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On June 29 2016 04:47 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 04:43 GlowingBear wrote:
Damdy, if you get lynched, who should be the next one to be lynched? Jealous I had a list in another post but I'd reevaluate people's motives after that.
If I put in all that effort to lynch you and you flip green, then "there's no way over tomorrow" for me either, so wouldn't it be a poor strategy to hunt you down if I was scum? There are already some votes headed your way, and I had already scumleaned you at the end of D1. No one would have suspected anything if I just voted for you. Your read makes no sense in this context, nor did it really ever.
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On June 29 2016 04:56 Shapelog wrote:
Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (2): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
Damdred is counted twice.
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On June 29 2016 04:57 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 04:56 Shapelog wrote:
Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (2): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
Damdred is counted twice.
Also the timer hasn't been adjusted.
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Anyway, Damdred, let's say that these are the final votes going into EoD: What do you think will happen when I flip green? Who should be lynched after that, if not you, and why?
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On June 29 2016 04:57 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 04:56 Shapelog wrote:
Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (2): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
Damdred is counted twice.
Typical American politics my friend.
The people voted in Jean, but the Electoral Collage decided the double vote goes to Damdred...
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Okay, everyone, listen. There's one thing I know for certain. Absolute certain.
Damdred is town.
I'm going to try to explain why. I want everyone to read this post and let it actually sink in. Think about it for half an hour or something to avoid kneejerk/tunnel replies.
People aren't mafia because of inconsistencies. Town tends to be much more inconsistent than scum. People also aren't mafia because they happened to do things that aligned with mafia objectives.
People are mafia because they're mafia.
That sounds incredibly obvious, but it's something we often forget. Lots of these cases on Damdred revolve around proving he's been inconsistent, or doing things that fit mafia objectives, but it doesn't matter because they never asked the fundamental question: Is Damdred capable of playing this way as mafia?
Answer: He is most assuredly not. I've got a decent amount of experience playing with Damdred, including in one of the longest and hardest scumgames there was. We had a team of Damdred, Ritoky, Superbia, Marvellosity and myself and the thread was over 600 pages long, yet there were often moments where it was difficult for any of us to get motivated to play. There were moments where we wanted to resign, and probably would've if it wasn't for each other and the good position we were in. It is my fundamental belief that Damdred would've given up already a long time ago.
On top of this, as I've stated, Damdred is notoriously bad for faking emotion. When he's suspected as mafia, he often becomes trolly/happy because he doesn't like playing scum. This is especially true when his team sucks (which would've been the case here). As town, he becomes emo/unhappy and it either motivates him enough to try harder, or he just gives up and votes himself. In this case given the way the game's been going, it's been the former. We've seen plenty of examples of how Damdred's been unhappy littered throughout the game and they came at the moments you'd expect. Damdred's tried faking emotion before and it wasn't particularly believable. He's just not very good at it.
The Damdred of this game has had an extremely natural progression in terms of emotions and tones that he could not fake. He doesn't like playing scum and surrenders when it's impossible to win.
Damdred is not mafia this game, and I plead for you to believe me on that. I believe Jealous is, though I'm not quite certain on it. I do know Damdred is going to flip green.
Please take a bit of time to take this post in and don't give a kneejerk response to it.
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(Correct)Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (1): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
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On June 29 2016 05:18 Shapelog wrote:
(Correct)Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (1): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
Pretty sure Jean Valjean's vote counts as 2 votes still, no? I just meant that you had Damdred listed twice.
