Shin Megami Tensei: The Devil Inside Mafia

On February 12 2016 09:16 disformation wrote:

You heard the man.

On February 16 2016 06:04 sicklucker wrote:
Dear diary

Today I woke up exited to play a game of mafia! Then I looked at the playerlist .. and I was how do you say it. Scared of spam and having alot to read. I also had alot of anxiety about jat calling me names i'm a very fragile emotional person. I hope gb has time because last game he was useless and now I here hes not going have much time again.

On February 16 2016 06:06 rsoultin wrote:
lol so dorky tina just realized deadline's at 3 i'll still have class tues/thurs

oh well \o/

On February 16 2016 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Oh Palmar, what would I ever do without you.

The Shining, what happened to the can't play on Mondays thing?

On February 17 2016 12:03 Trfel wrote:
Like, right after this, The Shining vanished until I asked him a question. And then vanished again.

It feels like his will to play, his desire to be involved, stopped after he got townread. See what I'm getting at?

On February 17 2016 12:08 Tumblewood wrote:
Shining didn't lose desire to be involved, he lost desire to exist.

On February 17 2016 13:43 rsoultin wrote:


also explained bresh, but basically it's a metaread in that when he's looking at things from all sides and voicing the opposite viewpoint (i.e. devil's advocate) he's pretty much always town...plus just a joy to have around but that's another matter altogether ^^

-pokes- i want to know why my nemesis is townreading me...has the world turned inside-out and upside-down?

-throws things at shining- he's got a point. suck it up. you were around when you said you wouldn't be, but then poofed, so ye. i'm more interested in your reads once you catch up with the thread of dinky

On February 17 2016 13:58 Trfel wrote:
First, I didn't call you useless

Second, if I were convinced you were scum, I'd be voting for you

Third, smileys are great

Fourth, please, go ahead and carry me, that would also be great Not quite as great as smileys, though

Fifth, you're misrepresenting my argument, and I've already said what I think about that But it's fine, since I don't have a very strong argument anyway, please feel free to do your own thing

On February 17 2016 14:21 rsoultin wrote:
o.0 when exactly did i townread shining?

On February 17 2016 14:24 Trfel wrote:
I'm assuming that if you call someone a hero for town, that you mean that they are town?

Even the very worst mafia performances generally wouldn't be considered heroic for town.

I..... can't possibly see how this can be in contention? What's going on?

On February 17 2016 14:37 sicklucker wrote:


did he mention it before or after i brought it up?

On February 17 2016 14:40 rsoultin wrote:
nh

lol is it awful that i'm more happy with the later reads than the first ones? the play-by-play summaries of shape and tt were painful -flicks shining-

also -shakes fist at damdy- i want a scott filter!

lemme see if i can find the post again...it's basically that i'm used to scott scumreading me come hell or high water for being spammy -_- which ye i'm failing at again this game so i have no clue how it's different this time. he always thinks my "spam" is scummy or at best anti-town

On February 17 2016 14:42 rsoultin wrote:


ye no explanation that's what i remembered

On February 17 2016 14:45 rsoultin wrote:


blah posting this late is making me lose my train of thought

palmar i agree on more or less...i don't see him as a d1 lynch more because of who he is than anything else

tt was underwhelming for me, so that kinda lines up if i didn't microsleep too much through the summary lol ><

your reads seem okayish tbh (more or less close to where i'm sitting) though the play-by-play gives me pause just cuz...ye, you and jeering about your shit wall of texts before that i have a tendency to townread you for when you're scum >< evil one

On February 17 2016 14:49 rsoultin wrote:


-_-

> doesn't want to give him an out
> proceeds to give him an out

i already asked for an explanation

On February 17 2016 17:20 Eden1892 wrote:
Don't like Shining's reads now that I bothered to read the larger post.

Not with the conclusions -- nobody is screaming lock-scum to me either -- but it felt like he came to null/null-ish conclusions about several players despite posting enough info to come to a firmer conclusion.

Like comparing his reads to mine, since we both ended up not having a lot of clear suspects, I make it clear what I find suspicious or not suspicious about people, and what I find validating or not validating about people. People don't do scummy and townie things, or at least, I don't think they have yet in this game. Look at this...



Basically, he lists a lot of reasons to like Tictock. He likes Tictock's town reads, and maybe only has real issues with how Tictock came to the GB read. But then he says that because Tictock doesn't have clear scumreads, that Tictock is a scum lean? I don't get how a guy can be considered to be pretty townie based off of having a lot of reasonable townreads, but then can end up being net-scummy due to not having clear scumreads.

It'd seem to me that you would conclude that the unclear scum reads is a big red flag, mafia can just make up reasons to townread people (especially if you agree with those reads and think the people being townread are actually town, then they're just saying correct things which is easy to do), and so the townreads don't mean anything and he's clear scum.

