8/9/16 19:47 *slow clap* Original Message From Skynx: btdt 100% last scum, he waited 3 months to make a wifom last stand kill since our loss. Can you just put it there for postgame brag? Hide nested quote - Original Message From Shapelog: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/L6y2aFMNDMy Reply
WP on Lunatic lynch. I really should give meta less credit.
Also please someone teach me how to handle claims...
|
On August 10 2016 08:26 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 06:55 Rels wrote:Since it's a newbie game, here is a little bit of coaching time. During late D2 / N2 I thought BTDT was auto-mafia and here is why. During D2 before the last 1h30, Lunatic was looking to be the lynch 100%. So of course he's gonna get bussed. That means it was a good opportunity to see how people reacted to that lynch. People that took the time to think about stuff instead of being sheeps were likely town: silent, Celestial, Skynx. People that were kinda useless and just sheeped were potential scum: JRoc, Moosy, scott. People that wrote that post was 95% scum: On August 05 2016 02:45 beentheredonethat wrote:
Having read your post, I find it highly interesting that you get me into a connection with Lunatic, given that I voted him D1 and didnt stop to bring him up to people's conciousness again and again.
Youre relucting to vote Lunatic or at least I take that from your wording. Why? Also, I feel like youre wrong on scott, he's in my town circle. He's fairly actice, pushy, and I can see where most of his reads come from.
I actually let go of my town lean of you. If Lunatic flips red, I can easily see you bussing here to gain towncred. I am also a bit paranoid about a scott, you and lunatic team but for now the only reason to add Scott to that list is the pterequisite that you are scum, so its highly associative.
Makes sense though. I am still having headaches from MoosyDoosy, too. But yeah.
This day should end with a Lunatic lynch. If Kelsier survives the night, He should be the lynch next day. We'll most likely loose Rels as uncced vig though so Kelsier surviving should be NAI... but yeah hes not contributing at all although he WAS in the thread. BTDT didn't try to find any reason for Lunatic to be scum during D2; but he's voting him and is already treating Lunatic as super likely to flip scum + drawing teams about that fact. To expand, here is what BTDT could do in this position: Town motivated: Looking ot see IF Lunatic is really scum (like silent / Celestial / me) OR try to find people more likely to flip scum than Lunatic (like Skynx). Scum motivated: See the Lunatic's scum flip as unstoppable and prepare the post-lynch by drawing associations with other people. BTDT did the scum motivated thing here. I should have explained it better before getting killed but seeing as everybody was scumreading BTDT when I was still alive, I did not think it was necessary. Should have done that. We definitely would have lost without that Moosy modkill, and even with it it would have been a close game. 100% It was looking like a "finish the bottle" (read: endgame) situation after Luna got town to perpetual mylo but I started to panic when under 20 minutes Moosy still hadn't voted and I'm like noooooooooooooooooooooooo. BTDT was poor from the votes, and I was also waiting for someone to do detailed VC but that didn't happen.
I wanted to bring vca for d1 because if silent lynched town,I was last one outside of two town wagons and when I saw this l didnt dare. Im reading because after tje panic everything is good now and tbh Hospital gets boring. She sleeps a lot thank god
|
|
|
On August 10 2016 09:06 -Celestial- wrote:
Okay had time to take a look through obs QT.
To address a thing from there (because I'm not sure if I should be posting in there now even if the game is over). Which I already mentioned in-thread but might have been missed:
rsoultin in post 89 - if you're talking about what I think you're talking about the mislynch argument with the association flip was basically a massive derp on my part.
I counted as follows:
9 players, 6 town, 3 mafia
6-3
Lose one N2.
5-3
Lynch Lunatic D3.
5-2
Then I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THE NIGHT KILL FOR N3. Which meant I thought "oh great, a mislynch and a NK and we're still at 3-2 by D5".
I wasn't scared of a D4 mislynch because it would end the game (because I didn't think it would end the game), I was scared of a D4 mislynch that wasn't actually me but that would put me as top candidate for mislynch on D5 (when I thought a mislynch would end the game) because I wasn't 100% sure I'd be able to keep activity up for D5 since I go on holiday this Friday and have to prepare and stuff. So I couldn't be certain I'd be about to fight a potential mislynch. I'd have rather been mislynched on D4 where it wasn't fatal for town, and hope that my flip would be informative for some of the remaining town.
As it was that whole argument was academic because I'd totally miscounted. X-D
You need to be very careful with "it doesn't make sense for scum to do X" arguments. Scum often will do these things simply because people over-townread for them. Townreading lynchbait is a common mafia strategy; it makes you look good if they get lynched, and if they don't get lynched, the lynchbait will probably defend you. Remember that opposing a lynch doesn't mean it'll never happen, just like favouring a lynch doesn't mean it'll happen. Reading into thread sentiment and figuring out where you can scumread scum and townread town whilst still getting town lynched is a line that good scum will try to traverse.
|
I just want to say that I got kinda pissed that Moosy went afk and got modkilled. I think BT played beautiful and would have won unless he had to go to the hospital.
Had Moosy not got modkilled it is very possible mafia would have won day 4. So tbh this was a moral victory for mafia but gg.
|
On August 10 2016 09:06 -Celestial- wrote:
Okay had time to take a look through obs QT.