Also, the timer is still wrong because the date inside the countdown is still 6/26. It should be like this:
[countdown]06/29/2016 23:00CEST[/countdown]
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On June 29 2016 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Okay, everyone, listen. There's one thing I know for certain. Absolute certain. Damdred is town.I'm going to try to explain why. I want everyone to read this post and let it actually sink in. Think about it for half an hour or something to avoid kneejerk/tunnel replies. People aren't mafia because of inconsistencies. Town tends to be much more inconsistent than scum. People also aren't mafia because they happened to do things that aligned with mafia objectives. People are mafia because they're mafia. That sounds incredibly obvious, but it's something we often forget. Lots of these cases on Damdred revolve around proving he's been inconsistent, or doing things that fit mafia objectives, but it doesn't matter because they never asked the fundamental question: Is Damdred capable of playing this way as mafia?Answer: He is most assuredly not. I've got a decent amount of experience playing with Damdred, including in one of the longest and hardest scumgames there was. We had a team of Damdred, Ritoky, Superbia, Marvellosity and myself and the thread was over 600 pages long, yet there were often moments where it was difficult for any of us to get motivated to play. There were moments where we wanted to resign, and probably would've if it wasn't for each other and the good position we were in. It is my fundamental belief that Damdred would've given up already a long time ago. On top of this, as I've stated, Damdred is notoriously bad for faking emotion. When he's suspected as mafia, he often becomes trolly/happy because he doesn't like playing scum. This is especially true when his team sucks (which would've been the case here). As town, he becomes emo/unhappy and it either motivates him enough to try harder, or he just gives up and votes himself. In this case given the way the game's been going, it's been the former. We've seen plenty of examples of how Damdred's been unhappy littered throughout the game and they came at the moments you'd expect. Damdred's tried faking emotion before and it wasn't particularly believable. He's just not very good at it. The Damdred of this game has had an extremely natural progression in terms of emotions and tones that he could not fake. He doesn't like playing scum and surrenders when it's impossible to win. Damdred is not mafia this game, and I plead for you to believe me on that. I believe Jealous is, though I'm not quite certain on it. I do know Damdred is going to flip green. Please take a bit of time to take this post in and don't give a kneejerk response to it.
I won't really take the 30 minutes necessary because the majority of your reasoning is meant to appeal to veterans and people with direct experience with Damdred, which means there is no way for me to refute them or support them.
I just want to say that these meta reads are all very lame. Your entire play so far in this game has been meta-based and you pushed the few people you have no background information on (QT, myself). This is really weak in my opinion. You refuse to look at certain people based on God-knows-what, you place weight on prior experience working WITH the person without considering that perhaps they have changed their approach knowing full well that they can't be the same person they were when they were scum with you, because that'd be too obvious. In fact, you are talking down to Damdred about his abilities as a player (even though he is "one of the best" by his own words) if you think his persona is so static and predictable.
Please, look within the confines of the game.
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Also, the only two ways you'd be absolutely certain that Damdred is town is if you are a cop or if you are scum. Your meta reads aren't worth the pixels they are written on to me, so either claim one of the above or make a better argument as to why his behavior in the game is "inconsistent and adheres with mafia goals, therefore town."
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A better argument as to why I am scum would be welcome too; maybe you should do some actual investigative work on Damdred and myself and not just go off "feels."
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On June 29 2016 05:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Okay, everyone, listen. There's one thing I know for certain. Absolute certain. Damdred is town.I'm going to try to explain why. I want everyone to read this post and let it actually sink in. Think about it for half an hour or something to avoid kneejerk/tunnel replies. People aren't mafia because of inconsistencies. Town tends to be much more inconsistent than scum. People also aren't mafia because they happened to do things that aligned with mafia objectives. People are mafia because they're mafia. That sounds incredibly obvious, but it's something we often forget. Lots of these cases on Damdred revolve around proving he's been inconsistent, or doing things that fit mafia objectives, but it doesn't matter because they never asked the fundamental question: Is Damdred capable of playing this way as mafia?Answer: He is most assuredly not. I've got a decent amount of experience playing with Damdred, including in one of the longest and hardest scumgames there was. We had a team of Damdred, Ritoky, Superbia, Marvellosity and myself and the thread was over 600 pages long, yet there were often moments where it was difficult for any of us to get motivated to play. There were moments where we wanted to resign, and probably would've if it wasn't for each other and the good position we were in. It is my fundamental belief that Damdred would've given up already a long time ago. On top of this, as I've stated, Damdred is notoriously bad for faking emotion. When he's suspected as mafia, he often becomes trolly/happy because he doesn't like playing scum. This is especially true when his team sucks (which would've been the case here). As town, he becomes emo/unhappy and it either motivates him enough to try harder, or he just gives up and votes himself. In this case given the way the game's been going, it's been the former. We've seen plenty of examples of how Damdred's been unhappy littered throughout the game and they came at the moments you'd expect. Damdred's tried faking emotion before and it wasn't particularly believable. He's just not very good at it. The Damdred of this game has had an extremely natural progression in terms of emotions and tones that he could not fake. He doesn't like playing scum and surrenders when it's impossible to win. Damdred is not mafia this game, and I plead for you to believe me on that. I believe Jealous is, though I'm not quite certain on it. I do know Damdred is going to flip green. Please take a bit of time to take this post in and don't give a kneejerk response to it. I won't really take the 30 minutes necessary because the majority of your reasoning is meant to appeal to veterans and people with direct experience with Damdred, which means there is no way for me to refute them or support them. I just want to say that these meta reads are all very lame. Your entire play so far in this game has been meta-based and you pushed the few people you have no background information on (QT, myself). This is really weak in my opinion. You refuse to look at certain people based on God-knows-what, you place weight on prior experience working WITH the person without considering that perhaps they have changed their approach knowing full well that they can't be the same person they were when they were scum with you, because that'd be too obvious. In fact, you are talking down to Damdred about his abilities as a player (even though he is "one of the best" by his own words) if you think his persona is so static and predictable. Please, look within the confines of the game.