Or, you would say that the townreads are a great reason to townread him early, because they make sense and show that he's engaged with the game. At that point, it would be more reasonable to assume that a relative lack of scumreads is the byproduct of an early game without anybody doing anything obviously suspicious, and is NAI.

But surely you can't just say both things and call it virtually a wash (slight scum lean)? If either of them didn't matter you would conclude the other one is important and read Tictock accordingly. If both didn't matter then you would just not have a read. And they're not really constructed in a way that you can think both do matter -- since both of them are good reasons to read someone a certain way, and both lead to divergent conclusions, it stands to reason that one of them is wrong and thus shouldn't matter, and that, coming to this realization, you would review the player and decide which one matters.

I felt several of his reads that conclude null/null-ish have similar issues: he describes various behaviors by the player that look like they would be alignment-indicative, but they conclude opposite things, so instead of digging into the players in more depth and detail to resolve the divergent conclusions, he just calls them "null" overall even though they shouldn't be null. He's cited enough behaviors to come to some conclusion about a player, but then manages not to do so.

Coupled with the posting style -- few, longer posts, with minimal proactive interaction -- I'm actually inclined to think this guy could be a good lynch.

On February 18 2016 01:43 Shapelog wrote:

Why am I town lol?
Any ways to Rsoul, I feel moot about shining, his read post was very werid. But with the way his votes came upon him, I doubt he is actually scum.
Seems like the guy who mafia wants to lynch. IF you caught my drift.

On February 18 2016 02:49 Trfel wrote:
Shapelog is mafia

He scumread me, then when I said I was suspicious of him for not doing anything, that it's purely his fault of he gets lynched.

And then all of the other reasons.

##vote Shapelog
I mean, this is like a swiss cheese vote, but whatever

On February 18 2016 03:24 sicklucker wrote:


you reminded me last game you answered your own fucking question rofl

On February 18 2016 03:27 Shapelog wrote:
*Sigh* Kush I believed in you :/
Oh well, At this point I guess who I think should get lynch does not matter. Not changing my vote thou to a counter wagon that will just end up hammering a Town.

I am just going to post reads at this point. Put my death to good use.

On February 18 2016 03:36 Trfel wrote:
And someone else sees it

If you look at the vote count, it's even more weird. The other wagons are all at basically the same vote count, he can make his own counterwagon.

On February 18 2016 03:42 Tumblewood wrote:
No one's acting definitively scummy, so I'm going to POE this vote.

The 'Do Not Lynch' List
Eden, for putting a lot of effort into finding scum and moving the day along productively.
Trfel, for similar reasons. Also, I stand by that mafia would not have gotten into an argument like that earlier in the game.
Tictock, for making clear and useful points.

The 'Bad Lynch' List
Rsoul, for helping in a trolly manner.
Palmar, for being overconfident and having huge changes of heart.
Kush, but I don't know why.
Breshke, for making clear and insightful points, though sparse.

The 'Wait And See' List
GB, Scott, and The Shining for showing up late.

That leaves us SL and... other SL. I keep seeing things in sick's play that are scummy, but then you all assure me that those are just normal things for him. Sick's defense amounts to "don't lynch me because that's a bad idea / I'm an easy townread."
Shape has been acting similar to his last game as scum. I had the privilege of being in the scum QT with him, and his gameplan was this: play the "too scummy to be scum" card, and spam the thread (especially with votes) to make it harder to follow.
I think both are valid options for a lynch; whoever makes the better case in the next two hours dodges my vote.

On February 18 2016 03:43 Shapelog wrote:

OH HE IS A COUNTERWAGON???
##UnvoteVote:Saltlicker

On February 18 2016 03:47 sicklucker wrote:


if im mafia and your town why do i jump off when nothing has changed... hum?

On February 18 2016 03:52 sicklucker wrote:


you gave me the proper info to reach a good conclusion thanks. hows this wrong?

On February 18 2016 04:06 Shapelog wrote:
You know what, I actually want to vote with my counterwagon then against. Palmar has done nothing and is not here. And when questioned by it (by me) he said that we should not judge him for it.

##;unvote, ##Vote: Palmar

On February 18 2016 04:15 sicklucker wrote:


tumbleweed is looking pretty juicy.. I didnt even notice he was in the game

On February 18 2016 04:41 Shapelog wrote:
Do I have to claim or can I wait till I post after my read list?

On February 18 2016 05:51 Breshke wrote:


Yes but not enough time to discuss it. Didn't like his posts towards trefel
Why are you not in favor of a scott lynch?

