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On February 18 2016 06:30 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 06:27 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 06:18 rsoultin wrote:On February 18 2016 05:48 The Shining wrote:
Actually Palmar isn't bad either, he's done nothing towny and he could just be getting a pass because he posted direct stuff and fuxkwd off after ??? And then my stronger read Tumble voted him. And GB made a point about how votes piled on Palmar. only you voted for tumble long before tumble voted for palmar lol >< bs meter alert both of these things happened AFTER your vote on tumble
No voting for my stronger read happened before anything else. Even though I didn't think Palmar wasn't that bad of a lynch, he wasn't my preferred lynch. When I considered possibly switching, Tumble voted and GB made the point he made. It's pretty simple.
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On February 18 2016 06:31 Eden1892 wrote:
Tbh not really interested in defending the palmar lynch. My vote was not very well reasoned out. I just felt it was decent enough to consolidate on after I couldn't get Yung Shining on tha blocc
You still havent even acknowledged my response to you. And nothing about your case on me makes me lock scum. if you're town, you should probably reconsider and actually think objectively about who you're pushing and what their response is. But my town read is pretty weakened on you now after your showing up Just to push me before lynching another town in Palmar.
I'm really curious in what you have to say about my response
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On February 18 2016 06:53 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 06:50 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 06:30 rsoultin wrote:On February 18 2016 06:27 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 06:18 rsoultin wrote:On February 18 2016 05:48 The Shining wrote:
Actually Palmar isn't bad either, he's done nothing towny and he could just be getting a pass because he posted direct stuff and fuxkwd off after ??? And then my stronger read Tumble voted him. And GB made a point about how votes piled on Palmar. only you voted for tumble long before tumble voted for palmar lol >< bs meter alert both of these things happened AFTER your vote on tumble No voting for my stronger read happened before anything else. Even though I didn't think Palmar wasn't that bad of a lynch, he wasn't my preferred lynch. When I considered possibly switching, Tumble voted and GB made the point he made. It's pretty simple. hn...okay, could be don't leave the area lol ><
I'm technically not even allowed to be posting at work anymore but I was interested in the flip and felt I should answer you. I'll be in and out when I can until I get home.
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Rso thinks the question from Shape to Tumble about his read and vote not lining up is good. Tumble is my main scumread. I'm RSos top scum read for something similar but she's ignoring Tumble.
Godreads.
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That...is outstanding. I wanna see mine 
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I also would be a lot less suspicious if more of this was original thought vs summary. Like these notes are good and all, but what are the conclusions? Either alignment could do this
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I'd also still really like Tumble to explain that flop on Palmar.
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Maybe I should just go back to omgusing and bming again because I'm dying a little inside every time I get scum thrown on me for hilariously bad reasons that don't make me scum.
Or maybe I should just pick random posts and make one liners on them and take pics of them. That oughta work, huh?
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Trfel why are you so confident on a one game meta read on Tumble? And on the subject of meta, why haven't you tried to meta read me when you were in my most recent scum game and a numerous amount of my town games?
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On February 18 2016 05:24 Eden1892 wrote:
Lets lynch Shining.
Give me time to analyze the power role shenanigans. Don't try to resolve that without me. ESP since we might get more info about those shenanigans with the nightkill
Still no power role shenanigans analysis. Went from not having a stance on Palmmar when rso asked to saying Palmar is a better lynch than both SLs and admitted to not reading since the night before.
I also can't get a single Damn interaction or response from the guy who wants to lynch me off of one point. Seems legit.
Eden continues to fall down my green list.
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On February 18 2016 11:13 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, no idea. I really don't like your off-wagon vote, though, but I don't think that's enough reason to scumread you. You actually did feel quite invested in the nooniansoong wagon. I'm still pretty unhappy with my read on you in Outlaw Mafia, though, I'll probably just sheep rsoultin on you if I'm not confident (which I won't be). The Shining, I did meta read you a bit, but in this case the off-wagon "push" for Tumblewood feels more important. And I know that my scum reads aren't the best I'll be pretty happy if one is correct. The difference between GlowingBear and The Shining is that GlowingBear's push makes some sense, while The Shining's doesn't, GlowingBear seemed to care about it while The Shining didn't, and The Shining had more opportunities to be inspiring while I'm not really sure what he's done this game, other than his Tumblewood suspicion. The only real reason I have to townread The Shining is meta, based on both post length (shorter posts = town) and his anger at being scumread.