It doesn't really matter whether you think they're lame or not, they're correct. Damdred and I can't both be mafia so either my reasoning is 100% sincere, or he's Town anyway. Since I'm being sincere, you can be certain that I'm not trying to mess you about or fuck with you.
There's certain things you know about a player after playing with them for long enough that they can't change, or are just innate to them. I'm not saying he can't play a great scumgame; I'm saying he can't play this scumgame with this team. I believe that to be entirely impossible.
Furthermore, given I've pushed people that I haven't played with (and also used non-meta reasons), clearly it's not my entire play. It's a major part because all that matters is whether players are capable of playing the game they're currently playing as mafia. If the answer is no, you know their alignment.
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I'm sorry you can't get your mislynch based on logic. You've got some good logic going on and I'm sure it's frustrating to lose out on a mislynch this way. Not something you don't deserve with the way you're playing but mafia is a cruel game and sometimes people are town for reasons that suck, but make them clear town nonetheless.
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On June 29 2016 05:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2016 05:29 Jealous wrote:On June 29 2016 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Okay, everyone, listen. There's one thing I know for certain. Absolute certain. Damdred is town.I'm going to try to explain why. I want everyone to read this post and let it actually sink in. Think about it for half an hour or something to avoid kneejerk/tunnel replies. People aren't mafia because of inconsistencies. Town tends to be much more inconsistent than scum. People also aren't mafia because they happened to do things that aligned with mafia objectives. People are mafia because they're mafia. That sounds incredibly obvious, but it's something we often forget. Lots of these cases on Damdred revolve around proving he's been inconsistent, or doing things that fit mafia objectives, but it doesn't matter because they never asked the fundamental question: Is Damdred capable of playing this way as mafia?Answer: He is most assuredly not. I've got a decent amount of experience playing with Damdred, including in one of the longest and hardest scumgames there was. We had a team of Damdred, Ritoky, Superbia, Marvellosity and myself and the thread was over 600 pages long, yet there were often moments where it was difficult for any of us to get motivated to play. There were moments where we wanted to resign, and probably would've if it wasn't for each other and the good position we were in. It is my fundamental belief that Damdred would've given up already a long time ago. On top of this, as I've stated, Damdred is notoriously bad for faking emotion. When he's suspected as mafia, he often becomes trolly/happy because he doesn't like playing scum. This is especially true when his team sucks (which would've been the case here). As town, he becomes emo/unhappy and it either motivates him enough to try harder, or he just gives up and votes himself. In this case given the way the game's been going, it's been the former. We've seen plenty of examples of how Damdred's been unhappy littered throughout the game and they came at the moments you'd expect. Damdred's tried faking emotion before and it wasn't particularly believable. He's just not very good at it. The Damdred of this game has had an extremely natural progression in terms of emotions and tones that he could not fake. He doesn't like playing scum and surrenders when it's impossible to win. Damdred is not mafia this game, and I plead for you to believe me on that. I believe Jealous is, though I'm not quite certain on it. I do know Damdred is going to flip green. Please take a bit of time to take this post in and don't give a kneejerk response to it. I won't really take the 30 minutes necessary because the majority of your reasoning is meant to appeal to veterans and people with direct experience with Damdred, which means there is no way for me to refute them or support them. I just want to say that these meta reads are all very lame. Your entire play so far in this game has been meta-based and you pushed the few people you have no background information on (QT, myself). This is really weak in my opinion. You refuse to look at certain people based on God-knows-what, you place weight on prior experience working WITH the person without considering that perhaps they have changed their approach knowing full well that they can't be the same person they were when they were scum with you, because that'd be too obvious. In fact, you are talking down to Damdred about his abilities as a player (even though he is "one of the best" by his own words) if you think his persona is so static and predictable. Please, look within the confines of the game. It doesn't really matter whether you think they're lame or not, they're correct. Damdred and I can't both be mafia so either my reasoning is 100% sincere, or he's Town anyway. Since I'm being sincere, you can be certain that I'm not trying to mess you about or fuck with you.There's certain things you know about a player after playing with them for long enough that they can't change, or are just innate to them. I'm not saying he can't play a great scumgame; I'm saying he can't play this scumgame with this team. I believe that to be entirely impossible. Furthermore, given I've pushed people that I haven't played with (and also used non-meta reasons), clearly it's not my entire play. It's a major part because all that matters is whether players are capable of playing the game they're currently playing as mafia. If the answer is no, you know their alignment.