On February 18 2016 05:57 rsoultin wrote:


-flings shoes at-

answer me...if you really wanted to make your vote count why the fuck did you vote a non-existent wagon and then say you were going to bugger off?

On February 18 2016 06:18 rsoultin wrote:


???

On February 18 2016 06:30 rsoultin wrote:


only you voted for tumble long before tumble voted for palmar lol >< bs meter alert

both of these things happened AFTER your vote on tumble

On February 18 2016 06:31 Eden1892 wrote:
Tbh not really interested in defending the palmar lynch. My vote was not very well reasoned out. I just felt it was decent enough to consolidate on after I couldn't get Yung Shining on tha blocc

On February 18 2016 06:53 rsoultin wrote:


hn...okay, could be

don't leave the area lol ><

On February 18 2016 05:24 Eden1892 wrote:
Lets lynch Shining.

Give me time to analyze the power role shenanigans. Don't try to resolve that without me. ESP since we might get more info about those shenanigans with the nightkill

On February 18 2016 11:13 Trfel wrote:
GlowingBear, no idea. I really don't like your off-wagon vote, though, but I don't think that's enough reason to scumread you. You actually did feel quite invested in the nooniansoong wagon. I'm still pretty unhappy with my read on you in Outlaw Mafia, though, I'll probably just sheep rsoultin on you if I'm not confident (which I won't be).

The Shining, I did meta read you a bit, but in this case the off-wagon "push" for Tumblewood feels more important.

And I know that my scum reads aren't the best I'll be pretty happy if one is correct.

The difference between GlowingBear and The Shining is that GlowingBear's push makes some sense, while The Shining's doesn't, GlowingBear seemed to care about it while The Shining didn't, and The Shining had more opportunities to be inspiring while I'm not really sure what he's done this game, other than his Tumblewood suspicion. The only real reason I have to townread The Shining is meta, based on both post length (shorter posts = town) and his anger at being scumread.

On February 18 2016 11:32 nooniansoong wrote:
scumlist
ticktock
GB
scott
breshke
rsoul

On February 18 2016 12:14 nooniansoong wrote:

Probably Scott. I'm a believer in shooting inactive people.

On February 18 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:
The Shining:

Can you please explain your scumread on Tumblewood again? Like, why did you initially read him as mafia?

I've looked through your filter and I'm still having trouble understanding this, sorry. I'm not seeing what your argument is.

On February 18 2016 13:17 Trfel wrote:
I'll take a look at those things later. Thanks for answering.

Anyway, I'm really liking that point that you brought up about nooniansoong.

On February 18 2016 14:10 Eden1892 wrote:

brb crying to my parents about how scared this makes me feel

On February 18 2016 14:21 Eden1892 wrote:

Hate this response. We should have lynched this guy instead.

Note that this explanation doesn't actually respond to the criticism I made. He basically says that the reason he wrote in his reads list that Tictock was doing townie things but was still a net scum lean was because he was writing the read as he read through the filter, and when he got to the end he had decided Tictock was a scumlean. But if you got to the end and decided he was a scumlean, why didn't you go back and justify that scumlean against the evidence you cited of him possibly being town?

If someone starts off reading source material about a subject and believes A, but realizes as they're reading more of the material that they actually believe not-A, then they surely would be interested in resolving the discrepancy between their initial belief in A and their current belief in not-A. If I start off reading a philosophical work believing God as a material entity doesn't exist due to XYZ reasons, and I finish reading the work and conclude God does exist for ABC reasons, I would need to find an explanation for why XYZ aren't valid reasons not to believe in God.

Shining does not appear to explore this line of inquiry at all let alone explain it to us. This lack of curiosity makes me inclined to believe that he doesn't actually care what Tictock's alignment is and just needed to cover the facts of what Tictock did and come to some conclusion that sounded like it made sense -- in other words, a read coming from mafia.

That Shining gets combative and asserts a false dilemma at the end (you can either contradict yourself or give a read without explanation -- you cannot simply give a unified scum read of a person that explains away facets of someone's behavior which is townie to you) seals the deal for me. He is unreasonably antagonistic and irritable when questioned for his lack of thoroughness, when I would expect a townie posed with this criticism to review Tictock again and decide definitively how he feels about Tictock.

On February 18 2016 14:22 Eden1892 wrote:

Who's the one taunting who? Your entire post I quoted was empty threats.

Then more insults when called out for it.

On February 18 2016 15:11 Eden1892 wrote:
I'm going to do my best to ignore the parts that were unreasonable, but you need to cut this attitude out, because it's completely uncalled for.


I think there is one salient point in there I'll try to address without the things around it...



The way I read the initial reads post, this:



looked like Shining was saying Tictock was townie for making these points about these reads.