Trfel parroting RSo ftw. This hard align is starting to trip me out. Do tell exactly what opportunities you think I had to be more "inspiring." You are hedging on a scumread on me because of meta reasons that could make me town, but you are sold on a one game meta making Tumble town. This doesn't line up.
You are also pushing my vote/push but ignoring Tumble voting Palmar off of his "bad d1 lynch" list.
See it's this type of double standard shit that really irks me. How do I get scummed when someone does the same thing and you town them? You're not even addressing Edens case or my response to scum me. Hm.
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On February 18 2016 11:32 nooniansoong wrote:
scumlist
ticktock
GB
scott
breshke
rsoul
Hmmm. Hypothetical. You have a gun. Who do you shoot?
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Hm. Tumble is destroying my read on him. The first set I was in denial but meh. This really don't look half bad. Tumble, you don't believe Shapes blue claim?
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On February 18 2016 12:14 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 11:50 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 11:32 nooniansoong wrote:
scumlist
ticktock
GB
scott
breshke
rsoul
Hmmm. Hypothetical. You have a gun. Who do you shoot? Probably Scott. I'm a believer in shooting inactive people.
So why didn't you vote Scott over GB? Did you already go over this?
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On February 18 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:
The Shining:
Can you please explain your scumread on Tumblewood again? Like, why did you initially read him as mafia?
I've looked through your filter and I'm still having trouble understanding this, sorry. I'm not seeing what your argument is.
Tldr: I found his first unexplained reads post weird. I like explanations. He accused Shapelog of meta reading him off of one game and that it was bad, but then he does the same thing to Shape before the blue claim. He has Palmar on a bad d1 lynch list but then lynches Palmar. He accused me of not existing d1 but then managed to disappear himself for a while.
I'll be honest, though, this read is losing a bit of steam after rereading those notes. His scum list is a bit funky, though, since I don't think GB and SL can be scum together here
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On February 18 2016 13:17 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 13:11 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 12:59 Trfel wrote:
The Shining:
Can you please explain your scumread on Tumblewood again? Like, why did you initially read him as mafia?
I've looked through your filter and I'm still having trouble understanding this, sorry. I'm not seeing what your argument is. Tldr: I found his first unexplained reads post weird. I like explanations. He accused Shapelog of meta reading him off of one game and that it was bad, but then he does the same thing to Shape before the blue claim. He has Palmar on a bad d1 lynch list but then lynches Palmar. He accused me of not existing d1 but then managed to disappear himself for a while. I'll be honest, though, this read is losing a bit of steam after rereading those notes. His scum list is a bit funky, though, since I don't think GB and SL can be scum together here I'll take a look at those things later. Thanks for answering. Anyway, I'm really liking that point that you brought up about nooniansoong.
Yep.
And ye I'd like an answer, too, it just piqued my interest.
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On February 18 2016 14:10 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 11:20 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 05:24 Eden1892 wrote:
Lets lynch Shining.
Give me time to analyze the power role shenanigans. Don't try to resolve that without me. ESP since we might get more info about those shenanigans with the nightkill Still no power role shenanigans analysis. Went from not having a stance on Palmmar when rso asked to saying Palmar is a better lynch than both SLs and admitted to not reading since the night before. I also can't get a single Damn interaction or response from the guy who wants to lynch me off of one point. Seems legit. Eden continues to fall down my green list. brb crying to my parents about how scared this makes me feel
Pointless taunt is pointless. How about you actually do what you said you were going to do and stop heading towards being useless now that you've got people TRing you?