1. I agree with this. I do believe your reasoning is sincere in the sense that you truly believe it. I also don't trust your reasoning because I can't trust someone who blindly pockets people (Chezinu).
2. I understand where you're coming from, but “overconfidence precedes carelessness.” You are so confident in your subjective experience and understanding of the people behind the aliases on this site that you are willing to overlook concrete evidence.
On June 29 2016 05:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm sorry you can't get your mislynch based on logic. You've got some good logic going on and I'm sure it's frustrating to lose out on a mislynch this way. Not something you don't deserve with the way you're playing but mafia is a cruel game and sometimes people are town for reasons that suck, but make them clear town nonetheless.
I like how you use "your mislynch" to further incriminate me in the eyes of the reader. I am only pursuing this because 1. I've "got some good logic going" and 2. I, like you, and truly sincere in my analysis. This is the clearest scum to me right now so I'm pushing it with tangible evidence at a time when everyone else seems to be dozing besides Superbia and TT. I'm doing this for the good of town. As I mentioned earlier, if I do all of this and Damdred were by chance to flip green, wouldn't that look terrible for me if all I had to do was vote for him and cite my D1 reads? I might not be an experienced player and therefore not a strong player, but I'm not retarded and even I can see cause-and-effect on an a->b level.
Speaking of which, if you were scum and Damdred does get lynched and he is green, that would look great for you, wouldn't it? You made such an impassioned case with pretty formatting and an appeal to the in-circle of TL Mafia. If you were scum and I got lynched and flipped town, that might be a slight hindrance to you but nothing you wouldn't be able to work your way out of considering so many others are also on this wagon and because you have pocket buttbuddies in Chezinu and possibly Damdred (from his posts, at least).
This is an interesting hypothetical, something I'd want to explore if Damdred does indeed flip green, which I doubt. For now, I'm sticking to my guns. It's won one game, it may win another.
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Oh, and I bolded the "Not something you don't deserve with the way you're playing," but I forgot to ask - what do you mean?
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Fuck this I can't vote for Damdred this game
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Artanis my reasoning behind scumreading damdy is far from his inconsistencies.
It is much more because of his siding with EC and his reaction to my named VT claim
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On June 29 2016 05:54 Tumblewood wrote:
Fuck this I can't vote for Damdred this game
Explain?
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On June 29 2016 04:56 Shapelog wrote:
(Correct)Day 2 Vote Count
Jealous(4): Artanis[Xp], Superbia, Damdred. Tumblewood
Damdred(3): Tictock, Skynx, Jealous
Tictock (1): Superbia, Artanis[Xp], Skynx, Jean Valijean, Jealous, Damdred
Not voting (1), Chezinu
Currently, Jealous, Is set to be lynched!
Day 2 ends Wednesday, Jun 29 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in .
TL countdown synchronizes with your device local time and not with the TL server time. It might be inaccurate.
Just noticed that GlowingBear isn't listed here.
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I don't think anyone can be the scum but jealous TBH (tt maybe maybe)
But I'm not wholly convinced jealous is scum
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EPT