I guess if he's saying that Tictock is a little more likely to give these reads as mafia, you can still say all this, but when I'm reading it the conclusion I'm being led to is "Tictock is town."

Maybe I should have asked first -- since you conclude that Tictock leans scum (and thus was just handing out these townreads to get town credit or be active or whatever have you), why do you think that explanation is more likely than the one where Tictock is town, identifies some other townies early but just doesn't have a good scumread at that point in time?

On February 19 2016 03:31 nooniansoong wrote:
Tt is still mafia though. Nothing townie in his filter. How tinfoil looks takes. I know he likes to tinfoil as scum I think. Opportunistic scum reads which I'll explain later.

On February 19 2016 06:26 Breshke wrote:
So you hard claim the investigative role?

Also why are you so sure you watched the Vigi?

Also you out who it is first to confirm your role

On February 19 2016 06:51 Breshke wrote:


no he said he got nor esult, I.E. there is a godfather who sent the kill

On February 19 2016 06:58 nooniansoong wrote:


What is your most recent scum game?

On February 19 2016 07:01 Shapelog wrote:
I am here for like 5 mins. If you find it hard to that i got a no result. Think about it logically. What Vig in their right mind would Shoot Eden N1? And between the 2, who was the easier ML? Eden or SL? Why would mafia decide to shoot SL over Eden? Because they did not shoot SL, they shot Eden.

On February 19 2016 07:54 Tumblewood wrote:

What? My play sucked in NSM XIX

On February 17 2016 14:37 The Shining wrote:
I'm gonna go play Ark, I'll probably check back in once or twice in the next hr before bed, but I'll drop a vote before class at 10 am tomorrow morning EST. I'd like my scumleans to give me some interaction and responses before I jump the gun on any of em. Cheers.

On February 18 2016 14:57 The Shining wrote:


Seriously? I pointed out that you haven't done what you said you were going to do(which you still haven't done) and pointed out something odd I found in your filter that was literally one post apart. Things that make me view you less as strong town and more as opportunistic and possible scum. These are not empty threats. They are comments on your gameplay.

But instead of explaining them or trying to act rational, you get combative and sarcastic and antagonistic. Something that you say is scum indicative of me, but I'm supposed to believe it's townie when coming from you?. And please point out where these "insults" are. I've been very careful this game to not be my usual firebrand self for fear of a TL Ban after my warning last game. Saying I insulted you up to this point is false and a discredit to me.

On February 19 2016 08:29 Breshke wrote:
Shining isn't excited enough to be the vig. Someone just claimed his role he would be more up and about than he is.

Also you can't reaction check a vigi so he is scum

On February 20 2016 04:12 Tictock wrote:


Can you elaborate on this part Shining?

Kus Shape had already claimed, and it was pretty obv that one of the shots was a Vig. So wouldn't scum already have all the info they need?

I agree his fakeclaim was pretty bad but I really don't see any gain for scum to make that play. Town makes pretty stupid fake claims sometimes, like Damdred fake CC'd my claim as GS in Outlaw kus he was convinced I was lying and was scum (I was in fact the GS).

On February 20 2016 04:26 nooniansoong wrote:


I'd be happy because this game would become interesting.

On February 20 2016 05:10 nooniansoong wrote:


scott/gb/tt why is that impossible?

On February 20 2016 06:12 nooniansoong wrote:

why is it improbable?
id look through your filter but it's kind of dense.

On February 20 2016 06:17 rsoultin wrote:
gb prob is scum but not for the claim

#awesomestsoul

On February 20 2016 06:41 nooniansoong wrote:


1. girls can be bros, you want me to call you sista? that's just weird.
2. i thought you were metaing me, saying that as town i'm not that invovled, therefore my involvement is looking scummy. So I misinterpreted you there.2
3. I suspect you haven't seen me as that involved because you usually start talking late at night, and I usually go to bed 10:30ish eastern. Whenever I wake up I see all these posts from you, trfel, shining and I'm like damn I wish I could have been there for that party. All I have for interactions is shittyass shapelog at lunch time.

On February 20 2016 06:53 nooniansoong wrote:


ezreason - ok I guess, but I think Scott could easily afk vote on his scumbud.
thought out reason - Your ezreason was better. Of course the day is goign to be slow if 2 scum are afk scott/gb. Scum isn't perfectly fine, they just aren't active.

On February 20 2016 06:58 rsoultin wrote:


lol actually i've been around all day and only came on for this to play voice ^^ i've been trying not to use the game to procrastinate

which results in...

well, not getting anything done here or for school! \o/ (i suppose you can't play with us? everyone else is invited though, lol ><)

On February 21 2016 06:37 Shapelog wrote:

Breshke is the only off wagon. Which he was not here to change his vote?