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On February 18 2016 14:21 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 02:41 The Shining wrote:On February 17 2016 17:20 Eden1892 wrote:Don't like Shining's reads now that I bothered to read the larger post. Not with the conclusions -- nobody is screaming lock-scum to me either -- but it felt like he came to null/null-ish conclusions about several players despite posting enough info to come to a firmer conclusion. Like comparing his reads to mine, since we both ended up not having a lot of clear suspects, I make it clear what I find suspicious or not suspicious about people, and what I find validating or not validating about people. People don't do scummy and townie things, or at least, I don't think they have yet in this game. Look at this... Tictock - I kinda liked TT for town at the beginning tbh, but his recent posting worried me and made me backtrack. His early posts were short but the tone seemed pretty relaxed from the jokes with Shapelog, while also mixing some good posts, mainly the one about Trfel and his TR on him. I'm still working on my Trfel read due to how he's treating me, but I will say I really liked TT's Eden read and see pretty much what he sees. His GB read seemed pretty accurate, too, I've also played with a lackadaiscal, non-caring GB town multiple times before which has ended in GB being prime lynchbait. I could probably see where he's coming from, though I wish GB would actually play. What I don't like is TT immediately calling his GB read shit because of a one-liner from Kush in which Kush didn't even explain WHY that TR was bad. Also a red flag is the fact that I can't really find where or who TT is scumreading. The closest thing is a list of people that need to post more, myself included. I feel like TT would be more confident and focused on finding scum after his last good performance. The line "I don't have any strong scumreads but I'm pretty confident we'll hit scum" feels off. Slight scumread here, since imo scum is a lot better at giving townreads as opposed to fabricating scumreads. Basically, he lists a lot of reasons to like Tictock. He likes Tictock's town reads, and maybe only has real issues with how Tictock came to the GB read. But then he says that because Tictock doesn't have clear scumreads, that Tictock is a scum lean? I don't get how a guy can be considered to be pretty townie based off of having a lot of reasonable townreads, but then can end up being net-scummy due to not having clear scumreads. It'd seem to me that you would conclude that the unclear scum reads is a big red flag, mafia can just make up reasons to townread people (especially if you agree with those reads and think the people being townread are actually town, then they're just saying correct things which is easy to do), and so the townreads don't mean anything and he's clear scum. Or, you would say that the townreads are a great reason to townread him early, because they make sense and show that he's engaged with the game. At that point, it would be more reasonable to assume that a relative lack of scumreads is the byproduct of an early game without anybody doing anything obviously suspicious, and is NAI. But surely you can't just say both things and call it virtually a wash (slight scum lean)? If either of them didn't matter you would conclude the other one is important and read Tictock accordingly. If both didn't matter then you would just not have a read. And they're not really constructed in a way that you can think both do matter -- since both of them are good reasons to read someone a certain way, and both lead to divergent conclusions, it stands to reason that one of them is wrong and thus shouldn't matter, and that, coming to this realization, you would review the player and decide which one matters. I felt several of his reads that conclude null/null-ish have similar issues: he describes various behaviors by the player that look like they would be alignment-indicative, but they conclude opposite things, so instead of digging into the players in more depth and detail to resolve the divergent conclusions, he just calls them "null" overall even though they shouldn't be null. He's cited enough behaviors to come to some conclusion about a player, but then manages not to do so. Coupled with the posting style -- few, longer posts, with minimal proactive interaction -- I'm actually inclined to think this guy could be a good lynch. Meh this a really large post to try and convince yourself to lynch me. Mostly all of those reads were progressively being typed and made as I made it through filters and I like to think out loud. I didn't feel like erasing what I had said about Tictock so far so I just added as my thoughts progressed. It's a progressing read. Early in a game, I wouldn't expect him or many others to have a strong scumread. But as I continued reading, I found more townreads, some really simple, but no scumreads, which started the red flag. And i did decide that the overall content of his filter warranted more of a scumlean whereas had I been around, early, he would've been a townlean that developed into a scumlean once I realized he was lacking scumreads. All I did was make my read progression from one way to the other transparent as I was making it through his filter. Next time I'll just make a current read and not explain it since that seems to be okay on d1. Hate this response. We should have lynched this guy instead. Note that this explanation doesn't actually respond to the criticism I made. He basically says that the reason he wrote in his reads list that Tictock was doing townie things but was still a net scum lean was because he was writing the read as he read through the filter, and when he got to the end he had decided Tictock was a scumlean. But if you got to the end and decided he was a scumlean, why didn't you go back and justify that scumlean against the evidence you cited of him possibly being town? If someone starts off reading source material about a subject and believes A, but realizes as they're reading more of the material that they actually believe not-A, then they surely would be interested in resolving the discrepancy between their initial belief in A and their current belief in not-A. If I start off reading a philosophical work believing God as a material entity doesn't exist due to XYZ reasons, and I finish reading the work and conclude God does exist for ABC reasons, I would need to find an explanation for why XYZ aren't valid reasons not to believe in God. Shining does not appear to explore this line of inquiry at all let alone explain it to us. This lack of curiosity makes me inclined to believe that he doesn't actually care what Tictock's alignment is and just needed to cover the facts of what Tictock did and come to some conclusion that sounded like it made sense -- in other words, a read coming from mafia. That Shining gets combative and asserts a false dilemma at the end (you can either contradict yourself or give a read without explanation -- you cannot simply give a unified scum read of a person that explains away facets of someone's behavior which is townie to you) seals the deal for me. He is unreasonably antagonistic and irritable when questioned for his lack of thoroughness, when I would expect a townie posed with this criticism to review Tictock again and decide definitively how he feels about Tictock.