To address a thing from there (because I'm not sure if I should be posting in there now even if the game is over). Which I already mentioned in-thread but might have been missed:
rsoultin in post 89 - if you're talking about what I think you're talking about the mislynch argument with the association flip was basically a massive derp on my part.
I counted as follows:
9 players, 6 town, 3 mafia
6-3
Lose one N2.
5-3
Lynch Lunatic D3.
5-2
Then I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT THE NIGHT KILL FOR N3. Which meant I thought "oh great, a mislynch and a NK and we're still at 3-2 by D5".
I wasn't scared of a D4 mislynch because it would end the game (because I didn't think it would end the game), I was scared of a D4 mislynch that wasn't actually me but that would put me as top candidate for mislynch on D5 (when I thought a mislynch would end the game) because I wasn't 100% sure I'd be able to keep activity up for D5 since I go on holiday this Friday and have to prepare and stuff. So I couldn't be certain I'd be about to fight a potential mislynch. I'd have rather been mislynched on D4 where it wasn't fatal for town, and hope that my flip would be informative for some of the remaining town.
As it was that whole argument was academic because I'd totally miscounted. X-D
just be careful what you base your townreads on or you'll end up like me
lynching players i used to be sure were town/green checks cause i was absolutely convinced that the scum would buss a certain way so playerX couldn't be scum! got on the right track at the end but by then it was a mess and i'd caused a lot of needless mislynches lol
|
On August 10 2016 19:05 Lunaticman wrote:
I just want to say that I got kinda pissed that Moosy went afk and got modkilled. I think BT played beautiful and would have won unless he had to go to the hospital.
Had Moosy not got modkilled it is very possible mafia would have won day 4. So tbh this was a moral victory for mafia but gg.
Btdt would probably have won, but Moosy would probably have been lynched D4 anyway. He was my biggest scumread by a big margin at that point. Also, find it funny you wanted me modkilled in obv when I did nothing wrong.
|
One small note before I forget.
Kelsier, what you do is literally 100 times worse than whatever tactics sl or moosy employ d1 on regular basis. You just straight up don't play the game as a tactic I suppose (?) then come back to claim if you are actually blue/vote yourself or anything along that kind of bullshit. You did this in both games I played with you, you just declare your disinterest in the game and say you won't post at all.
You ignore the spirit of competition and outright disrespect everyone else who put time and effort into the game. I don't even know why you sign up to games. If you have any motivation other than to ruin the game for everyone else please tell so we can judge you based on that.
Until then, go fuck yourself.
|
On August 10 2016 21:17 Skynx wrote:
One small note before I forget.
Kelsier, what you do is literally 100 times worse than whatever tactics sl or moosy employ d1 on regular basis. You just straight up don't play the game as a tactic I suppose (?) then come back to claim if you are actually blue/vote yourself or anything along that kind of bullshit. You did this in both games I played with you, you just declare your disinterest in the game and say you won't post at all.
You ignore the spirit of competition and outright disrespect everyone else who put time and effort into the game. I don't even know why you sign up to games. If you have any motivation other than to ruin the game for everyone else please tell so we can judge you based on that.
Until then, go fuck yourself.
i believe he said he was leaving skynx
-pets- it's okay! you'll find that there are people who chronically sign up with short time, and then you just don't sign up with them or accept that it's unlikely to change
that's actually the main reason i don't play much anymore: time. that and lex (artanis) and i can't play together lol >< i'm worse than him but we can't keep our alignments from each other for the most part
|
On August 10 2016 21:20 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 21:17 Skynx wrote:
One small note before I forget.
Kelsier, what you do is literally 100 times worse than whatever tactics sl or moosy employ d1 on regular basis. You just straight up don't play the game as a tactic I suppose (?) then come back to claim if you are actually blue/vote yourself or anything along that kind of bullshit. You did this in both games I played with you, you just declare your disinterest in the game and say you won't post at all.
You ignore the spirit of competition and outright disrespect everyone else who put time and effort into the game. I don't even know why you sign up to games. If you have any motivation other than to ruin the game for everyone else please tell so we can judge you based on that.
Until then, go fuck yourself. i believe he said he was leaving skynx -pets- it's okay! you'll find that there are people who chronically sign up with short time, and then you just don't sign up with them or accept that it's unlikely to change that's actually the main reason i don't play much anymore: time. that and lex (artanis) and i can't play together lol >< i'm worse than him but we can't keep our alignments from each other for the most part
That's not true >>
|
On August 10 2016 21:00 silentwarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 19:05 Lunaticman wrote:
I just want to say that I got kinda pissed that Moosy went afk and got modkilled. I think BT played beautiful and would have won unless he had to go to the hospital.
Had Moosy not got modkilled it is very possible mafia would have won day 4. So tbh this was a moral victory for mafia but gg. Btdt would probably have won, but Moosy would probably have been lynched D4 anyway. He was my biggest scumread by a big margin at that point. Also, find it funny you wanted me modkilled in obv when I did nothing wrong.
It's because the town gained information from a mod. It had nothing to do with you per say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