Hate this response. We should force this guy to make posts that are actually readable and fully relevant to the game. I can see there is going to be absolutely no talking sensibly to you and drawing this out is only going to get me TL banned because I've already got a warning from dealing with irrational and bad "vets" like you, so do with this post what you will and try and get me lynched, do w.e the hell you want.
You're either terrible or scum and neither bodes well for town with these mass posts that really make only make one to two relevant points. You're just shitting up the thread. You devoted an entire paragraph to shit that has nothing to do with the game. "Let's throw in random letters, numbers and God to make this post nice and big and cool looking to reiterate the exact same thing I said before and after this fluffy paragraph." Besides that, you're picking on ONE POINT that absolutely doesn't make me scum.
You say I don't "justify the scumlean vs the evidence I provided of him being town" while I was reading through everyone's filter in the game. I very clearly gave reasons for why he could be town and started out as a townread but as I got to the end of his filter, the ZERO scumreads raised a red flag. The "evidence I cited for him being town" became evidence of being possibly scummy because, as I pointed out, scum are much more easily capable of handing out easy townreads like he did. Like, what I LITERALLY did is LITERALLY what you're saying I didn't do. Wtf?
You also obviously didn't catch the sarcasm in what you called "a false dilemma" that I assert. And what's cute is you've never played with me before, from what I can remember. Combative? Antagonistic? Irritable? Thanks for naming some of the top 3 towntells for me, it is much appreciated. You have this narrative and expectation of what a town is supposed to do in reaction to you and how I didn't do that but you have no basis for knowing what my reaction is supposed to be like as town.
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On February 18 2016 14:22 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 14:20 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 14:10 Eden1892 wrote:On February 18 2016 11:20 The Shining wrote:On February 18 2016 05:24 Eden1892 wrote:
Lets lynch Shining.
Give me time to analyze the power role shenanigans. Don't try to resolve that without me. ESP since we might get more info about those shenanigans with the nightkill Still no power role shenanigans analysis. Went from not having a stance on Palmmar when rso asked to saying Palmar is a better lynch than both SLs and admitted to not reading since the night before. I also can't get a single Damn interaction or response from the guy who wants to lynch me off of one point. Seems legit. Eden continues to fall down my green list. brb crying to my parents about how scared this makes me feel Pointless taunt is pointless. Who's the one taunting who? Your entire post I quoted was empty threats. Then more insults when called out for it.
Seriously? I pointed out that you haven't done what you said you were going to do(which you still haven't done) and pointed out something odd I found in your filter that was literally one post apart. Things that make me view you less as strong town and more as opportunistic and possible scum. These are not empty threats. They are comments on your gameplay.
But instead of explaining them or trying to act rational, you get combative and sarcastic and antagonistic. Something that you say is scum indicative of me, but I'm supposed to believe it's townie when coming from you?. And please point out where these "insults" are. I've been very careful this game to not be my usual firebrand self for fear of a TL Ban after my warning last game. Saying I insulted you up to this point is false and a discredit to me.
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One last thing on Eden before I go to bed. Outside of a bad(eden said it himself) vote on Palmar after having no stance on him a post before, Eden has literally spoken about nothing except me. And with a blue claim, a bunch of reads flying around, a mislynch occurring D1 with a 4-4 vote count, how is it possible he's literally talking about nothing else?
Also Breshke ftw on that last bit of his last post, I didn't catch that. That's pretty hypocritical of Tumble. And that post about Palmar being a reasonable lynch. I still don't know how he went from bad lynch to reasonable lynch after Palmar did pretty much nothing in between the posts.
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EPT
